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Thread: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/12232007...net_871855.htm
    LA HAS PLAN AT READY FOR KIDDNAPPING NET


    By PETER VECSEY


    December 23, 2007 -- THE Lakers are angling to shoplift Jason Kidd, a Western hearing aide claims, for a couple draft picks, Kwame Brown's expiring contract ($9M), Jordan Farmar ($1M) and Vladimir Radmanovic ($5.6M with an additional $19.2M over the next three seasons). Not unexpectedly, the Nets aren't interested in assuming Radmanovic's long-term guarantee. There's nothing not to love about Farmar, yet New Jersey already has a promising, young caretaker in Marcus Williams.


    Another time-tested source believes the Cavaliers (Drew Gooden) and Mavericks (Erick Dampier) are in better position to provide the Nets with frontcourt help, but neither team nor the Lakers can offer more than the Nuggets - an almost-rehabbed Nene or Marcus Camby vs. Kenyon Martin. According to my hall monitor, coach George Karl urgently wants Kidd to free Allen Iverson to concentrate exclusively on scoring. Aside from one of the two aforementioned big men, Denver is prepared to kick in Linas Kleiza and JR Smith.


    Over the past year or so the Lakers have had designs on three players we know about - Kidd, Kevin Garnett (prior to being beat out by Boston) and Jermaine O'Neal. If Jackson's juggernaut is unable to pry loose Kidd, you would think the focus would be back on the Pacers' forward/center who definitely can be had, and it's not as if Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird are asking for anything outlandish.


    The plan is to dump $44M off Indiana's cap in the next two seasons, contingent, of course, on Jermaine proving to Lakers' management he's healthy enough to man up regularly alongside Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum. Good luck on that, though he hasn't looked so shaped up to run the break since he began lifting weights.


    The Heat's $130M gamble ($40M left over the next two seasons) on Shaquille O'Neal harvested an instant title. In all likelihood, that'll have to satisfy owner Mickey Arison. Jerry Buss, ahem, owns eight championship rings. If he wasn't willing to reinvest long-term in Shaq, whose dominance was responsible for three of those, why would we think he'll gamble the kind of money we're talking about on Jermaine?
    ------------------------



    Vecsey does seem to have the goods on the Pacers a lot. However I think this column is about as accurate as the one last Summer where he said JO to LA for Bynum and Odom was about to happen.

    This time he thinks we get neither Bynum or Odom ? If that were the case I'm sure other teams would have more to offer than LA's junk.

    The other thing that interested me was his statement that the plan was to "dump $44M off Indiana's cap in the next two seasons . . . "


    That means dumping JO. The thing is it's not easy to 'dump' that much money. Looking at LA's player salaries, if you leave out Kobe, Bynum, and Odom, and go by the premise that $44m has to be dumped in two years, which excludes adding Walton, Radmanovic, and Fisher. Also that the Laker's would have to keep two point guards. Then that means the Lakers would HAVE to trade these six players for JO. Vujacic, Mihm, Karl, Brown, Crittenton, and Turiaf.


    That means we would have to cut 4 players, and LA would be down to nine. The Laker's would then have to sign several players just to comply with NBA rules on roster size. (Basically 12)


    No doubt they would resign any Laker's we dropped. Still, as they say on MythBusters, "This Myth is Busted."

    It is interesting that Vecsey thinks the Pacers want to dump JO and his salary.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 12-23-2007 at 01:07 PM.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    I'm with you Will. When the logic behind it is nowhere near reality you have to have doubts.

    And as has been pointed out many, many times before, including on this very subject, PV talks a lot of s*** that never comes to be. On one hand a person might defend him with "well, things change, you never know" but frankly I hear that and think why bother reporting it then. If your stories are going to be 80-90% wrong does it really matter why? The fact is that PV saying it usually means it's not about to happen.

    I'm still waiting on the Bender to LA trade to come through.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    It is interesting that Vecsey thinks the Pacers want to dump JO and his salary.
    The Pacers will need to make a major trade within the next year or so if they intend on signing their young players. Otherwise, they walk ala Fred Jones and we may end up with nothing.

    None of this surprises me, particularly when you have Bird as the GM who fired JO's lover (Zeke).

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    Member tdubb03's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    LET IT DIE VECSEY

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Maybe a 3-way deal that would net the Lakers Kidd, with JO and Farmar going to NJ? Who would we get, then?

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Maybe a 3-way deal that would net the Lakers Kidd, with JO and Farmar going to NJ? Who would we get, then?
    The same players. JO and Kidd make the same exact amount of money. So if Jo went to Jersey and Kidd went to LA, it follows that we would be taking LA's scraps again. If that were the case it would make more sense for us to deal with NJ for their scraps and let them keep Kidd.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    The same players. JO and Kidd make the same exact amount of money. So if Jo went to Jersey and Kidd went to LA, it follows that we would be taking LA's scraps again. If that were the case it would make more sense for us to deal with NJ for their scraps and let them keep Kidd.
    If we've decided that the best we can hope for in a JO trade is a salary dump (and we've also decided a salary dump is something we need to do), then why not 'help' a couple of teams out with us simply hoping for a 'payback of the favor scenario' down the road. Plus we'd also probably be doing JO a favor as well if we've decided we're as good without him as with him.

    Addition by subtraction....

    The days of thinking JO has any appreciable market value are fading fast... if not already gone...

    -Bball
    Last edited by Bball; 12-23-2007 at 03:49 PM.
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    why not 'help' a couple of teams out with us simply hoping for a 'payback of the favor scenario' down the road.

    HeHeHe!

    No doubt you were speaking in general terms when you said help a 'couple' teams since there's 'one' JO.

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    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    "Man up regularly alongside Odom and Bynum?" Well then what on earth does Vecsey think the Lakers could offer without one, or both of those two? My gut feeling is that we will see the trade deadline come and go without a major move for us. I think, unless there's a major collapse between now and the trade deadline, they'll be willing to let the season play out. I would like to know if anyone thinks JO will look hard at opting out after the season, or do you think he'll stay put?

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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    tradeing JO been overratedl ately i dont see any trade now will benfits us in long run
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by sportsmusicxboxpacer View Post
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    tradeing JO been overratedl ately i dont see any trade now will benfits us in long run

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    Member NorCal_Pacerfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    JO is getting healthy. He's adapting to this system. He LOVES coach. The team is gelling after a horrible end to last season and a completely new system has been put into place. If JO looks around, we're doing pretty damn good atm. I don't see JO getting traded unless we start dropping games like crazy.
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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The Pacers will need to make a major trade within the next year or so if they intend on signing their young players. Otherwise, they walk ala Fred Jones and we may end up with nothing.
    well, fred jones wasn't re-signed supposedly because of his lack of work ethic, but it isn't a stretch to think that financial considerations were a factor too.

    if we don't make a salary dump by this season's trading deadline, then we'll have trouble re-signing david harrison. last year, it wouldn't have been much of a loss, but now that he's finally playing well it would be a pity to lose him because of money. shades of brad miller and all.

    it gets worse in '09, because we'll have to fit in extensions to danny and ike. foster's contract expiring in '09 helps, but you'd think we'd want to re-sign him.

    so yes, it wouldn't surprise me if we're still looking to move j.o. for financial reasons, despite him playing well. sure i'd rather move murphy first, but good luck finding a taker for him.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    I have no problem moving Jermaine, and I really like him. But I can't imagine a deal to LA that makes sense... especially with Bynum off the table (I don't care about Odom except as salary filler).

    I still think NY is the way to go.
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    HeHeHe!

    No doubt you were speaking in general terms when you said help a 'couple' teams since there's 'one' JO.
    Someone mentioned a 3 way involving NJ then someone else said we didn't need LA to do that deal and could deal direct with NJ for their scraps. That got me to thinking that management might be happy with our current collection of players minus JO. So they might be open to being a partner in a deal with all it getting us was a near term salary dump and some good karma because we enabled a couple of other teams to make a deal they wanted to do.

    I'm not predicting anything... just throwing out a 'what if' here that might make Vecsey's comment a little more sensible sounding (since he seems to be saying JO to LA wouldn't include LO or Bynum).

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I have no problem moving Jermaine, and I really like him. But I can't imagine a deal to LA that makes sense... especially with Bynum off the table (I don't care about Odom except as salary filler).

    I still think NY is the way to go.
    I'm all about NY if we're gonna trade JO - it's the only team that will give us a great deal.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    I'm all about NY if we're gonna trade JO - it's the only team that will give us a great deal.
    Stephon Marbury and David Lee for JO works. We could then buy Starbury out and save a bit of money.

    The thing is JO's contract is up in two years and all we have to do is not resign him. In that respect I don't know what Vecsey means that we plan to dump $44m off our cap in two years. That will happen automatically.

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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Oh God........
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Stephon Marbury and David Lee for JO works. We could then buy Starbury out and save a bit of money.

    The thing is JO's contract is up in two years and all we have to do is not resign him. In that respect I don't know what Vecsey means that we plan to dump $44m off our cap in two years. That will happen automatically.
    The plan is to dump $44M off Indiana's cap in the next two seasons
    It's all in how you use your Vecsey decoder ring. The way you are reading it he could've said:

    The plan is to dump $44M off Indiana's cap AFTER the next two seasons

    I'm reading it to mean that dump would come sometime WITHIN the next two seasons.

    Or it could be:

    The plan is to dump $44M off Indiana's cap FOR the next two seasons

    ...Can't really say which way we're supposed to read it...

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    It's all in how you use your Vecsey decoder ring. The way you are reading it he could've said:

    The plan is to dump $44M off Indiana's cap AFTER the next two seasons

    I'm reading it to mean that dump would come sometime WITHIN the next two seasons.

    Or it could be:

    The plan is to dump $44M off Indiana's cap FOR the next two seasons

    ...Can't really say which way we're supposed to read it...

    -Bball
    At first I did read it that the dump would come over the next two seasons. However, I looked at all the teams salaries and I don't see how we could dump the whole $44m until the end of two years.

    Bottom line, Vecsey doesn't know anything as usual, he just thinks this is what Bird will try to do. It's beside the point that I agree with him.

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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    If we could give them Murphy and O'Neal id do the trade in a heart beat. That would free up alot of cap space and let us play in the off season to pick up a solid free agent.
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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    I had worked out a trade I was fine with. I'll find it.

    EDIT: Ah, forget it. Basically it was Marbury/M.Rose/Lee/Pick for Jermaine/Troy. Both teams get better... NY gets stronger up front (and allows them to try moving Curry, since he's in Zeke's doghouse) and get rid of two guys who really want out... Rose and Marbury.

    Pacers get massive salary cap relief, Starbury either plays backup 1 or gets bought out, and they get a prospect and a pick.
    Last edited by Anthem; 12-23-2007 at 09:24 PM.
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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    If we can somehow get NY's pick next year and/or David Lee then I am 100% in. In fact, I'd do filler + their unprotected 2008 1st round pick for JO - that's a typical Isiah trade, right? And he likes JO way more than Curry.

    EDIT: Upon further consideration, I'd even do JO for filler and the right to swap picks with NY.
    Last edited by rexnom; 12-23-2007 at 09:45 PM.

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    The plan is to dump $44M off Indiana's cap in the next two seasons.
    seems clear to me. jermaine is owed $44m over the next 2 seasons. dumping jermaine's contract will thus save us $44m off our cap over the next 2 seasons.

    a lakers deal doesn't seem likely to me either. what vecsey says is that the lakers are offering kwame, farmar, and rad to the nets for kidd. he then goes on to speculate that if the nets turn it down (which they will), then the lakers will offer the same package for j.o.

    imo we will turn it down for the same reason that the nets will - vlad rad's long contract. lakers don't have another short contract to trade other than lamar, and they probably don't want to do that.

    knicks - a possibility i guess. if they're willing to take jermaine and troy for shorter contracts (like marbury and rose) then our management will likely have to think about it.

    edit: just saw anthem's knicks trade. yup, probably the only thing that makes sense with the knicks
    Last edited by wintermute; 12-23-2007 at 10:01 PM.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Vecsey Column (JO to LA again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I had worked out a trade I was fine with. I'll find it.

    EDIT: Ah, forget it. Basically it was Marbury/M.Rose/Lee/Pick for Jermaine/Troy. Both teams get better... NY gets stronger up front (and allows them to try moving Curry, since he's in Zeke's doghouse) and get rid of two guys who really want out... Rose and Marbury.

    Pacers get massive salary cap relief, Starbury either plays backup 1 or gets bought out, and they get a prospect and a pick.
    I considered including Murphy. I jettisoned the idea when I realized I was including two bigs and only getting back one. The Pacers won't do that. We are on the edge of having enough bigs now.

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