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Thread: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    This quote by Uncle Buck in another thread makes me wonder if something very important may have happened with our most important player:

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Not sure it was noticeable on TV, but there was a two on one fast break where danny had the ball in the middle and david harrison was wide open on the right side but danny didn't pass him the ball and Danny ended up charging. Tinsley got all over him about not passing the ball to David. And Garnger does that a lot, - but I liked seeing JT yelling at him. And sure enough a few minutes later Danny drove into the lane and was cut off, but made a nice pass to Rush for a three pointer.
    If interactions like these continue to occur, and grow in number, this team could really go somewhere.

    In the past, I don't see JT having the moral authority to talk to teammates this way. It's hard to demand total excellence from others when you yourself don't demand total excellence of yourself. What's changed?

    I'm wondering if literally dodging several bullets may end up being the very thing Tins needed to get serious about basketball and become the mature leader we need to take us far into the playoffs.

    Let's face it, Tins is the typical guy who has skated by on talent. He is enormously talented. But he's been a slacker on defense, an irresponsible one-on-one street baller, and an off-the-court party man.

    He gets away with it because of talent. We all know guys like him. Some of them never grow up. But some of them have epiphanies at some point in life and rock their worlds.

    I'm hoping that this may have happened to our "mercurial" point guard.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 12-13-2007 at 11:44 AM.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Tinsley has really been a more vocal leader on the court all year.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    I've heard from many members of the media -like kevin Lee, Mark Boyle, Slick, and Milke Wells that Tinsley is much happier, and more talkative with his teammates then ever before.

    Not sure why that is but it has to be more than just the coaching change, my guess is that perhaps he changed his life some in the offseason
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-13-2007 at 01:25 PM.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    On the overall theme... If getting shot at by an assault rifle and escaping unscathed doesn't get you to re-evaluate your life and reconsider your priorities, then I would suspect nothing will.

    ...Tough way to learn a lesson though...

    -Bball
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    They said in one of the recent Pacer broadcasts that JOB and Tinsley have developed almost a father-son relationship; that's probably done something in terms of Tins' comfort level.

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    I would say Tinsley has already become a different player and it comes down to having a coach who "gets him".

    UB could be right something in his personal life may have also changed in the off season but I would say the most likely thing is the coaching change.

    He had to deal with 4 years of a coach who hated the style of ball he is best suited for.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    On the overall theme... If getting shot at by an assault rifle and escaping unscathed doesn't get you to re-evaluate your life and reconsider your priorities, then I would suspect nothing will.

    ...Tough way to learn a lesson though...

    -Bball
    Agreed.

    But, extreme as it is, even such obvious lessons aren't always learned by the recipient. (See O.J.)

    In this case, we're all hoping it does (or did).
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    I think the factors of Tins being more of a leader are that he buys into and feels ownership of the system.

    In years past what was he going to yell? "Wait til JO gets the ball then stand around."
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    I think the factors of Tins being more of a leader are that he buys into and feels ownership of the system.

    In years past what was he going to yell? "Wait til JO gets the ball then stand around."
    Yeah thats a big part of it. This Tinsley's car to drive ().

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    My question would be if Rick was never here and we went straight from Isiah to JOB, would we have seen this Jamaal for the last 4 years? Or did to see the darkness before he could see the light?

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    Good Job Larry! Indianapolis_girly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    On the overall theme... If getting shot at by an assault rifle and escaping unscathed doesn't get you to re-evaluate your life and reconsider your priorities, then I would suspect nothing will.

    ...Tough way to learn a lesson though...

    -Bball
    Agreed.


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    you don't know what the hell you're
    doing.
    ..Peyton Manning.

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    I think the factors of Tins being more of a leader are that he buys into and feels ownership of the system.

    In years past what was he going to yell? "Wait til JO gets the ball then stand around."
    May help since SC is pimping him in the highlights of the Chicago game. Still, they squeaked it in at the end of the show before Top 10 and showed more coverage of most of every other game.

    -----Biased Pacer Fan

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Noticed him bearhug Harrsion once to to clam him down when DH
    was barking after a foul call. Almost had to do a double take.

    This team isn't gonna make anyone forget the 72-win, Bulls squad.
    But watching them play last night I just shook my head at all
    the wasted time with RC at the helm the last year or two...

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Plain and simple Rick was the wrong coach for the Pacers. He is a good coach if you give him the right players but the players we had were not right for him.

    I know we won 61 games the first year Rick was here but there were some wasted ones early on where he was still refusing to play Jamaal. I think we could have gone to the finals with a coach like Obie.

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    Plain and simple Rick was the wrong coach for the Pacers. He is a good coach if you give him the right players but the players we had were not right for him.

    I know we won 61 games the first year Rick was here but there were some wasted ones early on where he was still refusing to play Jamaal. I think we could have gone to the finals with a coach like Obie.

    he would not have been able to stop the Brawl - nor the injury to JO and a few others in the 61 win season...

    its not Ricks fault we stuttered - you can put the blame on the low IQ and tough luck

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    Member Mr.ThunderMakeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    Plain and simple Rick was the wrong coach for the Pacers. He is a good coach if you give him the right players but the players we had were not right for him.

    I know we won 61 games the first year Rick was here but there were some wasted ones early on where he was still refusing to play Jamaal. I think we could have gone to the finals with a coach like Obie.
    If we had any other coach besides Rick Carlisle we never would have even won 61 games, let alone win a title. Carlisle is the only person to ever successfully coach Ron Artest and Ron's improved behavior that season is the main reason we had 61 wins.

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    If we had any other coach besides Rick Carlisle we never would have even won 61 games, let alone win a title. Carlisle is the only person to ever successfully coach Ron Artest and Ron's improved behavior that season is the main reason we had 61 wins.
    WHAT???!!! How was he successful in coaching Ron Artest? He's the main reason Ron wanted out!

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    I hope so. We need him to do that!!!
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    WHAT???!!! How was he successful in coaching Ron Artest? He's the main reason Ron wanted out!
    He might have wanted out - but Rick did a great job in utilizing Ron's talents. Both on offense and defense

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    WHAT???!!! How was he successful in coaching Ron Artest? He's the main reason Ron wanted out!



    The problem is Ron doesn't know what he wants.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    WHAT???!!! How was he successful in coaching Ron Artest? He's the main reason Ron wanted out!
    Number of times Ron won DPOY or made the all-star team or was on an ECF team? And who was his coach. End of debate.

    As for hurting the 61 win team, holy crap. They were on pace for something like 59 wins with KENNY ANDERSON starting. And Rick didn't injure anyone, he certainly worked to avoid overloading anyone with minutes (few players have seen big workloads under Rick). And I'm 100% certain that no Rick drill featured Reggie laying it up soft for a monster Prince block.


    Look, when it takes things like "red IS green" (ie, winning was bad) to make logical sense of the idea that Rick was a bad coach then maybe it's time to reevaluate the point of view. Rick also coached the post-brawl team, the one that was so wonderful in that Orlando loss the next time out according the the anti-"thug" crowd.

    The reports in the press on Tinsley LAST YEAR were similar to some of the stuff we are seeing this year. The new running game they were putting in place had him enthused and the atmosphere was totally different. Army's energy was infecting everyone which included Tinsley STANDING on the sideline cheering on his teammates.

    I'm so sick of revisionist history on this subject.

    Tins has been giving the green light to shoot like crazy despite a horrid FG% and to chuck it all over the place despite the higher TOs. He damn sure should be happy, he's being coddled. There is no PG looking over his shoulder brought in by BIRD (ala Saras, AJ). He's getting tons of minutes too.

    I'm not even against all this, but can someone explain how Tinsley leading this team to .500 is better than Tinsley leading last year's team to the same sort of start? Or has everyone lost their freaking minds when it comes to remembering what they didn't like about last year's team? Why make a trade last year if the 6th seed at .500 is good enough?


    JOB has gotten a lot more out of this roster than Rick did. Rick did not have the summer with them, but I think it's a bit more than that when I see the improvement with David. Of course Mike Dun didn't come close to hitting 40% from 3pt either and I don't think that's just coaching. I think that's on Mike too.


    This remains a hot button to me because it's so dogmatic, there isn't the faintest sign of questioning the logic behind the viewpoint. And in regards to Tinsley there have been rumors about him that were discussed at PD parties before. I would wonder if something on that front hasn't improved and in turn improved his own life/health.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    NP-

    Pretty good point. Bottom line though for me (probably a more
    casual Pacer fan than many on this board) is that the Pacers
    are much more enjoyable to watch this year.

    I could care less wether JT is 'happy' or not. He seems to be
    playing more effeiciently which is all that counts. Of course,
    an arguement can be made that speaks ill of him as a true
    pro shouldn't need to be 'happy' to play the right way.

    But back to my original point, I'll take .500 playing O'B style ball
    over .500 playing RC's boring, methodical, paint-by-numbers
    style any day.

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    Default Re: Might the "incident" lead to Tinsley's long-needed turnaround?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    As for hurting the 61 win team, holy crap. They were on pace for something like 59 wins with KENNY ANDERSON starting. And Rick didn't injure anyone, he certainly worked to avoid overloading anyone with minutes (few players have seen big workloads under Rick). And I'm 100% certain that no Rick drill featured Reggie laying it up soft for a monster Prince block.
    I have to take exception to this. There is NO WAY IN HELL we win 59 games with Kenny Anderson as the starting pg. We started well but you seem to have forgotten that once the league adjusted to us we became a .500 team until Mike Brown put Tinsley in. Rick was forced to play him since he was SO CLEARLY superior to Kenny and AJ.

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