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Thread: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Cool LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271125011

    James, who did more than his share of trash talking, gained respect for the Pacers as the game progressed.

    "They're more up-and-down," he said. "I think [Pacers coach Jim] O'Brien has definitely put them in a position to win ball games because they run up-and-down. They have the athletes to do that, and they have the point guard that's going to lead them. I like what I'm seeing."
    Sounds like he likes Tins as well.

  2. #2

    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    I wonder if Cleveland would like to trade for him. JO and Tins for anything that can wear a uniform would be OK by me.

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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsforlife View Post
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    I wonder if Cleveland would like to trade for him. JO and Tins for anything that can wear a uniform would be OK by me.
    I don't want anything the CAVs have except Lebron and maybe Z. I would say all of our starters are better than any of theirs, except for those 2. Hughes is a question mark, but he is injury prone and shoots a low percentage.
    Pacers!

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    sweabs
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    We play a fun style of basketball, that the players enjoy. People would enjoy playing in a system like this...that's why you have guys like Gilbert & Lebron complimenting.

    It's just such a big change. Players must have, at times, seen the way we played last year and said to themselves "God, that looks horrible."

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey View Post
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    We play a fun style of basketball, that the players enjoy. People would enjoy playing in a system like this...that's why you have guys like Gilbert & Lebron complimenting.

    It's just such a big change. Players must have, at times, seen the way we played last year and said to themselves "God, that looks horrible."
    However in fairness to Rick Carlisle I must make one small observation based on the two names you have just mentioned.

    What else was differant when we played vs. the Wizards the first time and vs. the Cavs. today?

    I think if you look you will see that a certain player is missing from both of those games.

    Rick ran a motion offense in the 90's, Rick ran a non-isolation dominated offense in Detroit, Rick ran an uptempo quicker moving offense during the year of suspensions.

    There really is about only one time that I know of that Rick ran the complete totall slow down one man in three men out and one half way offense.


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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    However in fairness to Rick Carlisle I must make one small observation based on the two names you have just mentioned.

    What else was differant when we played vs. the Wizards the first time and vs. the Cavs. today?

    I think if you look you will see that a certain player is missing from both of those games.

    Rick ran a motion offense in the 90's, Rick ran a non-isolation dominated offense in Detroit, Rick ran an uptempo quicker moving offense during the year of suspensions.

    There really is about only one time that I know of that Rick ran the complete totall slow down one man in three men out and one half way offense.
    I hate, I hate, I hate that your posts not only make sense to me but also as I read them I'm nodding along thinking of how we can salvage JO's trade value. I also hate that I was happy to see Jeff Foster starting along Troy Murphy today. JO has served this city well, he deserves better than that. Unfortunately, this season has been tough for those of us who still try to defend him.

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    sweabs
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    However in fairness to Rick Carlisle I must make one small observation based on the two names you have just mentioned.

    What else was differant when we played vs. the Wizards the first time and vs. the Cavs. today?

    I think if you look you will see that a certain player is missing from both of those games.

    Rick ran a motion offense in the 90's, Rick ran a non-isolation dominated offense in Detroit, Rick ran an uptempo quicker moving offense during the year of suspensions.

    There really is about only one time that I know of that Rick ran the complete totall slow down one man in three men out and one half way offense.
    Great points. I remember Chauncey Billups was a lot of fun to watch under Carlisle.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey View Post
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    We play a fun style of basketball, that the players enjoy. People would enjoy playing in a system like this...that's why you have guys like Gilbert & Lebron complimenting.

    It's just such a big change. Players must have, at times, seen the way we played last year and said to themselves "God, that looks horrible."
    Neither player would swap spots with JO right now. Both players have now beaten this "fun" team.

    I'm betting that Lebron hated getting beat up on by Artest for Thanksgiving, probably thought that system was annoying and dull despite the 22 point drubbing it handed to him. Personally I loved it. I'll take the Pacers making me happy over the Pacers making Lebron happy any day.


    I'm not so anti JOB really, but I just can't believe people rushing to fawn over 6-8 because Arenas and Lebron said things look better. I don't need Kobe or someone to tell me if I'm watching a .500 or worse team or not, and I'm really sick of people telling me how much nicer a non-playoff team is compared to team that can get to the 2nd round or more.

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Neither player would swap spots with JO right now. Both players have now beaten this "fun" team.

    I'm betting that Lebron hated getting beat up on by Artest for Thanksgiving, probably thought that system was annoying and dull despite the 22 point drubbing it handed to him. Personally I loved it. I'll take the Pacers making me happy over the Pacers making Lebron happy any day.


    I'm not so anti JOB really, but I just can't believe people rushing to fawn over 6-8 because Arenas and Lebron said things look better. I don't need Kobe or someone to tell me if I'm watching a .500 or worse team or not, and I'm really sick of people telling me how much nicer a non-playoff team is compared to team that can get to the 2nd round or more.
    I don't think anybody is comparing this team to the 03-04 or 04-05 teams...rather the 05-06 (post-Artest) and 06-07 teams.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    I don't think anybody is comparing this team to the 03-04 or 04-05 teams...rather the 05-06 (post-Artest) and 06-07 teams.
    No, I assure you that some are. I could name names even but I won't get into that silly bickering at this point. Suffice to say that there has been a general attitude of Rick ball = boring, JOB = a day at the happy fun-time circus.

    All the rants and debates about Rick you see me in (and Jackson/GS deal, JO's value, etc) are specifically because of what we see now. This losing team gets labeled fun, and therefore is exonerated from lackluster results, while Rick was literally fired for losing at roughly the same rate after 3 playoff seasons and 2 top 5 coach of the year votes while in Indy (following 2 in DET, including a win).


    I'm not oblivious to the concept of uptempo play and the excitement it brings, but I watch PHX and GS and DAL play besides when they face Indy and there is simply no comparison. What I see JOB getting out of this group on offense is no more aesthetically pleasing than what Rick finagled out of a constantly depleted roster for years on end.

    There are sparks and signs from guys, Harrison has apparently started to see the light, but there is no way this is dramatically better than the 7-7 Pacers of last season, and that featured Jackson mired in I think his worst month of 3pt shooting in his entire career (ie it was at it's ugliest).


    Discount the T-day game from 2 seasons ago, fine. Last year Lebron saw his team lose to the Pacers by 10 on Nov 24th, basically the exact same game they just played yesterday (home, time of year). JO was 8-15 for 29 points, 4 blocks, 5 assists. Only his 6 rebounds were a sub-par number. Again, if I'm voting then I vote for that game vs Sunday's game, regardless of how they appealed to Lebron's taste.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 11-26-2007 at 03:06 AM.

  11. #11
    sweabs
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    I hate to break it to you, Seth, but fun has something to do with this all. It's kind of important that the players actually enjoy the system, whether you want to believe it or not.

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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    They took away some of Rick's core players in a midseason trade. If they had let him coach the style of ball he is best at coaching (an initiative they are pushing with Obie), I would have liked to see the results. They valued style over substance. "I'm sorry, but you're winning games in a boring way."

    Game 8 tirade. Side with JO. Clean up the image. Paint Rick as a fall guy.

    He coached a team with mediocre talent admirably. I wish him luck in future endeavors. With any luck, he'll be next in line after Doc Rivers' next screw up.

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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    i think the only way rick would still be here is if the team would have improved in some way every year (remember bird has a 3 yr. coach rule or something). many other problems caused this team to fail. some players were traded away, some couldn't be traded for a "fair" deal. there were alot of things wrong here, not just his coaching style. he wasn't the victim, just a victim that probably knew it was coming and wanted it to happen so his resume wouldn't be stained any further.

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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    If you were Lebron James, what would you "like" to see from a team in your division? I'd like to see them losing to me too.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Strip it down all you like, but I see positive changes in this team from last year. If it doesn't bottom out, I see them being better for it. Not just from improvement by the young guys, either.

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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Hey Seth,

    Rick's not comming back, so why do you want to keep pissing on everyone's parade? Look, most of us know that this team is not better then in the recent past, and I'm willing to bet most here reallize that the GSW trade isn't comming up all roses, but are willing to move on with any positives we can get from what we have.


    Seth, my question to you is...what do you suggest to fix what ills this team? Whineing about who is not here isn't going to fix anything.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Good riddance to both Rick Carlisle and Stephen Jackson, IMO. I don't miss either of them in the least, and I'm willing to bet that if they were both still here we'd be no better than we currently are; quite possibly worse.

  18. #18

    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    I think the Pacers can be a very good team in a few years if they can address their PG situation. Tins is downright awful, not the kind of guy you want running your offense. Also, if you can get an athletic PF that can run up and down to replace JO you'd be set. Your very deep at the C position with Harrison, Murphy, etc. in a conference that doesn't require big centers.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsforlife View Post
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    I wonder if Cleveland would like to trade for him. JO and Tins for anything that can wear a uniform would be OK by me.
    Tinsley for Shannon Brown and Ira Newble would make me a happy boy.
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    For me, there is a big difference right now between Rick and JOB.

    JOB is TALKING about the problems and pointing them out. I never heard Rick say that guys are just standing on the perimeter and need to cut.

    I never heard Rick call guys out and talk about guys missing defensive assignments, like JOB did after this game (likely Tinsley failing to reverse rotate).

    I never heard Rick publicly say he wasn't going to put up with Harrison's antics.

    Now, JOB hasn't yet turned all his talk into action. But we can certainly already guess that JOB isn't deferring to players in the same way Rick seemed to. And we can assume that JOB is talking directly to these players, confronting and challenging them.

    We haven't see the changes yet, at least not completely. But the ingredients for change seem to be on the table. Let's hope it eventually happens.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Hey Seth,

    Rick's not comming back, so why do you want to keep pissing on everyone's parade? Look, most of us know that this team is not better then in the recent past, and I'm willing to bet most here reallize that the GSW trade isn't comming up all roses, but are willing to move on with any positives we can get from what we have.


    Seth, my question to you is...what do you suggest to fix what ills this team? Whineing about who is not here isn't going to fix anything.

    Gnome, that is what I have been telling him to no avail. You play the games with the players you have not the ones that are loooooong goooone.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    Gnome, that is what I have been telling him to no avail. You play the games with the players you have not the ones that are loooooong goooone.
    This is true. But most people go to a Pacers discussion forum to talk about wouldas, couldas, shouldas and might-bes.

    I, on the other hand, just come to make bad jokes.
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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Hey Seth,

    Rick's not comming back, so why do you want to keep pissing on everyone's parade? Look, most of us know that this team is not better then in the recent past, and I'm willing to bet most here reallize that the GSW trade isn't comming up all roses, but are willing to move on with any positives we can get from what we have.


    Seth, my question to you is...what do you suggest to fix what ills this team? Whineing about who is not here isn't going to fix anything.
    The pissing is still being done on the Rick parade, that's my issue. Every day is another chance to say "see, with Rick and Jack gone...".

    What's the point of saying that? Why do people say stuff like that? Because it's an ongoing debate about how to fix the team from last year that still hasn't been resolved. That's how these things work. Just like we won't stop debating draft picks for years to come, you want to see the results of a choice pan out to back one POV or the other.

    Right now a lot of posters have serious emotions invested in JOB being better than Rick and in that GS trade working out for Indy. My biggest problem is exactly that, they've invested emotion into it and aren't comfortable with results that either don't validate the point or counter it.

    I wasn't emotional about Rick or Jack until after an onslaught of just outright unreasoned emotional opinions on the issue. I get that sports is emotional, but at the end of the day my attitude is that you still want to remove that part and be reasonable, at least after giving it some time. I don't think keeping Rick or Jack would have worked 100%, both had some faults. But neither was the perfect scapegoat that many posters made them out to be.

    And so what happens next? New scapegoat is picked. That attitude would have gotten Reggie traded after a few bad games. Maybe the loss to Boston in the playoffs would have meant that Reggie just "couldn't lead them over the hump", just like JO now. So when I bring the "JOB is the greatest" or "see the GS trade is a big hit" posts back to reality it's really simply me putting this outrageous scapegoating attitude in some perspective.



    Now I do think that JOB has had some positive impacts and I also think Rick had some problems (discipline primarily). I just don't think that any fundamental issues were resolved at all. And things like Lebron and Gilbert blowing smoke up my rear don't change that.

    The team is "better" than last year when they beat Cleveland, despite only being 6-8 right now? Really? With a 20th rated offense (point per pos)?

    You repainted the used car and tried to sell it to me again, but I'm not buying. When this team is REALLY better you'll know it by the results, and I assure all of you I'll be leading the charge to champion that point of view. See my post Utah postings for that proof.

    In the meantime stop comforting yourself in the trashing of Rick, Jack, et al. It's too easy for something like this to counter that point:
    Quote Originally Posted by Schuhman at NBA.com
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    How important is Stephen Jackson to the Warriors? Without him, their defensive rating was an atrocious 119.1. With him, it's a solid 104.4. And the result is an impressive 4-1 road trip.
    The ongoing debate about the 2 most recent major moves rages on, just like people are still debating the non-existing JO to LA trade and if it was smart or not to pass on it.

    You don't say "it's in the past, nothing you can do now, let's not debate whether they made the right choice or not". At least I don't see anyone taking that stance. Especially not after the LAL game.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 11-27-2007 at 02:46 PM.

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    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    GIVE UP ON THE DAMN GS TRADE!

    second line.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."

    McKey fan, I agree with you somewhat, but I do recall Rick calling out Artest a few years ago, and Ron responding with a great game the next night out. Admittedly that is still rare for Rick, he's nice guy to a fault. We all note it when he comments on his time at Detroit and Indy, as well as how he was let go each time. Even the Zeke situation where he was left dangling was handled with class from his side of it.

    That's his thing, non-emotional positivism. Clearly that doesn't work with plenty of athletes. I think post-brawl it was a great attitude, but at other times the team needed fire and brimstone.


    But on the point of having favorites have you seen Tinsley's touches/shots lately? Has he not been handed the keys, while Shawne is called out specifically for his defense after a brilliant outing (the only guy to show up that night), followed by Shawne losing a ton of PT out of nowhere?

    You tell me who is the better defender and the better shooter, Tins or Shawne? It's the same with Harrison. JOB has cut his PT at times and no one said a word. But when Rick did it people said he wasn't giving him the chance.

    Those kinds of silly double standards make me nuts. The fact is that both Rick and JOB are quality coaches and both have had to deal with serious roster challenges in Indy. I'm not really sold that JOB has handled things all that much better. Trade in one pet (JO) for another (Tins). Show an apparent double standard between a vet and a young player.


    The only guy I feel like JOB might be reaching is Harrison, and even that is clouded with the contract issue, as in David might now realize that he could be totally out of the NBA and has decided to work on his attitude more. And he could just be getting old enough that he's moving past some of these issues.

    But I'm willing to give JOB some of that credit regardless, just due to his feistier attitude.

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