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Thread: Mitchell Report

  1. #1
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Mitchell Report

    Okay...I have zero idea where this list actually originated and it came to me in an email from a friend of a friend of a friend.

    So take this all with a HUGE grain of salt.

    But all the rampant and uncomfirmed speculation needs to begin somewhere, right?


    Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams, Kerry Wood, Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi
    Pujols is the only big surprise...and more so that it's pretty dammning if true rather than hard to believe.

    Johnny Damon too, mostly because you'd think after taking steroids you wouldn't still throw like a girl.

    Albert Belle, Milton Bradley, Carl Everett, Gary Sheffield, Jose Offerman and Julian Tavarez, however, not so shocking.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 12-13-2007 at 12:27 PM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    I think that this same list is posted at deadspin.com

    http://deadspin.com/sports/is-this-t...ned-333479.php

    One of the suspicions was that Mitchell (a Red Sox fan & advisor) would not bust any Red Sox players, but since captain Jason Varitek is on there, I guess that suspicion goes out the window.



    Clemens, Damon, and Petitte are the biggies with Pujols and Bagwell. Nobody else seems that surprising.

  3. #3
    Member BoomBaby31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Varitek and Damon really suprise me.

    Sheffield doesn't surprise me one single bit. Pujols doesn't surprise me that much either because he bursted on the scene hitting 30 some homeruns his rookie year. That just doesn't happen.

    My question, does this solitify A-Rod being the best ever? A-Rod is killing everyones numbers and you don't see his name anywhere near steroids. I think Jose mentioned it one time, then quickly retracted it.

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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Pujols is definetely the biggest deal right now. Hes the best player on the list and some would argue the best player in baseball.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Well...looks like half that original list is my first post was BS. Or at least isn't in the initial report -- though ESPN and others are speculating more names will surface.

    But as a Red Sox fan, I'm glad to see that Mo Vaughn is the only big name player we had there, and that's not particularly surprising. Happy to see no Nomar, Tek or Trot.

    And no, I don't count Rogah as a Red Sox. I am pretty glad to see his whole miserable life get tarnished though. Sweet records, buddy. Real Crackerjack job you did of ruining your entire legacy.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    so Damon,Varitek, at. al. are not on there as the initial false report said.

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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    so Damon,Varitek, at. al. are not on there as the initial false report said.
    I'm not seeing Pujols either?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Full Mitchell report PDF:

    http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/...ell_report.pdf

    Glad to see Clemens getting it. I've always hated him.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    so Damon,Varitek, at. al. are not on there as the initial false report said.
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    I'm not seeing Pujols either?
    Nope.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Here's the complete, legit list:


    NEW NAMES

    Chad Allen
    Mike Bell
    Gary Bennett
    Larry Bigbie
    Kevin Brown
    Alex Cabrera
    Mark Carreon
    Jason Christiansen
    Howie Clark
    Roger Clemens
    Jack Cust
    Brendan Donnelly
    Chris Donnels
    Matt Franco
    Eric Gagne
    Matt Herges
    Phil Hiatt
    Glenallen Hill
    Todd Hundley
    Mike Judd
    David Justice
    Chuck Knoblauch
    Tim Laker
    Mike Lansing
    Paul Lo Duca
    Nook Logan
    Josias Manzanillo
    Cody McKay
    Kent Mercker
    Bart Miadich
    Hal Morris
    Daniel Naulty
    Denny Neagle
    Jim Parque
    Andy Pettitte
    Adam Piatt
    Todd Pratt
    Stephen Randolph
    Adam Riggs
    Armando Rios
    Brian Roberts
    F.P. Santangelo
    Mike Stanton
    Ricky Stone
    Miguel Tejada
    Ismael Valdez
    Mo Vaughn
    Ron Villone
    Fernando Vina
    Rondell White
    Jeff Williams
    Todd Williams
    Steve Woodard
    Kevin Young
    Gregg Zaun

    PREVIOUSLY LINKED

    Manny Alexander
    Rick Ankiel
    David Bell
    Marvin Benard
    Barry Bonds
    Ricky Bones
    Paul Byrd
    Jose Canseco
    Paxton Crawford
    Lenny Dykstra
    Bobby Estalella
    Ryan Franklin
    Jason Giambi
    Jeremy Giambi
    Jay Gibbons
    Troy Glaus
    Juan Gonzalez
    Jason Grimsley
    Jose Guillen
    Jerry Hairston Jr.
    Darren Holmes
    Ryan Jorgensen
    Gary Matthews Jr.
    Rafael Palmeiro
    John Rocker
    Benito Santiago
    Scott Schoeneweis
    David Segui
    Gary Sheffield
    Randy Velarde
    Matt Williams

  12. #12
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Ismael Valdez
    This guy may have the best name in recorded human history.

    Say what you want about his character...but he earned that distinction well before he ever started using performance-enhancing substances.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    It will be interesting to see if Clemens gets the full "Barry Bonds treatment".

    I never bought into the race angle, but this will be a test, to see if the "good old Texas white boy" is viewed like the surly and unlikeable Bonds, for the same offenses.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    It will be interesting to see if Clemens gets the full "Barry Bonds treatment".

    I never bought into the race angle, but this will be a test, to see if the "good old Texas white boy" is viewed like the surly and unlikeable Bonds, for the same offenses.


    I always have because I've always suspected him of cheating.

    But to be fair, Bonds did many things to get the press pissed at him, while Clemens has been very media savy.

    But I've always hated Clemens as much as Bonds, and I always assumed he was a steroid user.

  15. #15
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    The front cover of the NY Daily News had a photo of him and Andy with "CHEATERS" as the headline.

    NY Post had him listed first in a group of names with a big syringe/baseball graphic.

    He's getting it pretty bad here.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Chuck Knoblauch is on there? You want to keep kids off steriods?

    Show a video of him throwing the ball to first from 2nd base and just say "this is what steriods does to you".

    Simple enough.

    -- Steve --

  17. #17

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    I think the Mitchell Report is a joke.

    Bud paid millions for this?

    First off, why the hell do you hire someone who has something to do with one of your freaking teams? Maybe Micthell had no bias in his findings, but I just find it funny that he is with the Red Soxs and the big name in his report is a Yankee.

    I just don't know what to believe in this report. A lot of players have used steroids but can't really say totally for sure who.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...t&lid=tab2pos2

    Just some things I found interesting.

    You probably don't even care that two attorneys who were surveyed Thursday, both of whom now work in the sports world, say they're extremely dubious that the allegations against Clemens would hold up in court. Not even in a civil case.

    You might find that surprising, considering that Clemens is one of the few players in this report whose alleged use of illegal substances was actually witnessed by a living, breathing human being (trainer Brian McNamee) who then spoke with the Mitchell crew.

    But one attorney -- a man who doesn't represent players, by the way -- said the entire case is "all based on one guy [McNamee], and there's no documentation."

    True, there are checks written by McNamee to the human smoking gun, Kirk Radomski. But the report tells us, right there on Page 174, that Radomski admitted that McNamee never told him that Clemens (or Andy Pettitte) used steroids or HGH. It was merely implied, Radomski said.

    Those implications were good enough for George Mitchell -- obviously. But the other attorney we surveyed said that in an actual court, a judge would tell a jury that the testimony of a witness like McNamee, who had made a deal with the government, was "not sufficient for conviction. There must be independent corroboration."
    In fact, according to Sean Forman, of baseball-reference.com's amazing play index, 5,148 players have made it into at least one major league box score since 1985, the year Radomski went to work for the Mets.

    So that means that precisely 1.67 percent of them made it into this report. Shockingly exclusive group, wouldn't you say?

    And that leads to the next big question: If the list was that exclusive, shouldn't there have been way more evidence justifying the inclusion of the names that did make it?

    Instead, as one baseball man put it, "I'm in a state of shock that he put some of these names in this report."

    Take Brian Roberts, for example. Nobody in here has a bigger beef than he does.

    What's the "evidence" in his case? An alleged lunch date with Radomski, David Segui and Larry Bigbie -- after which Segui is said to have bought steroids (with Roberts not present). And Bigbie's claim that Roberts told him he used steroids "once or twice," even though Bigbie never witnessed it or even suspected it.

    That's it. No syringes. No empty bottles. No shipping labels. Nada. I can't think of any self-respecting editor I've ever worked for or with who would have allowed me to write a news story based on "evidence" that flimsy. So what's it doing in a report that cost more than the Florida Marlins' entire payroll?

    There are way too many instances of name-dropping much like this, with a blank check here or an address-book listing there, but no true corroboration anywhere. That, however, is because Mitchell admits that his star witness, Radomski, didn't "observe" or "participate" in the actual use of drugs by any of the 53 players he named.
    When you make these types of statements and allegations as George Mitchell did you better have more evidence then what he seems to have. I mean if you don't have clear, solid evidence that basically would hold up in court then don't publish any names because he probably published some innocent names in his report.

    I accept the fact that ALOT of players have used steroids. It's not right but you can't change it. So many of them used them that really I don't think it can hurt their legacy that much.

    I mean really, even if your innocent, if you hit a lot of home runs or were a great pitcher during the steroid era people are going to say, did he take performance enhancing drugs? Even if a player doesn't have the label, there will probably be that question just because he played in that era.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    clemens spent 12 seasons with the red sox, not as many with the yankees. so it hits both franchises.

    there have always been rumors about clemens. idiotic as the report may be, i don't think this is a sox vs. yankees thing.
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    clemens spent 12 seasons with the red sox, not as many with the yankees. so it hits both franchises.

    there have always been rumors about clemens. idiotic as the report may be, i don't think this is a sox vs. yankees thing.
    Well, I agree that it's not a Sox/Yanks thing at all...and that anyone who's been watching baseball for the past decade had A LOT of questions about Clemens and drugs. I mean, dude's legs are like tree trunks.

    But, it doesn't really reflect badly on the Red Sox since he was more than likely "clean" the whole time he was in Boston. Additionally, Red Sox fans couldn't be happier that his whole post-Boston career is now BS in the court of public opinion. Not sure if you've heard, but we pretty much hate the guy. Most Yankees fans aren't particularly fond of him either though. Since he's been such a mercenary, I'm not sure he really even has any fans...even before this all surfaced.

    Meanwhile, the greatest pitcher of this generation debate just lost a member and is now down to three: Maddux, Big Unit and Pedro. And since all us Red Sox fans thought Petey was better than Clemens anyway, we're more than happy to see our real boy have his legacy jump up a notch. And since Randy is so ugly/tall/mullety, Maddux is so boring, and Pedro had two of the greatest pitching seasons of all time with a B on his cap, I think a lot of historians will be holding him pretty, pretty high in like 20 years.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 12-15-2007 at 02:08 PM.
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Well, I agree that it's not a Sox/Yanks thing at all...and that anyone who's been watching baseball for the past decade had A LOT of questions about Clemens and drugs. I mean, dude's legs are like tree trunks.

    But, it doesn't really reflect badly on the Red Sox since he was more than likely "clean" the whole time he was in Boston. Additionally, Red Sox fans couldn't be happier that his whole post-Boston career is now BS in the court of public opinion. Not sure if you've heard, but we pretty much hate the guy. Most Yankees fans aren't particularly fond of him either though. Since he's been such a mercenary, I'm not sure he really even has any fans...even before this all surfaced.

    Meanwhile, the greatest pitcher of this generation debate just lost a member and is now down to three: Maddux, Big Unit and Pedro. And since all us Red Sox fans thought Petey was better than Clemens anyway, we're more than happy to see our real boy have his legacy jump up a notch. And since Randy is so ugly/tall/mullety, Maddux is so boring, and Pedro had two of the greatest pitching seasons of all time with a B on his cap, I think a lot of historians will be holding him pretty, pretty high in like 20 years.
    i agree. rommie's issue was that the big name was a yankee with mitchell having an interest in the red sox. all i was saying was i don't think most people are saying "oh look there are more yankees than red sox. red sox are clean, yankees are dirty." i mean i say that anyway but it has nothing to do with the mitchell report. i don't think people look at this and say one organization is more at fault than another this is a baseball-wide issue. clemens was the big name but it wasn't being a yankee that did it.
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 12-15-2007 at 04:08 PM.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Why hasn't Selig resigned?
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  22. #22

    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    i agree. rommie's issue was that the big name was a yankee with mitchell having an interest in the red sox. all i was saying was i don't think most people are saying "oh look there are more yankees than red sox. red sox are clean, yankees are dirty." i mean i say that anyway but it has nothing to do with the mitchell report. i don't think people look at this and say one organization is more at fault than another this is a baseball-wide issue. clemens was the big name but it wasn't being a yankee that did it.
    I just don't like someone such as George Mitchell, who is involed with one team, heading the investagation of such a big time issue. I don't think that it is good no matter who he names. The fact that he is with the Red Sox and he names so many with ties to the Yankees, well known Yankees, it just looks bad IMO. No matter what his intent was I really question the credibility of his report.

    But the fact that the report seems to be centered around a well known Yankee, it will raise some questions. I believe Mitchell named 9 players from the Yankee's 2000 Champhionship club. If I was a Yankee's fan I would have a big problem with that. For a league wide problem, we all known that there are ALOT more players that have used steroids, you would think he could have some solid evidence against the players he does name.

    I'll admit, I have a hard time believing that Clemens didn't take steroids. But you really need some solid, evidence if you are going to name people.

    I don't know what I have a harder time understanding, the fact that Bud Selig paid millions for George Mitchell to tell him his league has had a steroid problem or the fact that Bud is still baseball's commissioner.

  23. #23
    Member BoomBaby31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    It will be interesting to see if Clemens gets the full "Barry Bonds treatment".

    I never bought into the race angle, but this will be a test, to see if the "good old Texas white boy" is viewed like the surly and unlikeable Bonds, for the same offenses.
    If ESPN doesn't conduct the same "race polls" for Clemens as Bonds their integrity is hot into the water.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBaby31 View Post
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    If ESPN doesn't conduct the same "race polls" for Clemens as Bonds their integrity is hot into the water.
    ESPN has integrity?
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    Default Re: Mitchell Report

    Pettitte comes clean. He admits using HGH.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3156305

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