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Thread: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    The last 1/3 of the column is about the Pacers, Isiah and Jamaal. I don't think this ever has been mentioned before. And I cannot believe so few of his teammates went to the funeral.



    http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/...story_6054.htm


    THE UNTOLD STORY
    By PETER VECSEY


    December 4, 2007 -- IN theory, Cablevision is a communications conglomerate. Daily we're bombarded with commercials boasting about its capability of putting subscribers in instant touch with the world by phone, TV and the Internet.
    Yet the company's decision-makers at Madison Square Garden could not or would not relay a life-and-death message to an employee in the same building Sunday night until he finished his job.

    Immediately upon learning Donald Marbury Sr. had suffered chest pains and left the Knicks-Suns game at halftime for the hospital, where he died soon after, those in authority should have apprised Stephon of his already ailing dad's condition.

    They flagrantly failed to do so.

    Who doesn't find this both incomprehensible and reprehensible?

    As usual, Steve Mills and Isiah Thomas had no clue how to deal with a critical situation.

    Once again, the Garden president and Knicks president/coach handled things ineptly and inappropriately.

    Even if Mills and Thomas were not aware of what had happened to Donald Sr. until the Suns' 11-point victory had been concluded, even if it was the fault of some other dope down their cheesy chain of command (surely someone in security knew an ambulance was called for the 68-year-old), the buck stops at the bosses, starting with Chuck and James Dolan.

    Isn't that what Thomas finally owned up to recently? Isn't that what he keeps telling us? That "It's on me!" Well, it is on Thomas, and it's on Mills, and most of all it's on the "May We Offer Our ConDolances."

    Together this familiarity of fools has created a contaminated atmosphere at the Garden where irrationality and insensitivity rules, and underlings conduct themselves accordingly, petrified to say or do anything without the expressed consent of Sonny Superior.

    What an inexcusable fiasco!

    Imagine how we'd feel had our old man, sitting just rows away, required a stretcher and we weren't at once alerted.

    Imagine how we'd feel had our employer taken it upon himself to hold back such serious info for whatever obtuse reason.

    Imagine how we'd feel had someone denied us possibly a last chance to see and talk to our father while he was still alive.

    Reports claim a family member said not to burden Stephon with the emergency. As if the game were more important. The reality is, it wasn't up to Mills or Thomas or any other dimwit down the food chain to keep the plight of Donald Sr. on the down low. This was his father. As soon as Garden personnel knew there was a crisis, Stephon deserved to be the very next person to hear about it; let him decide what to do.

    Both Mills and Thomas have lost fathers. They should know better. Whom were they trying to protect, Stephon or the Knicks? Thomas is on the record saying he'd trade his mother to improve the team (i.e., win). At the start of the fourth quarter, the Knicks only trailed the Suns by one.

    Am I being way too harsh? Stick around for the column closer and then decide.

    Before going there, Mills and Thomas are so over their heads they even mismanaged the postgame information process. With an opportunity to pretend they're a class organization and explain to the media - at Isiah's ritualistic postgame press conference - what had happened, everything was kept a secret for 45 minutes or more.

    We're told the Knicks didn't want any members of the Marbury family to first hear about Donald's death on the 11 o'clock news.

    Sounds like another one of Thomas' genius thoughts. How long has it been since anybody near a TV isn't also equipped with a cell or conventional phone? Bad news travels fast, especially within a family as supportive and in touch with each other as the Marbury clan.

    What Thomas should've done was to inform the media of the tragedy, ask it to respect Marbury's grief/privacy if you see him in the locker room or hallway, and to please restrict questions strictly to the game.

    What Thomas should've told the gathering is this: "We know you have a job to do and deadlines to meet, but right now we're a shaken team, our prayers go out to Stephon and his family, but right now you know as much as we do about this."

    Instead Thomas left everybody wondering why he refused to discuss the first few minutes of the fourth quarter when the game got away from the Knicks. Is that when Marbury "actually" found out his father had left? Did he hear it from Thomas or a family friend?

    Either way, if indeed that happened, you'd think Thomas would've been sufficiently concerned about his player's head and heart to get him out of the game and on his way to the hospital. But after all the craziness and unanswered questions that continue to surround Marbury's recent AWOL (involving, ironically, these same Suns), I guess that would be too much common sense to expect.

    Let's face it, if this weren't one of the NBA's all-time dysfunctional operations and wasn't run by aberrant behaviorists I wouldn't be throwing this out there.

    Additionally, I know things about Thomas that convinced me long ago he cares little about his players and mostly about saving his job; winning is somewhere in between.

    Jamaal Tinsley grew up an Isiah Thomas fan, the reason he wears No. 11, yet found out early as a Pacer how quickly Isiah would write you off if you didn't put him ahead of personal matters.

    When Jamaal needed time off to visit his cancer-stricken mother in Maryland during the '02-'03 season, Thomas offered none of his infamous love or even a little sympathy. In fact, had team president Donnie Walsh not given permission, I'm not so sure Jamaal would've been excused.

    When Jamaal's mother died March 24, 2003, the Pacers chartered a plane on an ensuing practice day to take the team to the Brooklyn wake. Only four teammates were decent enough human beings to make the trip: Jeff Foster, Jonathan Bender, Al Harrington and one other whose name escapes me.

    Team captain Reggie Miller, who comes from a solid family and should know better and rags players on TNT for not doing the right thing on and off the court, stayed home.

    So did Thomas; you remember him, that great leader of men often heard spouting how youngbloods need strong guidance and a positive example. How can a coach ask players to dig in on defense as a team and not insist they comfort a teammate as a unit?

    Worse yet, Thomas forbid his assistant coaches to board the charter.

    No matter how much success Larry Bird attains in Indiana he'll never top that first command to fire Thomas.


    peter.vecsey@nypost.com
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-04-2007 at 09:55 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Interest stuff from Vescey. Stuff from Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    I can believe so few went as the imminent implosion of that "team" was what kept them from attaining success. It was a talented bunch that couldn't keep their cool, be responsible and play basketball

  3. #3

    Default Re: Interest stuff from Vescey. Stuff from Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    I was shaking my head throughout this article, but it didn't spin all the way around until this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Vecsey
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    Worse yet, Thomas forbid his assistant coaches to board the charter.
    The mind boggles.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Member SycamoreKen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interest stuff from Vescey. Stuff from Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Wow, Thomas really is not a good person, is he? It is too bad more of the guys didn't support Tins at that time. I'm sure they had their reasons, but it is hard to believe they wouldn't have gone to be there for him.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    That's just weird.
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    I really liked Thomas when he went to IU. I also thought he was a class individual. Then I started hearing things. When I read about him ignoring an officer of the law and driving around a wreck on I-465 is when I decided he wasn't a good guy.

    As he has proved time and again he just cares about himself.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Before I judge the players too harshly, I'd like to know how much pressure Isiah put on the players to not attend the funeral.

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Before I judge the players too harshly, I'd like to know how much pressure Isiah put on the players to not attend the funeral.
    Might be on to something there...

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Before I judge the players too harshly, I'd like to know how much pressure Isiah put on the players to not attend the funeral.
    if pressure was the reason, you'd think it'd be the newer guys (like foster, bender, etc) that would be afraid to go and seasoned vets (like reggie) who would be willing to disregard pressure. its reggie freaking miller... was zeke gonna bench him?
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Before I judge the players too harshly, I'd like to know how much pressure Isiah put on the players to not attend the funeral.

    IT? Showing a lack of class? Noooooo

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Maybe this is a clue in Jamaal's reasoning for not returning to the team after the funeral for quite some time.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Maybe this is a clue in Jamaal's reasoning for not returning to the team after the funeral for quite some time.

    -Bball
    Yeah, this was a year of chaos and I gave Jamaal a pass on this season because of having to go through this.

    Isiah, my childhood hero, disgusts me. This just clinches it for me... IT is a piece of crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Maybe Isiah's antics were the reason for that season's collapse. Right around the All-Star break, the team had the best record in the East.

    Everything went downhill from there, culminating with the #6 seed Celtics eliminating the #3 seed Pacers in the playoffs.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    Maybe Isiah's antics were the reason for that season's collapse. Right around the All-Star break, the team had the best record in the East.

    Everything went downhill from there, culminating with the #6 seed Celtics eliminating the #3 seed Pacers in the playoffs.
    I have always thought that Isiah was to blame for the collapse. There were other possible reason, JT's Mother, Croshere father-in-law I think died and JO found his step-father after he tried to commit suicide and there were injuries and a brutal March schedule, but isiah losing the team and the players tuning IT out was by far the biggest reason for the collapse. There was also the Artest stuff. But I'll never forget some of the things Mark and Slick said about Isiah after he was fired, similar things they continue to say about Isiah.

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No matter how much success Larry Bird attains in Indiana he'll never top that first command to fire Thomas. [/b]

    peter.vecsey@nypost.com
    LOL, that is sig worthy. Great line by Vescey.
    No matter how much success Larry Bird attains in Indiana he'll never top that first command to fire Thomas. -Peter Vecsey. NY Post 12/4/07

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I have always thought that Isiah was to blame for the collapse. There were other possible reason, JT's Mother, Croshere father-in-law I think died and JO found his step-father after he tried to commit suicide and there were injuries and a brutal March schedule, but isiah losing the team and the players tuning IT out was by far the biggest reason for the collapse. There was also the Artest stuff. But I'll never forget some of the things Mark and Slick said about Isiah after he was fired, similar things they continue to say about Isiah.

    Can you drop a few anecdotes here? I've never heard them and I don't listen to the games on the radio.

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    What timing.....I wonder if Zeke is going to let Marbury attend his father's funeral.

    With all the "stuff" that Marbury has on Zeke.....I would guess that Zeke would charter the plane that Marbury is going to fly out on.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  18. #18
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Can you drop a few anecdotes here? I've never heard them and I don't listen to the games on the radio.
    They both said soon after he was fired that he'll never get another chance to coach in the NBA. Maybe someone else can help my memory. What was it with Mercer, Slick said something about how Isiah handled Mercer. I was shocked how little respect both of them had for Isiah. Mark was on WIBC a couple of months ago and had no explanation for why isiah was still employed by the Knicks.

    My memory is failing me about other specifics - not sure if any of the old threads are still around. I might do a quick search.

    Edit: i did do a search, but couldn't find the exact comments from mark and Slick after Isiah was fired. There were some references to it, but not the actual quotes
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-04-2007 at 02:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Well there is that one certain person on this board that could probably shed a tad bit more light on Mr. Boyle's and Slick's personal opinion.

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Well there is that one certain person on this board that could probably shed a tad bit more light on Mr. Boyle's and Slick's personal opinion.
    Mark's not going to come on here and say anything.





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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Even if it's one out of two million, you're still tellin me there's a chance!

    Now I just need a pic of Lloyd.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Isiah = Egomaniac. Simple as that.

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Wow. That almost leaves you without words. Thomas's actions telling the assistant coaches not to go are inexcusable. As to the player's who didn't go I sincerely hope they had prior commitments that kept them from attending. Props to Jeff, JB, and Al for going to the funeral.

    Thomas is a piece of crap as far as I am concerned. A bad GM, an even worse coach, and it would appear a horrible friend and human being.

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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    Isiah even has played the race card on Bird, saying that if Bird was black he would be considered just an average NBA player. He and another player made that comment back when Bird was still playing. Magic Johnson set him straight and Isiah quickly apologised for making the comment. Isiah is all about Isiah.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Interesting stuff from Vescey. From Isiah's days as Pacers coach

    I wonder if Zeke was always like this, or if a certain ex-coach at IU had any kind of influence on him.

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