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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

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  • I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

    The reason I am posting this is only because of the many recent threads about all the overall "Conseco game experience"

    I took someone to the Pistons game last Saturday night who has never been to a Pacers game before, never even watched them on TV before, does not know any players names, wasn't even sure if the Pacers were in the white uniforms or the blue uniforms. He is not a sports fan, never watches any sports - he grew up in Brazil.

    You might be asking why would I want someone like that to go to a game with me. Besides the fact that he is a really good friend and I figured he would enjoy it, I also was curious to see his reaction to the game and to the overall Conseco experience.

    I did not prepare him for anything prior to getting there and unfortunitely we arrived really late at about the 9 minute mark of the 2nd quarter. (we had to go to Bazbaeux pizza before and they were really packed - first time he's ever had their pizza and loved it, up until then he hated all American pizza - he just moved here from Brazil about 18 months ago).

    OK, sorry I'm rambling. He loved the overall atmosphere (helped that there was a big crowd that was into the game for the most part) he loved Conseco - said it just feels good to be there. He enjoyed the slam dunk display between the 3rd and 4th quarter - overall he thought Boomer was a waste of time, he liked the Pacemates, he couldn't figure out why all the noise during the Fex Ex truck race, he enjoyed looking at all the people.

    Within a few minutes he said something about the music played while the ball was in play. He noticed that when the Pacers had the ball the music was upbeat, but when the Pistons had the ball he said the music was ominous. I asked him if he liked the music during play, he thought it would be better without it as it was distracting and annoying

    He really had no clue what was going on basketball wise, but seemed to enjoy the game and wants to go back. He said it is such a fun atmosphere and such a family atmosphere.

    It was interesting and good for me to see things through his eyes a little to see how the casual or non-fan sees things. Sometimes I figure everyone is as big of a fan as we are here.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-02-2008, 12:29 PM.

  • #2
    Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

    What, he didn't scream and run out of the building when 24 thugs poured out of the tunnels?


    To me his opinion just fuels my campaign against the "casual" fans. I still call them out as liars, nothing short of that. They talk a lot of crap about the team, but in terms of family entertainment the actual games are still a pretty good deal at upper level prices.


    Your friend wasn't watching with a bunch of baggage he brought to the arena. The same people that will go to Victory field with no idea of the background behind any of the Indians players (ghetto, criminal, whatever) and rave about the family experience for $8 and parking a lot farther away will rant uncontrollably about how horrible the Pacers are.

    Do the Indians have to win to draw fans? Nope.

    And honestly for all we know half the team has been in trouble because the local police/news wouldn't even know who they were if they were busted.

    What, was it an accident that the news found out about Shawne's arrest? Were they just driving by? That's a tip-off phone call by someone who A) knew the player B) thought the press needed to know.

    Or perhaps a reporter just scans the arrest records every night. If that's the case it's still the same point, that reporter wouldn't know the name of the starting RF for the Indians even if he saw it.

    So I suspect that ambiguity has a lot more to do with how wholesome the Indians are. Wins and cost and convenience are moot IMO. I've done and enjoyed both endless times. Different but equal.

    Besides there is a LOT more to do on a summer night than on a winter night. The "competition for your dollar" angle is crazy.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

      I think your Indians analysis is interesting. I really do believe the Indians experience is based on no expectations and just wanting an entertaining day at all ballpark. And it delivers.
      The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

        Originally posted by ABADays View Post
        I think your Indians analysis is interesting. I really do believe the Indians experience is based on no expectations and just wanting an entertaining day at all ballpark. And it delivers.
        BINGO!

        If more people looked at going to the games open-mindedly, viewing it as an entertaining event for the family, they'd actually have a good time.

        Cool story btw, Buck. I've done the same thing several times with people from Cincy who have never seen an NBA game. Every single one said they enjoyed it and said it's a lot more fun than watching the game on TV (they were casual fans of basketball, however).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

          Baseball is not basketball though. The difference in intensity is one of the differences in atmosphere that speaks to why the level of expectations are different. And cheap seats can get you fairly close to the action at Victory Field.

          I'd be curious to know how UB's friend would feel about the experience if they were in the balcony (or was this in the balcony?). Reason being, when people talk about the balcony being a bargain, maybe it is when there's a buzz about the team and just being there and being a part of it is an experience... But I'm not sure that translates to the upper decks when things are like they are now. The casual fan isn't going to feel much intensity in the balcony if the team is playing badly or lethargic... or if the overall mood of the arena is down (as it is in down years). If the team is playing with some passion that might translate to the lower bowl fairly well... but if the lower bowl is only 2/3rds full and the upper decks are sporadic at best, I don't know if it translates well up there.

          And I don't think the forced "Get on your feet Pacer fans!" are anything but practically insulting to many. Did your friend have any comments about that?

          -Bball
          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

          ------

          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

          -John Wooden

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

            Originally posted by Bball View Post
            And I don't think the forced "Get on your feet Pacer fans!" are anything but practically insulting to many. Did your friend have any comments about that?

            -Bball
            Am I the only one who doesn't mind this? I've seen a lot of people really get bugged about this but it doesn't bother me at all.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

              Originally posted by Bball View Post

              I'd be curious to know how UB's friend would feel about the experience if they were in the balcony (or was this in the balcony?). Reason being, when people talk about the balcony being a bargain, maybe it is when there's a buzz about the team and just being there and being a part of it is an experience... But I'm not sure that translates to the upper decks when things are like they are now. The casual fan isn't going to feel much intensity in the balcony if the team is playing badly or lethargic... or if the overall mood of the arena is down (as it is in down years). If the team is playing with some passion that might translate to the lower bowl fairly well... but if the lower bowl is only 2/3rds full and the upper decks are sporadic at best, I don't know if it translates well up there.

              And I don't think the forced "Get on your feet Pacer fans!" are anything but practically insulting to many. Did your friend have any comments about that?

              -Bball

              I sit in the lower level, row 14 in one of the corners. $81.00 seats, although I never told him how much they were and the ticket I gave him had the price marked out, (I marked it out on purpose for several reasons). He didn't mention anything about Jerry Baker (who subbed for Reb Porter) telling us to stand up. Although I don't remember Jerry telling us that, but I easily could have missed it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

                Buck, it is a good thing you did.

                We go around and around here about Pacers' attendance and why it is down and who's fault it is and what needs to be done to change it.

                But we all need to act as Pacers missionaries, bringing friends with us when we go to games. It matters less what they think going in, than that they get a chance to see a game and refresh their opinion.

                Kudos.
                And I won't be here to see the day
                It all dries up and blows away
                I'd hang around just to see
                But they never had much use for me
                In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

                  People around me were complaining about Baker all game, but the odd thing was they thought he WAS Porter. Some people get to the games and aren't even paying attention...


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

                    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                    What, he didn't scream and run out of the building when 24 thugs poured out of the tunnels?


                    To me his opinion just fuels my campaign against the "casual" fans. I still call them out as liars, nothing short of that. They talk a lot of crap about the team, but in terms of family entertainment the actual games are still a pretty good deal at upper level prices.
                    Casual fans atleast know the history of the players, and the trouble they've been in.

                    Looking at them doesn't give you the sense that some are facing criminal charges, they look like extremely large black men that you would see every day walking down the street, on TV, at work, or even your friends. They can't be decked out in chains, wearing their pants down at their knees, they can't see them reppin their gang colors because their bandanna's are still in their locker.

                    He knew nothing about them, AT ALL. Unless you're extremely prejudice against tall people, or against other races you would have zero reasons to look negatively upon them.

                    It's like you would think if a little baby didn't start bawling at the mere sight of some of these guy's it doesn't prove a point that people are turned off at their actions. I don't understand how you can't believe the general public doesn't go because of their actions in the past few years, especially when you have a fairly good amount on this board who say they've been turned off.

                    We don't know them as people. We get to see them for 3hrs 82 times a year. The only other time 90% of us hear or see them is if they're in the newspapers.

                    If the Indians players start acting, or atleast their actions start showing up in the papers, then you may have a point.
                    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

                      I love conseco, but unless its a fairly large crowd then it's easy to get lost in the greatness of the building. When the crowd is small as in the several games i have gone to this year all the noise and REB yells do seem forced. I would imagine a packed house crowd wouldn't be bothered by the sounds and announcing one bit due to the intensity of a full conseco being into a game. You ever walked down a school hallway after school had been out for a few hours and screamed at the top of your lungs? Yea, it probably sounded out of place and echoed and the afterschool math club probably peeked their heads out the door and looked at you funny. Now, if you ever walked down the hall in between passing periods or lunch and screamed into the packed hallway/lunchroom, you would notice it was no big deal as probably more people than you were doing the same. We just need fans in the stands. I feel as people are almost afraid to cheer like they want to due to what others may think. "Get this drunk out of here...." or "Whats he cheering for, doesnt he know we're going to lose?" Power in numbers people, that is the fans biggest gift to the players.
                      Last edited by jmoney2584; 01-02-2008, 07:07 PM.
                      Roy Hibbert.... It's the POWER!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

                        Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
                        Am I the only one who doesn't mind this? I've seen a lot of people really get bugged about this but it doesn't bother me at all.
                        I don't know if it annoys me. I just choose to ignore it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

                          I don't understand how you can't believe the general public doesn't go because of their actions in the past few years, especially when you have a fairly good amount on this board who say they've been turned off.
                          First off, the first part was a joke. Then I double spaced for a different train of thought, and that thought is that when you remove the baggage and just look at the PRODUCT it's still good stuff.

                          I'm gonna call those same fans out as liars yet again. Was Tinsley playing vs Memphis? Were the stands suddenly full?

                          Liars. "Hoosiers" with their love of all things basketball would have poured into the arena just to see locals Owens and Conley starting at PG against each other (could they at least get a full Lawrence Central crowd in there), or to see Dunleavy and Foster hustling their way to great basketball, or Mr. 4 year college good guy Granger as a key element for the team.

                          Complaints about the product don't match what the product actually is. Fans decide what something is and then that's just what it is. It's not thugs, it's expectations of winning, as in the casual fans don't have any.

                          Just like they decided that Manning was a choker and that it would be better for 5000 Titans fans to come into the Dome to watch a playoff game instead.

                          The day you defend that last item (successfully) is the day I start to listen to any of this defense of fan apathy for the Pacers. This is the fanbase, it's not good. All teams lose fans when times are bad, but what explains the poor showings for the Colts or Pacers even when times aren't that shabby at all? A lot of towns could bring in crowds for a team that was "only" .500, or only in the wild card game.


                          Look at the crowds now. Then trade Tins away, JO too, go into rebuild mode and lose 55 games this year and next. Now tell me what the crowds look like, and just which player is the excuse du jour for not going to games. That's what reality is about to be. I'm mad now while there is still hope to do something about it. After the fact "I told you so" isn't going to make things better.

                          They didn't come back when Jackson was traded, they won't return if Tinsley is traded, they won't return if JO is traded, they talk respect for Dun but they don't make good on it. It's all BS.
                          Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-03-2008, 12:41 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

                            If JO and Tins are traded fans won't be coming because Murphy's contract is too big and Granger never lived up to the hype.
                            I have much more respect for someone who says, "The team sucks so I don't go." Over someone who uses excuse after excuse. First it was Artest, then it was Jack, now its JO and TIns. There will ALWAYS be a scapegoat when the team is losing or mediocre ALWAYS. Especially in a market the size of metro Indianapolis.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I took someone to a Pacers a game that has never been before

                              Thanks for sharing about taking your friend to the game UB. It is always neat to get an 'outsider's' view of something you enjoy and take for granted sometime. Maybe the Pacers need to talk to the non-season ticket holders to see what brings them to the games and what keeps them from coming. I live in the home of the World Champs and do not pay to go to games for 2 reasons. The first is that i can't afford to pay for seats in the lower level. The second is that sitting in the upper level stinks even when it is full. Might as well watch it on t.v. It doesn't help that my wife is deathly afraid of heights.

                              Those may be 2 reasons that the "average" Pacer fan stays away as well. The franchise is also going through what the Trailblazers went through. I'm not sure if anyone on here is from there, but my sister said that when it went bad there it was horrible. Of ciurse,, we have not had the luxery of lottery picks while our team has its bad rep, deserved or not, to start the rebuilding of the team. The team has to give the public a reason to come back. Wins are the best way, but staying out of trouble wouldn't hurt.

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