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Thread: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    I am bolding the quotes by Jermaine O'Neal.

    If what he say's is true, and from what I have seen so far on the court I think it is, then this may be the start of something special.

    http://www.philly.com/dailynews/spor...ldnt_stay.html

    Sixers - O'Brien knew early he wouldn't stay
    By PHIL JASNER
    Philadelphia Daily News

    jasnerp@phillynews.com

    INDIANAPOLIS - It wasn't easy making the 76ers 10 games better than they were the previous season, taking a team that had been in the lottery to the playoffs and getting fired with two guaranteed seasons remaining, but Jim O'Brien found a way to do it.
    There's an old saying: In Philadelphia, you're going to get it, you just don't know when. The fascinating part of O'Brien's experience was that it took only the first month of 2004-05 for O'Brien to know exactly what was coming, not to mention when.

    "I just had a pretty good feeling of the lay of the land as early as December," O'Brien said before coaching the Indiana Pacers to victory over the Sixers last night.

    The Sixers essentially paid him $8 million to leave, giving him the balance of the guaranteed portion of a 4-year contract. Did someone in management or ownership tell him something during that first month that told him he would be one and done?

    "It's observation," he said. "Really, absolutely nothing [else]. Nobody ever said anything. It was just observation of people."

    At the same time, O'Brien admittedly made no effort to take his feelings to anyone above him in the organization.

    "I don't think there was anything that I was doing that I wouldn't continue to do," he said. "I was trying to build a team. I thought we were building it the way I was hired to build it, change the culture."

    In a statement released yesterday via Comcast-Spectacor publicist Ike Richman, chairman Ed Snider said: "I feel this is in the past. It's really water under the bridge. We remain focused on the future of this franchise and don't want to dwell on what may or may not have happened."

    O'Brien has no regrets.

    "We had a team that was out of the playoffs [go] into the playoffs," he said. "I signed a huge contract, so financially it was a windfall [after getting fired], from the standpoint of being able to get a sabattical. I just had the best 2 years of my entire life. I don't regret 1 second of it . . .

    "I went there with the idea - I go to every job with the idea - that I'm going to be there forever. I thought I was brought in to change the culture.

    "Prior to getting there, there was a lot of nonsense going on in the paper. One of the things I said in the interview process was, I would stop that nonsense from going on, from the standpoint of public stuff, players [seen] in a negative media. It just didn't work out, I guess."

    Let the record show, the Pacers love him. Let the record also show O'Brien said, "I think we really have better pieces here than any other place [I've been]."

    "I like him a lot," star big man Jermaine O'Neal said, "because he reminds me of a coach when you're coming through rec league and high school, where they really care more about the person than they do the actual basketball player.

    "We've had some real emotional meetings at this part of the year. As a player, I say I'd go to war for this guy any night. I think all the guys in the locker room feel that way, also."


    O'Brien's style, which includes lots of freedom at the offensive end, is a major change for the holdover Pacers, who were accustomed to the slower pace and more controlling approach of Rick Carlisle. Viewed as stubborn, aloof and difficult with the Sixers, O'Brien is considered by people around the Pacers to be open, friendly, approachable and cooperative.

    "He tells us the offensive end is ours, the defensive end is his," O'Neal said. "We have to play the way he wants us to play [defensively]."

    O'Neal said he had no concern for whatever the problems might have been in Philadelphia.

    "The group of players means everything to a coach," O'Neal said. "The acceptance from the team is something that goes under the radar in sports in general. A lot of teams won't accept the coaching style, the philosophy, demeanor. We accepted the change right away."
    As for what went wrong in Philadelphia . . .

    "Let's put it this way - I didn't fire myself," O'Brien said. "I would say that's a pretty safe bet. Management or people above me decided the culture that I was trying to build was not necessarily the one that they wanted to see built."


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    Mr. Clutch granger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    We finally have Team Chemistry

    AUSTRALIA'S NO.1 PACER FAN

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    "He tells us the offensive end is ours, the defensive end is his," O'Neal said. "We have to play the way he wants us to play [defensively]."
    Brilliant. Simple, but brilliant.

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Yeah you can tell this team is starting to Gel. When we Gel well, and the team gets at 100% the NBA better watch out...thats all im sayin
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    As the crowds get smaller and smaller (this had to be the smallest Conseco crowd I've ever seen, preseason included (OK, maybe the snow game of 3 years agao against the Wizards)
    But the point is I can hear more and more of what O'Brien is saying to the guys and he's pretty tough. In the first quarter as they were coming to the bench for the first timeout, O'Brien yelled in a very strern voice at Owens, "get the ball into the middle please" I know that sounds so polite and everything, but believe me he was upset.

    He also showed visible signs of disgust whenever the pacers missed layups last night

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    As the crowds get smaller and smaller (this had to be the smallest Conseco crowd I've ever seen, preseason included (OK, maybe the snow game of 3 years agao against the Wizards)
    But the point is I can hear more and more of what O'Brien is saying to the guys and he's pretty tough. In the first quarter as they were coming to the bench for the first timeout, O'Brien yelled in a very strern voice at Owens, "get the ball into the middle please" I know that sounds so polite and everything, but believe me he was upset.

    He also showed visible signs of disgust whenever the pacers missed layups last night
    I keep asking myself why more people aren't starting to fall in love with this team. OK, they aren't individually talented, and maybe Indiana has caught Superstar Syndrome from David Stern like the rest of the NBA.

    O'Brien has this team playing the Right Way. They work extremely hard even when they are inconsistent. I've never seen them give up or even blame things on circumstances beyond their control.

    To be honest, for all that people have accused the Indy media of being kiss-ups to the Pacers, this year they've seemed to go the opposite way. We need the media to help build things up, and that just isn't going to happen until the end of the Colts' season.

    If we build some momentum going into the All-Star Break, and the media cooperates, we might see a different attendance profile once the NFL playoffs are over.
    BillS

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He also showed visible signs of disgust whenever the pacers missed layups last night
    He must have been really disgusted at Danny then. I was, and he's my favorite player. I don't cuss or swear, but Danny had me wanting to.

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Nice to see that culture change has worked out for Philly so far. Oh wait...

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    So, any ideas on what they didn't like about JOB in Philly?

    Is it as simple as: Iverson is a punk, and we would rather not work hard--I mean, it's just PRACTICE and all.

    ???
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I keep asking myself why more people aren't starting to fall in love with this team.

    O'Brien has this team playing the Right Way. They work extremely hard even when they are inconsistent. I've never seen them give up or even blame things on circumstances beyond their control.
    It takes time. People tune out, then it takes while for them to notice things are looking better. Even then, they're skeptical - they've been burned before.

    IMO, it will take continued positive momentum, especially going into the playoffs, to start bring the crowds back. The better regular season crowds won't come until next year, at the earliest.

    As for me, I really, really like what I'm seeing.
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    If I didn't know the Pacers record the past 3 or 4 seasons and if I just based my opinons on what most people in Indianapolis say about this team and the number of people that are currently attending the games - I would truly believe that the pacers must have been just a horrible team the past few season, I mean 15 win horrible. But they missed the playoffs one season, they had one losing season (35 wins) and yet 10,200 tickets are sold and people act like the Pacers are a joke of the entire sports world.

    I simply don't understand why so much hate for the team, these players, the NBA and the whole scene. I really do not understand it.

    10,200 tickets sold is really evidence that there is a crises here - I mean that is horrible - that has to be the smallest crowd in the NBA this season - and really it might be the smallest in about 5 seasons - if that number continues that is somehting that will make me believe the team will move out of town. I try not to dwell on it too much (and yes I know the reasons) but if I were the owners, I would be looking to move soon.

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If I didn't know the Pacers record the past 3 or 4 seasons and if I just based my opinons on what most people in Indianapolis say about this team and the number of people that are currently attending the games - I would truly believe that the pacers must have been just a horrible team the past few season, I mean 15 win horrible. But they missed the playoffs one season, they had one losing season (35 wins) and yet 10,200 tickets are sold and people act like the Pacers are a joke of the entire sports world.

    I simply don't understand why so much hate for the team, these players, the NBA and the whole scene. I really do not understand it.
    But it wasn't just about wins and losses.

    The Pacers did their damage with the brawl, then continued with off-court incident after off-court incident. Ron's trade demands, etc.

    IMO, the drop in attendance has much, much more to do with that than with the record.

    People were (and still are, I guess) absolutely embarrassed to be a Pacer fan.

    Trust was broken, and that takes time to earn back.
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Well, considering earlier reports telling us that JO'B was an emotionless stats machine Bill Belichick clone, I'd say this is very good news!

    And, despite not living in Indiana, I absolutely DREAD the prospect of the team moving. That cannot happen! But maybe that low mark was because two of the three worst teams in terms of attendence were playing.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance
    We are 28th! Only about 40 people more per game than the team below us.
    Last edited by LoneGranger33; 12-20-2007 at 10:38 AM.

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Well, considering earlier reports telling us that JO'B was an emotionless stats machine Bill Belichick clone, I'd say this is very good news!
    It had to help JOB that he followed an emotional corpse.

    I like Rick a lot, but passion is not his forte.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    But it wasn't just about wins and losses.

    The Pacers did their damage with the brawl, then continued with off-court incident after off-court incident. Ron's trade demands, etc.

    IMO, the drop in attendance has much, much more to do with that than with the record.

    People were (and still are, I guess) absolutely embarrassed to be a Pacer fan.

    Trust was broken, and that takes time to earn back.
    Those are all good points, and I think you are correct. My guess is people don't like the pacers like they used to for the reasons you cite, but they often don't say all of that, they more often will say they don't like them because the team is terrible.

    People might be absolutely embarrassed to be a Pacers fan - but I'm embarrassed by the lack of fan support and the overall attitude of the city towards this team, this season, right now. I don't think it is right.

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    People might be absolutely embarrassed to be a Pacers fan - but I'm embarrassed by the lack of fan support and the overall attitude of the city towards this team, this season, right now. I don't think it is right.
    Given our team's history, and what we've done to remedy the problems, you'd think the fans would give the Pacers a second chance. I agree with you 100%.

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    I think it's overall a good thing.

    Bad short term. But some of the mistakes by management were so egregious--such a break of trust, several in a row, over a long period of time--that the only way the fan base could "save" the franchise was by making their point known by voting with their feet.

    Yes, it will take time to get back on track. But, early results are showing that the new course will be in line with Indiana standards.

    Another option would have been to watch Larry and Walsh get us back to a decent winning record with the same bad principles, rebellious characters, and lack of discipline that the last few years have brought.

    I think without the protest of the fans this could have happened. And it would have been unacceptable. And it would never have led, long term, to a successful franchise or a championship.

    Thank God for the fans. Thank God it looks like we're headed back on the right road.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    I think JO'B is great. He is everything RC was not. I like to see our coach fired up. He has got this team playing very well and I think if we can get a few more pieces in here we might just compete for a title. Maybe not this year, but soon enough.

    As for the Indiana Pacer fans that live in the area and are able to go to the games but don't. I BOOO them. Wake up and see that you have a competitive and fun team to watch. I know there have been off the court problems, but you have to support your team. I live here in Oakland CA. And I go to Warriors games from time to time. The Warriors fan base is way more supportive of the Warriors then the Pacers fans are of Pacers, at least it seems that way. The fans get up and cheer for their team. I watch 95% of the Pacers games, and I swear the fans sit on there hands for most of the time. God bless Indiana, but the fans need to wake up and get off their conservative butts.
    Last edited by odeez; 12-20-2007 at 11:49 AM.
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Those are all good points, and I think you are correct. My guess is people don't like the pacers like they used to for the reasons you cite, but they often don't say all of that, they more often will say they don't like them because the team is terrible.

    People might be absolutely embarrassed to be a Pacers fan - but I'm embarrassed by the lack of fan support and the overall attitude of the city towards this team, this season, right now. I don't think it is right.
    I think it's most that, but as far as people coming back the fact that IU, Purdue, and Butler are all worth watching right now probably doesn't help the Pacers. I am a huge Pacer fan, but right now, given the choice, I would much rather watch Butler. BTW, Buck, I know you don't like college basketball, but you should catch a Butler game sometime. They are all available online on HLN. They play beautiful basketball.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    But it wasn't just about wins and losses.

    The Pacers did their damage with the brawl, then continued with off-court incident after off-court incident. Ron's trade demands, etc.

    IMO, the drop in attendance has much, much more to do with that than with the record.

    People were (and still are, I guess) absolutely embarrassed to be a Pacer fan.

    Trust was broken, and that takes time to earn back.

    At what point in time did you perform a Vulcan mind meld on me?

    That is two post in a row in this thread that you have said word for word what I was thinking.

    Great minds think alike.

    Before long I guess I'll be humming "straight up" buy Puala Abdul. (inside joke for you outsiders)


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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Those are all good points, and I think you are correct. My guess is people don't like the pacers like they used to for the reasons you cite, but they often don't say all of that, they more often will say they don't like them because the team is terrible.

    People might be absolutely embarrassed to be a Pacers fan - but I'm embarrassed by the lack of fan support and the overall attitude of the city towards this team, this season, right now. I don't think it is right.
    Doug is right UB. This hasn't been a wins and losses issue. People see that we had a legitimate contender until the brawl. That contending would have stood for several years. But player attitudes ripped the heart right out of everything.

    This isn't the time of the year to be passing judgement on the crowds. There is a lot going on with the holidays, etc.

    One thing is interesting. Even here in Iraq, I wouldn't wear my Pacer gear last season because I was embarrassed by the actions of the team - not the record. As a lifelong fan I can deal with the record. But what it took over a three-year period to destroy what the Pacers stood for might take as long to recover.
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Those are all good points, and I think you are correct. My guess is people don't like the pacers like they used to for the reasons you cite, but they often don't say all of that, they more often will say they don't like them because the team is terrible.

    People might be absolutely embarrassed to be a Pacers fan - but I'm embarrassed by the lack of fan support and the overall attitude of the city towards this team, this season, right now. I don't think it is right.
    A guy I work with was offered a free ticket to the Bulls game last week from a friend of his (great seats that his company owns) and he turned him down, because "I'm not gonna go watch a bunch of thugs. That's all that team is, a bunch of thugs. Dunleavy's the only guy I like at all."
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    A guy I work with was offered a free ticket to the Bulls game last week from a friend of his (great seats that his company owns) and he turned him down, because "I'm not gonna go watch a bunch of thugs. That's all that team is, a bunch of thugs. Dunleavy's the only guy I like at all."


    I'm not attacking you, Kegboy, but that is a lame excuse from that guy. If you asked him to back up that point with a lot of evidence based on players on our CURRENT team there's not a whole lot he could give you other than Tinsley's misgivings.

    The unlikable players were Artest (obviously) and arguably Jackson. I wish people would just get the **** over it and go back to the games. It's not like that guy is perfect either.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    A guy I work with was offered a free ticket to the Bulls game last week from a friend of his (great seats that his company owns) and he turned him down, because "I'm not gonna go watch a bunch of thugs. That's all that team is, a bunch of thugs. Dunleavy's the only guy I like at all."
    I've heard the same thing from a lot of people. I just consider them ignorant because they really have no idea what they are talking about. But I never challange them when I talk to them - because it obvious they aren't up for a discussion about it. The really sad thing is there are often racial overtones. (I don't know your co-worker, so I don't know about him, but whenever the thug comment is made, more often than not it is racial).

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    Default Re: I don't mean to start another O'Brien thread but from today's Philly news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I've heard the same thing from a lot of people. I just consider them ignorant because they really have no idea what they are talking about. But I never challange them when I talk to them - because it obvious they aren't up for a discussion about it. The really sad thing is there are often racial overtones. (I don't know your co-worker, so I don't know about him, but whenever the thug comment is made, more often than not it is racial).

    That's mean-spirited. You have no proof of that statement. Even overlooking the "racial" allegation, you can't judge what criteria people use to decide what they approve of or not.

    I don't mean to pick a fight, but it is unreasonable of you to say people are ignorant or "not up to a discussion" because they have decided they can live without the Pacers. Sure, many of the people you are talking about couldn't name this year's line-up. But it is unreasonable to expect them to know. They stopped paying attention months ago for what seemed to them very good reasons, and when they are not paying attention they don't keep up with changes. That is not ignorance on the part of the public.



    Suppose we were kids planning to play ball on a Sunday afternoon, and I really wanted to play but you were indifferent to it. Now suppose it starts raining hard just a while before we were going to start, and you think, "Screw it" and go down in your basement and start playing x-box. (Or, given that it's you and me, let's say you start playing "Rock 'em, Sock 'em Robots"). Anyway, I'm sitting there watching out the window and after a while, the rain stops and I'm thinking, "OK, lets play!" So I call you. What would your answer be? You would say, "We can't play. It's raining." I wouldn't call you ignorant or a racist at that point. The burden would be on me to convince you to go upstairs and look out a window and see for yourself that the rain had stopped.



    The Indianapolis public have no duty or obligation to spend their money in Conseco Fieldhouse. The burden is entirely on the part of PS&E, to 1) present a product that is attractive to a public that has a lot of options, and b) promote than product so convincingly that people will forget what they "know" and begin to choose a night at Conseco over their other options.
    Last edited by Putnam; 12-20-2007 at 01:47 PM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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