I don't want a trade yet.. the problem is the starting lineup. Troy Murphy has absolutely no business starting over Jeff Foster.
I would argue that we may have no choice but to give Murphy more minutes...if not start him over Foster...mainly because Foster has had a history of missing games.
I agree with everyone that thinks that we should be patient to see how this team does. But the problem is that this requires that the entire lineup remains healthy. Unfortunately, we are dependant on players that have been fighting injuries the entire season.
When was the last time that we ever had a lineup that wasn't hindered by some injury for an extended period of time?
If we ever make a trade for players.....durability is one of the traits that I would look for in the players we get back.
Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.
A minor trade, however, one that will shorten our bench a 2 for 1 or a 3 for 2 might be beneficial, because right now there aren't enough minutes going around.
How about just an acquisition? Daniel Artest (yes, brother), PG, Rockford Fury, 255 lbs as reported on TNT w/ chuck, ernie and kenny.
Last edited by kester99; 12-28-2007 at 03:07 AM.
[~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!
How is the second trade far fetched? It was proposed on another forum by a Suns fan and around 50% of their fans liked it. Marion's value is slightly lower than J.O.'s, and you do realize the Hawks pick is currently at #19, right? Somehow I don't think you do. If the Hawks were still a lottery team with a top-5 pick, then sure it would be a huge stretch, but they're not.
Last edited by Kofi; 12-28-2007 at 08:46 AM.
I really think that we will not shake this roster up too much. We need a PG that is apparent. But the team has startted to unify (1 loss does not change that).
We are also seeing the effects of not having a proactive leader in this bunch. Any leadership that JO provides is after the fact, reactive to be more precise. I am convinced that if this team is average at best then I can deal with that.
Elite players are hard to come by. Miller has been the only true elite player this organization has had in its NBA tenure. Sure there have been All-Stars. But none have had the resolve and poise that Reggie had on the court.
If and when J.O. is moved, Jeff is not the guy I'd want to
see accompany him. Jeff fits the '5' spot in OB's system
pretty damn nicely.
No ones going anywhere. Someone needs to start a thread on the dissappointment of ________, a la Kareem Rush so that player can turn around and become a stud.
Juan Dixon is available, according to hoopshype.
Just to be clear, I didn't post this as a knee-jerk reaction to the Atlanta loss. I've been dwelling on this for a bit now, and with nearly 30 games under our belts, I feel confident that a trade is needed to have a shot at getting above average.
I don't dislike our team. I just think we need some tweaks.
That rumored Phoenix deal sounds interesting, though I've never really been as high on Marion as some others on the forum.
How about JO, Granger, 2009 1st round pick for Amare, Barbosa, and Piatowski? (Piatowski is only included to make the deal work financially, we'd probably buy him out)
Phoenix becomes much better defensively with the addition of JO. Granger or HIll becomes their sixth man and still sees probably 30 minutes a game.
SF: Granger or Hill
The Pacers commit themselves to the uptempo and the addition of a guy like Amare would do a lot to bring the fans back IMO. We get worse defensively, but like I said this would be a full commitment to the uptempo style of play. Dun would get to move back to the SF position and we would be able to get Shawne and Ike more PT off the bench.
Mal - I don't think they've quit yet, but I mentioned to Gnome last night that JO's reaction to the Tins-fest Atlanta loss has me concerned. I'm not knocking JO, nor should I really imply that it was a JO reaction to Tinsley's shooting exactly since I don't know, but he obviously was in a foul mode regarding that loss.
I am going to harp this point till it's proven false, this team was 29-24. They won games post-trade. I think the trade hurt them, but I'm willing to concede that instead it was a LATERAL move. What still worries me then is that last year they hit that really tough patch of schedule, started losing, and THEN they "gave up".
To me this team hasn't done enough or shown enough consistancy to make me feel like they could ride out a rough patch of games, though in their defense they did take that 6 game streak well. On the other hand that was extremely early in the season and with plenty of injury roster shake-ups and learning the system excuses to fall back on.
Can this group handle 6 straight losses if it's Tinsley shooting 8-21 and saying "my shot wasn't falling but I asked the coach if I was shooting too much..." or JO flubbing on offense himself or Danny doing a youthful MIA or Mike doing a "who me" MIA or Troy getting toasted on defense....
What happens when it's not injuries or understanding the system? What happens when/if they have to face up to just not having enough for the next stage? That can be demoralizing.
But back to Bball's point, I agree with Shade too, but "What can you do? Stand Pat!" They are pretty stuck right now, or so it would seem.
Good post. Depressingly realistic, but good.
It's not like 6 months before the Brad thing we were all sitting around saying "this team is in trouble and I expect a huge flop when it comes time to deal with Brad". Maybe you saw a building issue, but few people were expecting it to go the way it eventually did. These problems with the cap tend to sneak up on fans. I just wish they wouldn't appear to be sneaking up on TPTB lately.
Of course then again maybe I'm overlooking some brilliant exit strategy they have lined up. God I hope so. Miracle trade FTW
I am all for it, we need a damn player who can consistantly play good, who can average at least 20 ppg, with other words... a good player.
I give up, i dont care who we trade... i want THAT player. I am thinking of a Shooting Guard or Point Guard....
IMO, the Simons should begin shopping for new management.
In any event, if we are not working hard right now to make a move, it will be a fire sale a year from now. The Brad Miller analogy is a good one.
Some of our young players like Granger and Williams are going to be good solid pro's. They will get decent offers on the market. Ike and Harrison have a chance as well. But some seem to think these relatively low draft picks should be playing like vets or lotto picks. Even with years of development, this squad has no chance to compete for a championship. The talent is simply not that good.
We definitely need a trade. We're mediocre. You can't be content with mediocrity. With Mike's play this season he actually has good trade value, it might be time to move him for a defender. Ike could also go, as much as I hate to say it we simply have more pressing needs at the moment. I wouldn't even object to moving Granger for a young talented guard. Someone like Randy Foye or Barbosa.
Last edited by Kofi; 12-28-2007 at 11:25 PM.
Seth, actually I was just making a joke (which now that I think about it reference a thread by Shade before your time here on PD). Shade had once said that the 2003-2004 team had quit if I recall correctly (or maybe it was 2005?).
Trade JO...it's obvious with the game he played tonight scoring only 25 pts and such that he is not what he once was. We need to trade him for Mikki moore so we can clear cap room.
basically what the pacers need to do is trade granger to miami at season's end for daequan cook and their lottery pick this year...