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Thread: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

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    Default Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    2nd chance shots killed us throughout the entire game and a stupid mistake by Harrison seals the deal for the Lebrons.

    Good points...Tinsley with a 24/10/9 game...Marquis with 25 points on 9-12 shooting...other then Harrison holding onto the rim, he did have a solid offensive and defensive game ( despite fouling out ).

    Bad points....Dunleavy not even participating on the offensive end ( he took less FGA then Foster ) and Murphy pulled ( thankfully ) after 1-10 while pulling down 3 rebounds....Lebron ran the "pass the ball cross-court while he is double-teamed to the open 3pt shooter" play about a million times on us.

    This was the first game that I got to see with JONeal out. I think that if Shawne and Dunleavy took more of a greater role in the offense ( while actually taking shots ), we would have won the game.

    BTW... I was really surprised that Shawne ( not Granger ) took the last 3pt attempt to tie the game.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-25-2007 at 05:22 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    10 - 32 - 50 31andonly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    2 questions : why the hell did dunleavy take only 5 shots in 30 minutes and why was daniels on the bench the last 5 or 6 minuts?

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Cause Marquis was takin all of em in the 3rd
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by 31andonly View Post
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    2 questions : why the hell did dunleavy take only 5 shots in 30 minutes and why was daniels on the bench the last 5 or 6 minuts?
    I have no idea why Dunleavy didn't take that many shots...he seemed to defer alot to everyone else when he got the ball.

    As for Marquis....he was the sole reason why we were even in the game til the end.....he was still on the floor with at least a minute left. I think at the end....we needed a 3pt shot to tie the game....I think that if he was out...it would have been at the very last possesion.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by 31andonly View Post
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    2 questions : why the hell did dunleavy take only 5 shots in 30 minutes and why was daniels on the bench the last 5 or 6 minuts?
    That's how Mike rolls. But he has to be more assertive. He certainly has the green light to shoot it.

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    Member OnlyPacersLeft's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    I'll take this kind of loss...we fought hard all game. It was right there for the taking but missed ft's and turnovers killed us! 6-8 but we are getting closer to being a well gelled team. I like the direction we are heading!
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyPacersLeft View Post
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    I'll take this kind of loss...we fought hard all game. It was right there for the taking but missed ft's and turnovers killed us! 6-8 but we are getting closer to being a well gelled team. I like the direction we are heading!
    no we didn't which is why we lost. We decided to come to play towards the middle of the 3rd QT - before that we were just there...on the field...

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    you're not going to win many games when you give up 38pts in the 4th QT

    anyone else noticed that we used a 8-man rotation tonight - basically 7 man after the middle of the 3rd as Murph was nowhere to be seen when he was in the game...

    JT - not one of his best as far as decisions were concerned - 8 TOs did not help the cause...

    DunDun - we need both of our wings to be effective - DG can't get it done himself...when DunDun is shootin' it and being assertive - we're another team...today he didn't come to play...

    Quis - Man of the match...he made the game what it was - without him this was another blowout loss....
    Last edited by bellisimo; 11-25-2007 at 05:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    If Harrison plays like the way that he has played for the last couple of games...I will be happy with giving him some solid minutes. His size and low-post moves really causes problems for the opposing Big Man. Although he fouled out....he had 3 fouls by the half....he was put in after JO'B had the smarts TO FINALLY PULL Murphy ( who thankfully was out for the rest of the game ) and didn't really do anything stupid until he hang on the rim during that last minute sequence...which resulted in the basket being recalled and giving the Cavs back the ball. At this point...I would even venture to say that Harrison and Ike are better low-post "in the paint" scorers then JONeal is.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    you're not going to win many games when you give up 38pts in the 4th QT
    We lost the game cuz of the Cavs killed us on 2nd chance buckets where Gooden, Lebron and Z were killing us on the boards. On top of that, they had many wide open 3pt shots. The Cavs shot 54% shooting on 24 3pt attempts. That's 39 points right there.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Nice job by my boyz overall. We didn't take care of the ball down the stretch and missed too many FTs when it mattered most.

    I think David Harrison thought he was fouled when he hung unto the rim. Otherwise, yeah, that was a momentum changer. Had he just let go and Foster's putback held up, the Cavs would have been up by 1 pt and I think my boyz would have played alittle differently down the stretch. But I will say this: Had we won, I would have given the game ball to Harrison. It was his offense and defense that got us back into the game.

    Something else of importance that needs mentioning: As much as folks keep talking about trading JO, we missed having a dominate inside presence tonight. I think had a "healthy" (implied for both players) Ike or JO been available, we could have won this one because it's clear the Cavs only have Ilgauskas to hold down the middle. Get him in foul trouble or force him to really defend a mobile post player and he's toast!

    Good game, boyz. Now, let's get at least one of our bigs back and take a few games on this west coast road trip.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 11-25-2007 at 06:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    I don't care what JT's statline is. Even if he hits 15 of them, 20 shots
    is TOO many for him. And the 8 TO's speak for themselves....

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Only caught the last two minutes.

    I didn't enjoy it.

    Sweet play, David. And way to leave Damon Jones with a wide-open three.
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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    we will continue to have headaches till we learn how to defend dribble penetration - tonight was another example on how to beat the Pacers...just collapse the D and pass it out to the wide open three point shooter...over and over and over

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    I don't care what JT's statline is. Even if he hits 15 of them, 20 shots
    is TOO many for him. And the 8 TO's speak for themselves....
    I disagree. As long as the PG is taking AND MAKING his shots close-in to the basket, i.e., on dribble drives or in Tinsley's case post-up plays which he's good at, I can accept him taking 20 FGAs. You need a to have someone on your team with the ability to get to the basket nearly at will. So far, only Tinsley and Quis have shown the ability to do that consistently. Granger is coming along in that capacity, but Tinsley - I'll take him playing pretty much the way he played tonight just about any day of the week as long as he's NOT taking 3pt shots!

    The problem I have w/Tinsleys jacking up 3's is he's not very good at it. He's got to have the ugliest shot from downtown any professional basketball player could have.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 11-25-2007 at 06:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    we will continue to have headaches till we learn how to defend dribble penetration - tonight was another example on how to beat the Pacers...just collapse the D and pass it out to the wide open three point shooter...over and over and over
    That's the result of our Guards continuing to double-team instead of rotating defensively and the off-defender staying w/the open man. As long as they continue to take the risk on the double-team on high screens or PnR's and leave the wings open, we'll get burned!

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Just got back from the game. Really the Pacers played pretty well, I can't complain about how the Pacers played overall.

    Too many late turnovers, a few too many missed free throws late and just way too many wide open threes - of coruse that is mostly because LeBron is soooo tough to stop - but also the pacers did not rotate quickly enough

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    I was pretty pleased with how we played. Tins will probably be mostly remembered for the late turnovers, but his near-triple-double kept us in the game.

    I think Shawne thought there was far less time left than there actually was. Had he taken his regular shot and not done a crazy fade-away, he probably would have nailed it. It was on-line, just a little short.

    Disappointing, but not devastating. I was about ready to throw in the towel after that abysmal showing against the Lakers.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    I agree with those who've mentioned Dunleavy. He's got to look at the basket more. We need more consistency from him.

    I can't say precisely why, but it seems evident to me we play better minus JO-especially on offense. We actually run like we claim is our approach.

    Tins had a handful of "cringe" plays, but without him we're not even in that game. Wasn't a great game by him but certainly the positives outweighed the negatives.

    How did it take JOB so long to finally get Murphy off the court???? He and Dun are really living up to their inconsistent labels way too much. If TM doesn't hit some outside shots, he's frankly useless on the court.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Nice job by my boyz overall. We didn't take care of the ball down the stretch and missed too many FTs when it mattered most.

    I think David Harrison thought he was fouled when he hung unto the rim. Otherwise, yeah, that was a momentum changer. Had he just let go and Foster's putback held up, the Cavs would have been up by 1 pt and I think my boyz would have played alittle differently down the stretch. But I will say this: Had we won, I would have given the game ball to Harrison. It was his offense and defense that got us back into the game.

    Something else of importance that needs mentioning: As much as folks keep talking about trading JO, we missed having a dominate inside presence tonight. I think had a "healthy" (implied for both players) Ike or JO been available, we could have won this one because it's clear the Cavs only have Ilgauskas to hold down the middle. Get him in foul trouble or force him to really defend a mobile post player and he's toast!

    Good game, boyz. Now, let's get at least one of our bigs back and take a few games on this west coast road trip.
    Watching the game....Big Z wasn't as big of a factor as Gooden was. His effort ( or was it our lack of effort on the defensive rebounding end? ) the reason why the Cavs got so many 2nd chances. He was killing us not only on the boards in the 2nd and 3rd QTRs but on the offensive end as well.

    Also.....we did have an inside presense with Harrison in the low-post. Whenever he got the ball in the paint....Big Z and Gooden couldn't do too much other then draw the foul. I really think that Harrison could be a solid 3rd/4th/5th Big Man off the bench ( depending on matchups ) that could provide some solid production. I think that if he makes it a habit of planting his feet on the ground and putting his hands up that he would provide as much defense in the low-post ( cuz of his huge frame ) then if he tried to block a shot ( which usually leads to foul trouble ). He seemed to do that with Big Z which I think affected his overall offensive game. There maybe games where he's going to get into foul trouble against All-star level talent that gets the "All-Star" treatment when it comes to drawing fouls ( which I think is unavoidable ), but if he plays like he does lately, he will be able to solidly contribute to the team off the bench.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    I don't care what JT's statline is. Even if he hits 15 of them, 20 shots
    is TOO many for him. And the 8 TO's speak for themselves....
    Honestly, I don't know fault Tinsley for taking that many shots. Dunleavy ( our usual 2nd/3rd scoring option ) just didn't step up on the offensive end...which perplexes me. Tinsley passed the ball to him but Dunleavy decided to pass up the shot.

    However, I was hoping that Shawne would be involved more in the offense. I really think that he could have made a difference on the offensive end.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    I agree with those who've mentioned Dunleavy. He's got to look at the basket more. We need more consistency from him.

    I can't say precisely why, but it seems evident to me we play better minus JO-especially on offense. We actually run like we claim is our approach.

    Tins had a handful of "cringe" plays, but without him we're not even in that game. Wasn't a great game by him but certainly the positives outweighed the negatives.

    How did it take JOB so long to finally get Murphy off the court???? He and Dun are really living up to their inconsistent labels way too much. If TM doesn't hit some outside shots, he's frankly useless on the court.
    I mentioned it several times in the game thread....but Murphy wasn't anywhere near the basket. He was simply camping out at the 3pt line STANDING there doing nothing. He's our PF....he should be somewhere closer to the paint to help rebound. I don't watch games that often....but does Murphy stand around and just camp on the 3pt line?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    This was not a bad loss. I left frustrated, but not upset. I thought we played decently, but our offense could have been better.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    Huge mental lapses lost the game for us tonight. We got a 5 point lead and Tinsley completely lost Damon Jones on his 3 pointer. Jamaal will get bet, but he rarely loses his man like that. We had several mental lapses in the second quarter too.


    I have to say I'm impressed that we fought back. We erased a 14 point lead pretty quickly, and almost won a game in which we played poorly against a team that played well (for them, they played well...Cleveland has a terrible offense). We need someone to step up at the end of games. I saw Dunleavy pass up an open three that he could've stepped into, Granger dribble the ball off his leg, and Foster crank up a deep jumper (probably because his teammates got timid at the end). No wonder Jamaal chucks up shots at the end.

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    Default Re: Post Game thread - Cleveland Lebrons hold on to beat the Pacers

    This was a tough loss to take. It seems like you get a feeling in the 2nd quarter with this team as to whether or not they're going to win. Even when they had a 7 point lead in the 4th, I couldn't shake the losing feeling.

    Observations:

    - I agree with Seth about the offense, it doesn't look that good. The transition buckets and early shot clock stuff are about all that's working for us.

    - Don't let Tinsley's stat line fool you. This was the worst he's played in the last 4 games. No matter what's going on in the game, 44 shots in a two game span is too many for a PG, especially one named Jamaal Tinsley. If you put Steve Nash on the Pacers, he wouldn't take 44 shots in two games, and he's at least 10 times the shooter that Tinsley is. Jamaal had some good plays, but he seems to be reverting to his playground slop more and more. He's also the absolute worst rotator we have on defense. Also, when he doesn't rotate and his man is wide open at the 3 point line, he doesn't even sprint out to challenge the shot. This happened multiple times on Sunday.

    - We lost the game because we gave up way too many offensive rebounds. I wonder if part of this isn't because we're trying to get out ahead in transition and forgetting that getting the rebound is the most important part of running after a missed shot.

    - Harrison played really well, but then ruined all the good will I had for him by idiotically hanging onto the rim and negating a go-ahead basket.

    - I like Dunleavy, but he's got to shoot more or he's not worth having on the floor.

    - O'Brien has clearly shown that he will go with the hot hand late in games. I have no problem with the minutes he gave Murphy. He had a bad first half. O'Brien gave him a few minutes to see if he could get it going in the second. He couldn't, so he didn't play the rest of the game.

    - Watching the game I had to wonder a few times if guys not named LeBron James would have gotten some of the calls he got. I don't think so. He's a great player, but some of the shots he takes rival Tinsley's for sheer idiocy. The major difference is that his go in.

    - We seemed to be doing a fair bit of running the offense through Danny when Tins wasn't on the floor. He was being used as a point forward and Marquis was largely playing off the ball. I'd never considered it a possibility that Danny could be used this way, but it seemed to work well. He made some great passes and was more aggressive in this role. We need to find some way to convince him that he needs to be the one taking 20+ shots a game, not Jamaal or Jermaine.

    All in all, it wasn't a bad week. I figured we'd win 1 out of 4 and we won 2, so I can't really complain. I think we can stop the Eric Gordon talk now. This team will improve as the season goes on, and we'll be in the playoff hunt for sure at the end of the season.
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