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Thread: How has Tinsley changed this year

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default How has Tinsley changed this year

    As most of you know I have never been much of a fan of Jamaal Tinsley. Actually I was the first two months of his rookie season and then I turned on him fast as I became very troubled by what I saw. Also during the 61 win season for the most part I learned to tolerate Jamaal, but that was only temporary and of course he was injured in the playoffs that year once again.

    The past two season, I wanted Tinsley gone, off the team and I would have been OK if they would have just bought his contract out. I would have been fine with anyone else at point guard. McCloud and Armstrong - OK, AJ and whoever - OK. really just about anyone I would have been OK with it. Anybody but Tinsley (ABT) was my motto.

    What bothered me most about him wasn't the off court court incidents (although I could do without those) it wasn't his turnovers, it wasn't his desire to always get into a personal duel with the opposing point guard, it wasn't his horrible shooting and questionable at best shot selection, and believe it or not it wasn't even his terrible defense which often times bordered on criminal, more than anything it was his terrible on court leadership. He provided none in fact I believe he often had negative leadership, his impact on his teammates was an overall net minus. He brought his teammates down with him.

    But this year things have changed - he has changed. He is a changed person. I don't know why it is, but he is different. I'm not going to get into rumors or insinuations about JT's personal life - suffice it to say, things have changed in his personal life and that has carried over to the basketball court. Sure the coaching change has made a difference, but don't be fooled, that is not the only change, nor it is close to being the most important change - Jamaal is a changed man this season.

    And the changes have impacted JT's play on the court, but more than that it has changed him and the way he interacts with his teammates. I can honestly say that for the first time in his career Jamaal Tinsley is a leader in fact he is the on court leader of this basketball team and he is the biggest reason why the Pacers team is a lot better than all the experts thought and why I believe this team has a chance to be better than most of us die-hards figured.

    His flaws are still there, he gets beat defensively way too often (but at least he is trying and he is in a defensive stance more often) his shot selection is questionable a lot of times - but I don't consider his turnovers a flaw (except during the 1st half against the Knicks) because he creates so much offense. the really good point guards often commit a lot of turnovers.

    So I applaud Tinsley for turning his life around and for becoming the basketball player that he was always apable of being.


    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart


    New-look Tinsley: 'I'm just happy'
    Point guard opening up, playing better with fresh start
    By Mark Montieth
    Call Star reporter Mark Montieth at (317) 444-6406.
    December 21, 2007


    Jamaal Tinsley's personal transformation has been evident in his improved play this season. Sometimes, it's even more obvious when he isn't playing.

    Sitting out the Indiana Pacers' victory over Philadelphia on Wednesday because of a deep thigh bruise, Tinsley played the role of assistant coach. He wore a yellow tie, sat next to the staff, and took teammates aside during timeouts to lend advice and encouragement.

    He might have the same role tonight in Minnesota.

    That picture was a distinct contrast from recent seasons, when he often dressed sloppily when on the bench with an injury, or stayed on the bench during timeouts, ignoring the huddle when he was in uniform but out of the game.

    The changes, glaringly obvious to teammates, front office employees and media members, have been more than cosmetic, however.

    Fan opinion of Tinsley is still shaped by several nightclub incidents, including one in which he still faces criminal charges.

    Those who are around him regularly, however, have seen a different person since camp opened. He initiates conversations with front office employees; he shocked one by saying hello on media day. He arrives earlier for games. He speaks out more in team meetings. He jokes with teammates in the locker room. Whereas he once mostly muttered monotone cliches after losses, he now pulls reporters aside to point out his mistakes. Sometimes, he even asks for help straightening his tie.

    What happened?

    Several things, most notably a coaching change, a style of play more suited to his skills, improved health, a more satisfying personal life and simple maturity.

    "I'm just happy," he said.

    "My six years (with the Pacers) have been frustrating . . . injury stuff, losing my mother, other people that I love. It means a lot when you've got coaches and teammates you've been around for a while who want to see you do good, and I finally get to show people what I'm capable of doing."

    Tinsley, 29, doesn't like to reveal much about his personal life, but teammates acknowledge the impact of his mother's death in the spring of 2003. Letris Smith, who died of cancer, was his foundation, the woman who raised him and his seven siblings in an impoverished Brooklyn neighborhood after his father and stepfather both died within a three-month period when he was 9 years old.

    "It seemed like it took a long time for him to recover from that," Jermaine O'Neal said.
    Rick Carlisle took over as the Pacers coach the following fall, marking the start of a strained four-year relationship. Carlisle gave Tinsley's starting position to Kenny Anderson on the first day of training camp in 2003. Tinsley didn't get it back until Dec. 30, after Anderson was injured, but he never totally regained trust in Carlisle.

    Jim O'Brien's arrival in May offered a clean slate, and Tinsley has responded with his best season. His shooting touch remains erratic, but he is averaging 14.8 points on 40 percent shooting. His rebounding (4.4) and assist (8.7) averages are career highs, and he could break Mark Jackson's franchise record for single-season assist average (8.7), set in 1997-98.

    It's not just that O'Brien's style of play fits Tinsley's skills. O'Brien's straightforward personality is a good match, as well.

    "He's a guy who speaks his mind, and that's all you can ask for," Tinsley said. "He holds you accountable instead of BS'ing you and beating around the bush. As a man, that's all you can ask for."

    As Tinsley has taken advantage of the fresh start offered by O'Brien, he has extended one to others. David Harrison, now in his fourth season with the Pacers, sees a teammate who has replaced skepticism with trust.

    "Before, he would go into situations prejudging your thoughts toward him," Harrison said. "I think he's kind of done away with that with the new coaches. He's giving everyone a clean slate. Even me and him . . . we hardly ever talked before, but now it seems like I talk to him more than anyone else on the team.

    "It's just a new environment. I think he's trying to let people get to know the real Jamaal instead of the persona that was presented."
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-21-2007 at 10:30 AM.

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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    I think UB and I have had and expressed the same feelings and disappointments regarding Tinsley since the 61 win season. So, there's no surprise that I now feel the exact same way about his transformation.

    I'm thrilled that Jamaal has made the changes and I think it's important to note that he is not the same person. He's had the potential to be this player but he's never been this player or person consistently. The fact that he wore a suit the other night while on the bench didn't go unnoticed by me either. That's probably the first time I've ever seen him in a suit and he looked comfortable. He wasn't playing but you could tell he was into the game.

    I'm actually enjoying watching him play now. I still think he shoots too much at times but the way he's distributed the ball has been excellent.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Remember #31 dohman's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Biggest change is he is not overweight. He is finally in basketball shape.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Quote Originally Posted by justinDOHMAN View Post
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    Biggest change is he is not overweight. He is finally in basketball shape.
    That is a huge key. Probably helps that he isn't eating chicken fingers while sitting on the bench anymore.

    But really though he needs to be as light as possible (I think he's just naturally strong) because he has such great hands if his feet/legs can get him in good position, his hands then can do what needs to be done.

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    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Yeah, I thought I noticed the same bad attitude of years past reemerge during the game against the Clippers - that was when I got really pissed and felt completely exasperated. But, he really has turned it around - yelling at Granger for making mistakes, it made me feel good again. I knew he could change, just wasn't sure he would.

    This post means a lot coming from you UB, thanks for sharing.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Yeah, I thought I noticed the same bad attitude of years past reemerge during the game against the Clippers - that was when I got really pissed and felt completely exasperated. But, he really has turned it around - yelling at Granger for making mistakes, it made me feel good again. I knew he could change, just wasn't sure he would.

    This post means a lot coming from you UB, thanks for sharing.
    Thanks

    Yeah the game against the Clippers was a horrible game for him, and he had a couple of bad games right after that one, but then really turned it around
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-21-2007 at 11:39 AM.

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    Member Alabama-Redneck's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Uncle Buck, you and I had several disagreements about JT in 2001. I have always been a JT fan as a result of his high talent level but not always happy with his demeanor.

    I lost my Mother in 2003 and my wife in 2005 and I know, in some degree, what he was going through but I truly believe the coaching change is the one most important change this year.

    Having your boss tell you to work in a manner that does not fit or showcase your talent does not make for a good work enviroment and usually bring your productivity down. I am retired but I still remember one boss that I had problems with and it showed in my performance.

    Most people mature in their late 20's to early 30's and I think that has happened to JT also. A happy family life and a happy work enviroment will make most people happy. Let's hope he continues down this road.

    I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year. Also, that greeting goes out to all of the Pacer fans and Pacer Digest participants.


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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    I think Tinsley might now finally be able to put his mother's death behind him. With Rick gone his connection to that time in his life when he was really struggling with the loss is now broken. Also I'm sure being a father has made Tinsley look at being a better leader in his personal life and on the court.
    I was Tinsley fan since he got here and then struggled with my feelings about him for most of last year. I'm glad he is living up to his potential because at least IMO as Jamaal Tinsley goes, so go the Pacers. This has been the case ever since he has been here IMO.

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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Ive never really been a Jamaal fan I think its pretty well known. However since he has given everyone a clean slate, I shall too. From here on out ill root for everyone on the pacers equally.
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    That was a great read.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    I guess I'm going to end up as the last holdout. I'm still waiting to pass judgement until February. Been burned too many times by the guy. I want to see what he's like when we hit a few of the rough stretches.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    "He holds you accountable instead of BS'ing you and beating around the bush.
    Now this makes sense, it allows Rick to be who he is without being a demon, yet also allows Tins to be bothered by him. Let's be fair to Rick, the guy is as Mr. Nice Guy as it comes. He got crapped around by the Pacers the first time as he waited on Isiah to get out of his CBA issue to find out if he had a job or not, he got run out of Detroit so they could chase Larry Brown, and he had about as rough a ride as a coach could get while he was here, only to be fired for having 3 losing months after 3.5 seasons of winning.

    The entire time he's always responded with the soft tone and aw shucks attitude. It's endearing actually, it's hard not to like him.

    But there is one problem with being a nice guy coach. You still have to make tough choices, you still have to hold guys accountable. So on one hand you are approaching discussions in a non-confrontational manner but on the other you are slamming a guy with your actions. Not all guys get that.

    It's very possible that this was the interaction with Tins and that it left him feeling like "what am I doing wrong". Doesn't mean Tins didn't deserve bench time, doesn't mean Rick is wrong for trying to be civil about things (and this all assumes that his off-camera attitude is the same as what we see).

    It just means that maybe Tins needed to hear something that matched his benching, something that felt consistant to him.


    Or maybe he just put his emotions surrounding his mother's death into the mix (natural) and that poisoned the well on Rick for good.

    The rumors that he was late all the time (or worse) do bother me. That's not how you handle disgruntlement, if that was the issue. Does it mean that if he stops liking JOB's choices that he gets to start coming in late again and maybe milking injuries? Does it get to be the coach's fault again?

    Remember this, Reggie wasn't exactly fond of Larry Brown and sure as heck wasn't getting fair treatment from him. But he still carried himself like a pro, showed up, worked hard and kept quiet about it. In the end he proved that he was a lot classier. To me that's a much better way to handle things than acting up.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year



    I completely agree, UB. You can just tell that Jamaal is a different person now. He's even a lot more vocal with the media than he has been in the past.

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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The rumors that he was late all the time (or worse) do bother me. That's not how you handle disgruntlement, if that was the issue. Does it mean that if he stops liking JOB's choices that he gets to start coming in late again and maybe milking injuries? Does it get to be the coach's fault again?

    That is not the way to handle it, for sure, but if a person is not told what the problem might be or if the coach says one thing and does something else, it leads to mass confusion or disgruntlement.

    With JOB's direct approach, I don't think there are many unanswered questions. JMO!


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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    I can't believe people still say he hasn't been in shape. My avatar is from 3 years ago.
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Agree with KegBoy.

    From someone that deals with sinus problems all year round, they just don't up and go away. You either medicate them, which he should have been doing if it really was a problem, or you have surgury. If he would have had surgury then we would have heard about it.

    His attitude and unhappiness led him to either milk his illness and not play when he could, or he just made stuff up to not play. Either way, I can't congradulate him on finally sucking it up or for giving more effort.

    To me that would be condoning his actions in the past, which I just can't do. Am I glad he's finally matured? Yes, but I'm not so sure it's really maturity. It just seems like he finally got his way and is now a happy camper. What's to say things don't turn south again when he becomes unhappy about something else?

    Real maturity and change is shown through your ability to cope with new or reoccuring problems, not when it's been smooth sailing. (I'm talking about on court things as opposed to being out at clubs and such.)

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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Agree with KegBoy.

    From someone that deals with sinus problems all year round, they just don't up and go away. You either medicate them, which he should have been doing if it really was a problem, or you have surgury. If he would have had surgury then we would have heard about it.

    His attitude and unhappiness led him to either milk his illness and not play when he could, or he just made stuff up to not play. Either way, I can't congradulate him on finally sucking it up or for giving more effort.

    To me that would be condoning his actions in the past, which I just can't do. Am I glad he's finally matured? Yes, but I'm not so sure it's really maturity. It just seems like he finally got his way and is now a happy camper. What's to say things don't turn south again when he becomes unhappy about something else?

    Real maturity and change is shown through your ability to cope with new or reoccuring problems, not when it's been smooth sailing. (I'm talking about on court things as opposed to being out at clubs and such.)

    Yeah I agree whole heartedly. What does it say about his character if he faked injuries and just plain dogged it because he didn't like Rick. He is a malcontent from the top of his head to the floor he walks on and he will show his true colors in the future when things get rocky as they surely will.

    Rick was not the problem and time will prove that he wasn't. Tins behavior while Rick was coach was juvenile and bordered on being devious. Has he changed? NO, he has not. He is like the little kid who throws a fit at the grocery store and pouts untill Mom gives in.

    Putting faith in Tins is fools gold.
    Last edited by Elgin56; 12-21-2007 at 04:43 PM.

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    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Agree with KegBoy.

    From someone that deals with sinus problems all year round, they just don't up and go away. You either medicate them, which he should have been doing if it really was a problem, or you have surgury. If he would have had surgury then we would have heard about it.

    His attitude and unhappiness led him to either milk his illness and not play when he could, or he just made stuff up to not play. Either way, I can't congradulate him on finally sucking it up or for giving more effort.

    To me that would be condoning his actions in the past, which I just can't do. Am I glad he's finally matured? Yes, but I'm not so sure it's really maturity. It just seems like he finally got his way and is now a happy camper. What's to say things don't turn south again when he becomes unhappy about something else?

    Real maturity and change is shown through your ability to cope with new or reoccuring problems, not when it's been smooth sailing. (I'm talking about on court things as opposed to being out at clubs and such.)
    I do think that Tinsley's skill set is more aligned with JOb's style. A quicker pace tends to hide JT's weaknesses and accentuate his strengths. That much seems clear to me.

    However, there is some truth to your post. It's clear from JT's comments about JOb, that he's actually distinguishing JOb from RC. Based on those comments, JT did not like RC's coaching and did not respect RC at least in the way RC communicated to him. I think a mature player would rise above these types of issues, and I don't think JT did. I think this gets to the root of why some of us have not been Tinsley fans and why your post has some validity.

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    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    I guess I'm going to end up as the last holdout. I'm still waiting to pass judgement until February. Been burned too many times by the guy. I want to see what he's like when we hit a few of the rough stretches.


    I'm really happy for Jamaal "seeming" to get it, but I'm firmly in your corner about waiting to February before I start to think that he is a changed man on the court. While he is showing that he can be a better teammate, I'm gonna sit back and enjoy it because like it or not, as Jamaal goes...this whole team benefits. There is nothing wrong with him improving his attitude to improve the team. Fools gold or not, I'm glad the team is reaping the rewards of his success and I'm gonna take it as long as I can.

    Keep up the good work, Tinsley & GO PACERS!!!!
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    Default Re: How has Tinsley changed this year

    Really have wanted Jamaal gone now for some time.

    Just everything had sucked. His play, his attitude, his off court troubles.

    However this year is different.

    From what I know, Rick Carlise is the worse coach Jamaal can have. Jim O'Brien is proably the best. I think that has done wonders for him.

    It seems Jamaal is a different person this year too. For the better. So that is great.

    Jamaal was our point guard from 03-05 and for those 2 seasons we had one of the very very best teams in the league that coulda, shoulda, woulda, won it all. So one thing I could never honestly say about Jamaal is he can't play for an NBA championship team.

    I am really really happy to be able to sit here and not complain about Jamaal.

    It's amazing what a few wins will do for you. But it's not really having a winning record. It actually feels like this team is going somewhere. Jamaal plays a big part in that.

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