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Thread: Why not Anderson Varejao???

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    Default Why not Anderson Varejao???

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3128446

    Last season, Anderson Varejao played a key role as the Cleveland Cavaliers won the Eastern Conference title -- he was arguably the Cavs' best young player behind LeBron James.
    This season, Varejao is playing in a gym more than a thousand miles from Cleveland in Vitoria, Brazil, while the Cavs struggle to replace Varejao's defensive intensity in the middle.
    What's he doing? Working on his jump hook. Trying to stay in shape. And most importantly, waiting.

    Lisa Blumenfeld/Getty Images
    Varejao is a fan favorite for his all-out hustle and curly locks.



    He's waiting for the lucrative contract he thought he'd sign this offseason.
    And waiting for Cleveland general manager Danny Ferry to "show me that he values my contribution to the team," Varejao told ESPN.com by phone in a rare interview.
    "I just want to be treated fairly and I don't think Danny's done that."
    Varejao expected to be helping the Cavs defend their East crown by now.
    "I wanted to come back," he said. "I love the fans and I really love my teammates. But there are others there that have made it very difficult. It's gotten to the point that I don't want to play there anymore. I'm just hoping for a sign-and-trade at this point."
    Ferry isn't ready to give up on bring Varejao back.
    "We fully understand that negotiations can be emotional," Ferry told ESPN.com. "As for Anderson's potential to remain a Cavalier and put this behind us, we value his presence in this organization, on and off the court, and that has not changed."
    Varejao, who turned 25 in September, was a vital part of the Cavs' run to the NBA Finals. As the Cavs' sixth man, his basic stats were modest: 6.8 points and 6.7 rebounds in 23 minutes per game. But he led the league in drawing charges, and his energy and interior defense were invaluable to the team. His adjusted plus-minus numbers last season said he was the 22nd-best player in the league.
    The question for the Cavs is, how much do you pay for those less tangible contributions?
    That question has been at the heart of one of the most unusual free-agent contract squabbles in NBA history.
    (One of the handful of similar cases happened when Ferry himself refused to sign with the team that drafted him, the Los Angeles Clippers, decided instead to play in Europe and eventually forced the Clippers to trade him to, yes, Cleveland.)
    As of now, Varejao has been unable to get another team to sign him to an offer sheet. Because Varejao is a restricted free agent, the Cavs can match any offer he gets, and Ferry has threatened to do just that.
    This summer that scared off at least one team reluctant to tie its own hands by making an offer that would ultimately result in Varejao merely returning to Cleveland.
    The Memphis Grizzlies flirted with making Varejao a big offer in July, but when the Cavs threatened to match and leave Memphis empty-handed, the Grizzlies went after unrestricted free agent Darko Milicic instead.
    Several other teams told ESPN.com they would have offered Varejao their full midlevel exception (starting at $5.356 million per season), but Varejao has not been willing to sign for that amount because he believes (a) the Cavs would match, and (b) he's worth more.
    The Cavs' popular forward wants considerably more than the team is offering. He turned down the Cavs' one-year, $1.2 million tender offer. (To retain a restricted free agent, a team must make a tender offer.) He also refused Cleveland's opening offer of five years, $20 million, and then its latest offer of five years, $32 million, with a starting salary slightly below the midlevel exception.
    But Varejao said media reports that he's asking for a contract averaging $10-11 million a season "just aren't true. There are a lot of things being written that are wrong. I know they aren't talking to me or my agent."
    He said he and his agent, Dan Fegan, have been more than willing to work out a fair deal with the Cavs. Varejao said he offered to sign a one-year deal at a discount, or to sign a longer-term deal.
    Varejao further said he would be willing to take the dispute to an arbitrator, for a resolution similar to those found in Major League Baseball. That would minimize the role of Fegan, who is known as a very tough bargainer.
    "Much has been made about the negotiators in this process, but for the record I have been prepared since training camp to submit our differences to a third-party mediator so that both parties can be assured of more objectivity," Fegan says.
    The Cavs have rejected all of those counterproposals.
    Ferry says the Cavs' offer is fair.
    "We believe the Cavs' offers are very much in line with what is widely perceived throughout the industry as fair market value. We have also included bonuses that would serve as upside protection for Anderson," Ferry said.
    "We are working to make decisions that are best for short- and long-term interests of the organization, yet clearly stepping up and offering him long-term security at a very fair market value."
    Varejao said that if the two sides can't agree on a long-term deal, they should agree on a one-year deal that allows both sides to explore their options next year.

    [+] Enlarge

    Rocky Widner/NBAE via Getty Images
    Varejao said LeBron James is "a great teammate" who's providing him moral support from afar.



    From the Cavs' point of view, a one-year deal is counterproductive because it would make Varejao an unrestricted free agent next year, and the team's right to match any offer would disappear. In that case, Varejao could just walk away.
    But Fegan says that if Cleveland is willing to pay Varejao "fair market value," the Cavs would then be in the best position to sign him next year.
    "It defies logic for the Cavs to accuse Anderson of demanding too much money on a long-term deal while at the same time refusing to allow Anderson to sign a one-year deal for less money, especially when they retain his Bird rights next year." Fegan said. "It begs the question: If their offer is truly fair, what are they afraid of?"
    The result has been a standoff that shows no sign of ending.
    On each side, the frustration level has been rising the past few weeks, as Varejao is left in limbo in Brazil, and as the Cavs have struggled coming out of the gate in training camp and the regular season.
    In October, Ferry made a surprise visit to see Varejao at his parents' home in Brazil in an attempt to convince him to sign.
    The move backfired.
    Ferry showed up without telling Fegan, and working around an agent is a no-no in the NBA. While GMs are allowed to talk with players without an agent present, it is customary that all contract talk goes through an agent.
    "I was shocked," Varejao said. "He showed up and wanted me to sign a contract. I told him he's got to talk to my agent. He didn't even up his offer. I guess he thought if he just showed up, I would just sign whatever he gave me."
    Ferry walked away with no deal and with an angry free agent on his hands.
    He defends his decision to appeal directly to Varejao.
    "From the start of free agency, we told Anderson and his agent that the ability to communicate with him directly was going to be very important to the process," Ferry said. "The trip was done because our communication with Anderson was no longer available to us."
    Since that incident, there hasn't been much trust or movement on either side.
    While many around the NBA believe that Fegan is driving negotiations, Varejao says he is responsible for his own bargaining position.
    "This is me, nobody else," Varejao said. "He takes the offers to me and I decide. He's told me he'll get a deal done for less. I've told him no. It's me. [The Cavs] told me how important I was to the team. I just want to be treated fairly."
    Other GMs in the league, while acknowledging that Fegan is a tough negotiator, said that Ferry is equally tenacious.
    One serious risk, on Ferry's side, is that the team's most important player, James, might see this impasse as another sign of the Cavs' inability to improve the team.
    Varejao says that the Cavs' players support him, and that his conversations with James have been positive.
    "He just says, 'We love you and we're waiting,'" Varejao said. "He keeps telling me he wants me back but to get the best deal I can and to take care of my family. He's a great teammate. He always supports us on and off the court."
    That sentiment was confirmed by a source close to James, who said, "LeBron wants Andy back. He wants him to get a fair deal. I think his frustration isn't with Andy, it's with the fact that for the past two years, he's been waiting for more help and he hasn't gotten it. This is just a step in the wrong direction."
    Over the past few weeks, several NBA general managers have told ESPN.com that Fegan has been searching out potential sign-and-trade deals, in which Varejao would agree to terms with another team and then be traded to that team. In recent days, there have been indications that the Cavs are open to the possibility of a sign-and-trade.
    Two GMs told ESPN.com they believe Varejao would agree to a five-year, $45-million deal in a sign-and-trade, if such an offer were made.
    "If that's the price, or close to it, I think Danny [Ferry] will get some offers that make sense for the Cavs," one GM said. "I'm not sure he'll get equal value, but right now he has nothing and I don't see it changing."
    If Varejao leaves, it will be a bitter ending for both parties. But at this point, that might be the most workable option.
    "I'm willing to go and play in Europe if that's what it takes," Varejao said. "I know it's a risk and I'll be a restricted free agent next year, but at least I'd be happy. I don't think I'll be happy in Cleveland knowing that I was [almost] the lowest-paid player there for three years and am still paid much less than players on the team that I outperform. Life's too short to be unhappy."
    Jeff Foster isnt getting any younger, and everytime i watched this kid I loved his style. Hard nosed! Just like Jeff, who I have always enjoyed watching on the court.

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    when will he ever learn? underwave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    he's just and 'energizer'. not more nor less.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
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    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3128446



    Jeff Foster isnt getting any younger, and everytime i watched this kid I loved his style. Hard nosed! Just like Jeff, who I have always enjoyed watching on the court.

    I agree, he is a young Jeff, imho, you have to have these guys on your team to be good. David Lee, Jokim Noah (man I can't stand him) but you have to have those role players/difference makers on a team.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    I like players who the first couple of times you see them play, you think, wow someone is going to punch him in the face if he doesn't calm down.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Between the 2 I'd just stick with Foster, and he'll want more money in a sign and trade then Foster makes. Why wouldn't you suggest Murphy instead?

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Between the 2 I'd just stick with Foster, and he'll want more money in a sign and trade then Foster makes. Why wouldn't you suggest Murphy instead?

    i didnt suggest trading foster, compared him to foster. Just saying Foster isnt going to play much longer...most likely. I was talking about him retiring at some point. Hell yeah, sign and trade Murphy for him.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    I like him, but to answer your question he's demanding waaay too much money.

    Varejao is a good role player but his presence isn't going to make LeBron's crappy supporting cast any better, regardless of what his agent wants you to think.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
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    i didnt suggest trading foster, compared him to foster. Just saying Foster isnt going to play much longer...most likely. I was talking about him retiring at some point. Hell yeah, sign and trade Murphy for him.
    Varejao at some point might become more valuable than Murphy but right now, I'd rather have Murphy. We need a big guy that can stretch the defense more than another Jeff Foster-type player.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Varejao is asking for way too much money. He's a decent player, but it's hard to commit that much money to a guy who's a liability on the offensive end.

    Murphy is due $42 million over the next 4 years. Compared to $45 million over 5 for Varejao. They're not really interchanagable players. You couldn't play Varejao and Foster together. He's got very limited upside, and at this point I'd much rather see those minutes going to Ike and, the way he's been playing lately, Harrison.
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Yup...even though I think Sideshow Varejao's flop-along-Cassidy routine is the single worst thing I've ever witnessed in an NBA game and it really makes me want to stab people...the guy is pretty good. It's an effective style (unfortunately) and the guy is uber-solid and instant energy. Every team wants players like that to bring off the bench.

    All that said...$9 million per is a joke. Anything more than $35 million over five years (preferably $30 for four) is ridiculous.
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Yup...even though I think Sideshow Varejao's flop-along-Cassidy routine is the single worst thing I've ever witnessed in an NBA game and it really makes me want to stab people...the guy is pretty good. It's an effective style (unfortunately) and the guy is uber-solid and instant energy. Every team wants players like that to bring off the bench.

    All that said...$9 million per is a joke. Anything more than $35 million over five years (preferably $30 for four) is ridiculous.

    Well Said!!!

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    If it turns out that JONeal doesn't fit in JO'Bs offense and we decide to go with more of an offense that is centered around the Guard/SF positions...then I would consider:

    JONeal
    Graham

    for

    Varejao ( S&T for $32mil for 4 years )
    Snow

    This could help add some depth to our PG spot with Snow providing some solid defense ( who comes off the books after next season ) while adding Varajeo....a better version of Foster that can run, rebound, defend, provide alot of energy on the floor and ( hopefully ) provide more offense as a more reliable 3rd to 5th scoring option

    Before all of you jump all over me for bringing such blasphemy to the board....this ( of course ) assumes that JONeal's lingering injuries continue, it's clear that he doesn't fit in our offense and that it becomes obvious that our offense runs better through the wing positions then through JONeal.

    To me....it means that it HAS TO BE PAINFULLY CLEAR that JONeal no longer fits in our lineup and that we have to move him before I even consider such a trade. If the option presented itself.....I would much rather overpay a player like Varajeo ( who could be a better fit for the team...at least on paper ) then overpay a player like JONeal ( who may not be a better fit for the team ).
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-27-2007 at 01:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Yup...even though I think Sideshow Varejao's flop-along-Cassidy routine is the single worst thing I've ever witnessed in an NBA game and it really makes me want to stab people...the guy is pretty good.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Before all of you jump all over me for bringing such blasphemy to the board....
    Blasphemy? No. Just drugs.

    Seriously? Snow and Varejao? I'd rather just let JO's contract lapse.
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    If it turns out that JONeal doesn't fit in JO'Bs offense and we decide to go with more of an offense that is centered around the Guard/SF positions...then I would consider:

    JONeal
    Graham

    for

    Varejao ( S&T for $32mil for 4 years )
    Snow

    This could help add some depth to our PG spot with Snow providing some solid defense ( who comes off the books after next season ) while adding Varajeo....a better version of Foster that can run, rebound, defend, provide alot of energy on the floor and ( hopefully ) provide more offense as a more reliable 3rd to 5th scoring option

    Before all of you jump all over me for bringing such blasphemy to the board....this ( of course ) assumes that JONeal's lingering injuries continue, it's clear that he doesn't fit in our offense and that it becomes obvious that our offense runs better through the wing positions then through JONeal.

    To me....it means that it HAS TO BE PAINFULLY CLEAR that JONeal no longer fits in our lineup and that we have to move him before I even consider such a trade. If the option presented itself.....I would much rather overpay a player like Varajeo ( who could be a better fit for the team...at least on paper ) then overpay a player like JONeal ( who may not be a better fit for the team ).

    Not possible. Cleveland needs to add more salary to even it out.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    If it turns out that JONeal doesn't fit in JO'Bs offense and we decide to go with more of an offense that is centered around the Guard/SF positions...then I would consider:

    JONeal
    Graham

    for

    Varejao ( S&T for $32mil for 4 years )
    Snow

    This could help add some depth to our PG spot with Snow providing some solid defense ( who comes off the books after next season ) while adding Varajeo....a better version of Foster that can run, rebound, defend, provide alot of energy on the floor and ( hopefully ) provide more offense as a more reliable 3rd to 5th scoring option

    Before all of you jump all over me for bringing such blasphemy to the board....this ( of course ) assumes that JONeal's lingering injuries continue, it's clear that he doesn't fit in our offense and that it becomes obvious that our offense runs better through the wing positions then through JONeal.

    To me....it means that it HAS TO BE PAINFULLY CLEAR that JONeal no longer fits in our lineup and that we have to move him before I even consider such a trade. If the option presented itself.....I would much rather overpay a player like Varajeo ( who could be a better fit for the team...at least on paper ) then overpay a player like JONeal ( who may not be a better fit for the team ).
    If the situation were to come about like you said, and JO and the Pacers were not going to work in any way, I'd consider this if Cleveland were to throw in a couple of 1st round picks.
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Why would you give Andersen 32 Mil. for 4 years?
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Not possible. Cleveland needs to add more salary to even it out.
    Sorry...I guess I have to add filler from the Cavs side and take out Graham ( who we can waive ).

    JONeal at $19.71 mil

    Outgoing Salary for Indy - $19.71 mil

    Snow at $6.7 mil
    Varajeo at $8.0 mil ( S&T at $32 mil for 4 years )
    Devin Brown at $1.1 mil

    Outgoing Salary for Clevenland - $15.8 mil

    ( $15.8 mil x 1.25 ) + .1 = $19.85mil

    I couldn't run the trade through the Trade Machine cuz Varajeo isn't listed there....but I was thinking like this ( which is entirely possible that I am wrong...cuz I am guessing here )

    If we are over the roster limit...we can waive Graham or one of the fringe players at the end of the bench. I know that it's not Championship level material now...but I think that it's a good start towards the right direction assuming that we decide to move on from the JONeal experiment.
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    Why would you give Andersen 32 Mil. for 4 years?
    Cuz if he agrees to a S&T...it's going to have to be more then what he is getting from Cleveland....which was $32 mil over 5 years. Again...there is no way that we can avoid overpaying someone....and if JONeal doesn't fit our lineup...then I would much rather overpay Varajeo ( a younger player that...at least on paper....could fit in our lineup ) then overpay JONeal.

    Keep in mind.....this is assuming that it's decided by TPTB that JONeal doesn't fit in our lineup. If he does...then I am fine with ignoring this trade suggestion and continue with JONeal to see how it pans out for an entire season.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    If the situation were to come about like you said, and JO and the Pacers were not going to work in any way, I'd consider this if Cleveland were to throw in a couple of 1st round picks.
    Honestly....if we ever headed down that road.....I wouldn't push my luck with JONeal's trade value. I would want to get what I can and leave. IMHO.....draft picks are nice if we could get them...but it's not a sticking point for me. Getting out from JONeal's contract is more of a priority for me then not.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    So, while everyone keeps pointing out you need these kinds of guys on good teams, the guys that have been mentioned play for the Pacers, Bulls, Cavs (who might have made it out of the East, but might not have been a top ten team in the NBA), and Knicks. Not exactly the cream of the crop.

    Sure, the Spurs have Manu, but he's just a damn good basketball player, and the energy is part of it, but he's not as one dimensional as some of those players that have been mentioned. And I can't really see anyone who fills those roles on the Mavs, Spurs, Rockets, Celtics, Pistons, etc. Sure, you have role players, but each of them brings a lot more dimensions to the table than just hustle.


    Do you really want to overpay for a one-dimensional hustle guy? Is it worth it?

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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Honestly....if we ever headed down that road.....I wouldn't push my luck with JONeal's trade value. I would want to get what I can and leave. IMHO.....draft picks are nice if we could get them...but it's not a sticking point for me. Getting out from JONeal's contract is more of a priority for me then not.
    Why? JO's deal is up after one more season anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  23. #23

    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Honestly....if we ever headed down that road.....I wouldn't push my luck with JONeal's trade value. I would want to get what I can and leave. IMHO.....draft picks are nice if we could get them...but it's not a sticking point for me. Getting out from JONeal's contract is more of a priority for me then not.
    If we are gonna pull a lame trade like that might as well pry Boobie from their team. I think JO's value is at least worth that.
    Pacers!

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
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    Do you really want to overpay for a one-dimensional hustle guy? Is it worth it?
    I know that I am in the minority here.......but if JONeal truly doesn't fit in our lineup ( and I am willing to wait until he is healthy to see if he does ) and the opportunity presented himself...then yes I would ( assuming that he would take 8 mil per year for 4 seasons ).

    IMHO....I don't consider him a one-dimensional player. I look at him as the type of player that could fit our needs ( assuming that we do shift to a more Guard/SF oriented offense )....he's young....he can run the floor....he caon provide some decent defense...he can rebound...he can effiiciently score in the low-post without dominating the ball as a 3rd/4th scoring option and he's long ( that's what she said ) in the wingspan.

    I would love to get a Big Man that can do what JONeal did 3 seasons ago......but the truth is that it's unlikely that we can get someone like him given whatever JONeal's trade value is.

    Again...keep in mind that this is just my opinion assuming that a healthy JONeal doesn't work out.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Why not Anderson Varejao???

    Quote Originally Posted by LAPacer View Post
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    If we are gonna pull a lame trade like that might as well pry Boobie from their team. I think JO's value is at least worth that.
    If we can...sure...why not?

    The problem is that I just don't think that his trade value will be that high IF JONeal's legs continue to bother him ( which obvoiusly affects his offense and defense ) and it's obvious that he doesn't fit in JO'Bs offense.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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