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Thread: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...1240470&theme=
    November 24, 2007

    Pacers notebook
    O'Neal might play versus Cavs
    By Mike Wells
    mike.wells@indystar.com






    Indiana Pacers coach Jim O'Brien said he anticipates starting forward Jermaine O'Neal will be back in the lineup for Sunday's game against the Cleveland Cavaliers at Conseco Fieldhouse.


    But a couple of things have to happen before O'Neal, who missed his second straight game with swelling in his left knee, returns. He has to be medically cleared and be ready to play at least at a 90 percent level. The Pacers will practice today.


    "He has to be ready to practice," O'Brien said. "It's difficult to just play games and not practice. Jermaine knows how important he is to our team on the practice floor and also in games. He also knows why having this swelling in this leg makes it hard to practice; you almost can't. If you're not practicing, you're not really playing to your capabilities."


    O'Neal, who has missed three games this season, said he didn't have an MRI on Friday because the swelling in his knee has subsided. He got ice therapy treatment during Friday's game against the Dallas Mavericks.


    Seeing an improvement


    Center David Harrison, who has been foul prone during his career, has given the Pacers a key contribution off the bench over the past week.
    He played 19 minutes in O'Neal's absence against New Orleans, totaling 12 points, four rebounds and a block.


    O'Brien wants Harrison to string together a strong month.


    "I have a lot of confidence (in him)," O'Brien said. "I think what he has done the last couple of games, he's stayed relatively foul free. He's starting to show the referees his hands on defense. That's good that he's letting referees know he's not going to be grabbing people . . . It's very important for this franchise that what we have seen over the last week we continue to see from David, because he's an extremely talented, athletic basketball player."


    Harrison played almost 11 minutes Friday night, grabbing three rebounds and committing four fouls.


    Harrison was benched the entire second half Nov. 10 against Denver after picking up a technical foul. O'Brien said Harrison has "no choice" but to be on his best behavior with the officials because the Pacers don't plan on "tolerating him being distracted" with the officials.


    Walking around


    Forward Ike Diogu, out since Nov. 6 with a torn left calf muscle, has started walking without his boot. He said he's doing some stretching and calf raises, but he still is not able to run.


    "They don't know when that's going to happen yet," Diogu said. "They're still evaluating me."


    Diogu was averaging nearly 14 points and four rebounds before he was injured.

  2. #2
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    ...and in other News, the Pacers lose to the Cavs.

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    Exclamation Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    NoOoOoOOoOo!!! He will snap us out of our winning streak

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Well, I see my thoughts have already been posted, so I guess you can ignore this post.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    Member Erik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    well, it's not televised, so if you don't go you will probably only miss a loss i hate to sound that way, really. but we just seem to be a better team without him. at least give him a longer rest

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    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    All I can hear is the sound of screeching brakes in my head....

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    I'm happy O'Brien is at least saying he has to be 90 percent and be able to practice. I like our coach.. a lot. I still wish we could move O'Neal. Good to see Ike making some progress too.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    With a recurring problem, and the swelling going down, wouldn't that be the PERFECT time for an MRI???

    -Bball
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    I thought the plan was to sit JO until he was truly ready? Just because his knee stopped swelling yesterday and he might be 90%.... that doesn't sound anywhere near truly ready. Sounds like another set back waiting to happen.

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I thought the plan was to sit JO until he was truly ready? Just because his knee stopped swelling yesterday and he might be 90%.... that doesn't sound anywhere near truly ready. Sounds like another set back waiting to happen.
    I'm bummed.

    I thought I was going to see your pic of Darth Vader, exclaiming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

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    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    With a recurring problem, and the swelling going down, wouldn't that be the PERFECT time for an MRI???

    -Bball
    That would make way to much sense.

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I thought the plan was to sit JO until he was truly ready? Just because his knee stopped swelling yesterday and he might be 90%.... that doesn't sound anywhere near truly ready. Sounds like another set back waiting to happen.
    I think that was just a suggested plan by some of us fans on this board. But yeah it's just a setback waiting to happen. Knees don't swell because they feel like it. He should have gotten the MRI.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Mal,

    You, I agree with. All the others who think otherwise...

    I also think playing him on Sunday (11/25) might not be a good idea. I'd much rather wait until he's 100% and have some sort of assurance that whatever caused the swelling won't re-occur any time soon. Maybe it was just the result of two limbs colliding, but if there's a chance that it was something else that caused the problem, I think an MRI would show it or at the very least rule out any potential damage.

    EDIT: Unlike the majority here, I would much rather see what a 100% health JO can do w/practise time under his belt than I would with him at only 90% or below. Perhaps the lack of practise time has affected his ability to truly fully gel with the offensive as much as the knee injury. For these reasons, I'd rather see him sit out and have the MRI to atleast rule out any furthe problems than to play him and have him go out again for yet another extended period and not know what caused the swelling in the first place.

    The injury issue aside, I for one am tired of reading about all this "trade JO" BS. The guy still has value to the team even if most don't see it. So, to JO and JOB I say, just get the darn MRI and if necessary sit out Sunday's game and don't come back until you're 100%. Then let's see what a healthy JO can do out there.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 11-24-2007 at 01:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    It's kind of interesting that the feelings of anxiety and dread that used to accompany the news that JO was not able to play are now being kindled by the notion that he actually might play.
    Bill

  15. #15

    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    I hope Oneal doesnt play agasint the Cavs..
    the looked better without him.

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Yes I think not having the MRI when you could rule out any potential problems is stupid and foolish.

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    As for all of the hot comments about "we're better without him", that's only partially true. JO is a better passer than Murphy, Jeff, Foster, Ike, or David. That alone makes him an interesting addition to the offense.

    Past that, I'm with the "screw JO" group offensively. The dude is a jump shot machine and not a very good one. Even his true low post moves are all about fading away or avoiding collisions and I just don't care for it or think it's that wonderful. It's like I've said to Gnome and others I see at the games: If JO was just a cog in the machine, I wouldn't have a beef with him. I have a beef with him being the "franchise" "star" player who gets paid $20mm to do what he does. That label and that price tag are what "offends" me.

    Still, the other thing to consider is JO blocks shots and takes charges on defense, and that's a good thing. However, I'd argue that it looks like others are stepping up to take charges whether JO is there or not (Dunleavy and Granger come to mind, but the way we play help D potentially anyone near the paint could do it). Personally I don't think JO scares people away from the basket (meaning driving guards/wings), so the shot blocking threat is merely "nice" to me. Beating your man to a spot is much more important than blocking 2 shots a game.

    My point is that while JO is a good defender (I still don't see him as a better-than-good 1-on-1 defender), I don't think he's a vital piece to Harter's defense.

    So that leads me back to the point I was originally trying to make, and by now I've partially talked myself out of it but here it goes: Jermaine O'Neal is more significant to this team than a lot of you want to admit..... but not too much.

    Everyone keeps picking a side with either he's important or very important, or he's barely or not important at all. I think it's pretty much in the middle of those two realms of opinion. He's "sort of" important.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    To some of the posters - JO will never be 100%. He's already too broken down for that to ever happen.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    JO is a better passer than Murphy, Jeff, Foster, Ike, or David.
    I've been really impressed with the passing I've seen from JO this year. But I still think Jeff is a better distributor overall. I think it's the most under-rated part of Jeff's game. Not only can he make the passes from the low post to guys who are cutting to the rim, but he's also very efficient at making passes from the high post (sometimes just squeaking by 3 or 4 players in the lane).

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    And on a cost-per-good-pass basis, Jeff certainly has a distinct
    advantage...

  21. #21
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    JO is the best player they have when he is healthy. He's already made plenty of driving to the lane post moves to say he's avoiding contact. His jump shot is part of his game and always was, even in his best seasons.

    He can be healthy again because he's not "broken down". Or do we need to dig up posts on Tinsley from a few years ago proclaiming his career over due to perpetual injuries?


    What I will agree with is that if the team is getting by without him, much like the Colts without Marvin Harrison, then what's the freaking rush. Maybe without him they can be this .500 or slightly better team. Get him properly ready to go so that he won't agitate whatever issue he has the first time he smacks knees with someone. That way you bump from sneaking into the playoffs to doing some real damage perhaps.


    And if they aren't good enough to hang in there without him then this debate about his lack of value is moot.

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBaby33 View Post
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    I'm bummed.

    I thought I was going to see your pic of Darth Vader, exclaiming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
    Since Mal won't do it....I will

    For those that have had a similiar injury to what JONeal has....even if your swelling appears to go down.....are you able to get your spring back into your knees?

    I do miss JONeal's interior defense...and we will need it to defend against the Big Z.....but unless he is 100% and can jump...I don't see the need to rush him back.....especially against the Cavs at home.

    Maybe that's why JO'B wants him back....to defend against Illgaukas and cuz we are playing a division rival.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    JO is the best player they have when he is healthy. He's already made plenty of driving to the lane post moves to say he's avoiding contact. His jump shot is part of his game and always was, even in his best seasons.
    i think avoiding contact has a little bit to do with it, but i think right now it has more to do with having the lift of jabba the hut and the worry of allowing earl-boykins-sized players to block his shot.

    What I will agree with is that if the team is getting by without him, much like the Colts without Marvin Harrison, then what's the freaking rush. Maybe without him they can be this .500 or slightly better team.
    ditto... other than assists, i can't imagine people think (especially the coaching staff) JO has looked tremendously good out there. let him heal.
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    To some of the posters - JO will never be 100%. He's already too broken down for that to ever happen.
    Yes, it's a shame. IMO, JO has given 100% effort and deserves respect, but it's time to stick a fork in him.

    He actually hasn't been 100% since that night in Denver when he injured his shoulder several years ago. That injury happened several years before he would have reached his peak. With his quickness, size, length and talent he should have regularly been going up and dunking in traffic...a veritable 3pt play machine. We never saw much of that because his body just couldn't take it. Instead, we saw a low pct. fadeaway shot that continues to be inaccurate.

    Now, this might not show much respect for him, but it's the best way I can put it. I think we need to put a thick layer of lipstick on this pig and wheel him onto the trading floor before the Feb. deadline. An auction would be the best format to ensure he is moved. That way, instead of simply cutting salary when he retires or walks we get a draft pick and perhaps a good young player in return. Just get the best deal you can. Teams in February will be looking for that extra to get them over the top...either in the playoffs or into contention.

    Don't miss this train Pacers. Push that button!!!

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    Default Re: Star> O'Neal might play versus Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    JO is the best player they have when he is healthy. He's already made plenty of driving to the lane post moves to say he's avoiding contact. His jump shot is part of his game and always was, even in his best seasons.

    He can be healthy again because he's not "broken down". Or do we need to dig up posts on Tinsley from a few years ago proclaiming his career over due to perpetual injuries?


    What I will agree with is that if the team is getting by without him, much like the Colts without Marvin Harrison, then what's the freaking rush. Maybe without him they can be this .500 or slightly better team. Get him properly ready to go so that he won't agitate whatever issue he has the first time he smacks knees with someone. That way you bump from sneaking into the playoffs to doing some real damage perhaps.

    And if they aren't good enough to hang in there without him then this debate about his lack of value is moot.
    Aside from most of our sarcastic remarks about JONeal returning....it just seems that his athleticsm is so tied to his offensive and defensive game that when he is not 100% ( like he has been ever since the offseason ) it just affects his game too much to ignore.

    I think that most of us just think that his return to the court seems rushed then prudent. Unless JONeal plays limited minutes, is only defending and making only 10 FGA a game.....then I would much rather wait for him to be 100% so that we can properly evaluate whether he truly does fit onto this team then not.

    It may sound strange....but I would much rather have a 100% Murphy that can effectively hit his shots then a 75% JONeal where he can only hit 40% of his shots and doesn't have the lateral movement to properly defend the player he's supposed to defend.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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