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Thread: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

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    Default Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    BRYANT HOT FOR SUNS, SPURS

    May 30, 2004 -- FOR those dream weavers who believe a fourth championship will entice Kobe Bryant to remain a Laker for at least the life of new seven-year contract, prepare to be disappointed.
    "I know he wants out of L.A. in the worst way," swears one of the few people who would know something so serious.

    By L.A., my informant means the Lakers, not the city; Kobe's thought process hasn't ruled out my Paper Clips.

    "Yeah, but I don't think that's going to happen," the source added, playing a little dodge ball. "Of all the teams who own ample salary cap room, the Clippers are a long shot."

    Meanwhile, Denver and Utah "have no shot," stressed the source.

    "If he goes [oh, great, now it's an if] it wouldn't surprise me if Kobe chooses between the Suns and the Spurs."

    *

    Decision makers and swayers representin' both the Clips and Hawks disclose and confirm there's meaningful conversation regarding a swap of elite first round choices.

    To nobody's shock or awe, Atlanta's primary objective is to place itself in position to draft local schoolboy sensation Dwight Howard. In order to accomplish that goal it must, at the minimum, advance to the second overall pick owned by L.A., since it appears Emeka Okafor will be selected first by the Magic.

    Although the Clips might be able to find room in their lineup for a 6-10 power tool, their pressing need is for a point guard. The idea, which may soon be realized, is to swap No. 2 for Nos. 6 & 17 and harvest either Wisconsin's 6-3 Devin Harris or 6-7 teenager Shaun Livingston with the highest pick.

    *

    Byron Scott must feel like a prisoner of war the way Stephen A. Smith interrogated him Friday evening. His hardest question was his first: "Why the New Orleans Hornets?" Because it was the only team that offered Scott a head-coaching job or was going to offer him one, you fool.

    Stephen A(nal) never has intersected with integrity. Greg Anthony, meanwhile, thoroughly impugned his impartiality regarding Scott with the following decree: "His hiring gives the franchise credibility and stability."

    If true, how does the ESPN analyst explain the two-year insurgence by Jason & The Argonauts, who flat out quit on their coach earlier this season?

    The least Anthony should've done was mention it and haul up the players on charges, if he believes them deserving of discredit. The least Anthony should've done was refer to that contaminated matter as well as Scott's portrayal by an assortment of anonymous members of New Jersey's organization as an unprepared sloth. Again, he couldn't brand it nonsense, if that's what he believes.

    Instead Anthony shamelessly ignored Scott's heavy baggage and tainted reputation.

    Naturally, no one in the studio called him out on it.

    In the humble estimation of Stephen A(nal) and Anthony, Scott was the best candidate for the Hive Master out there.

    Either that's an indictment on the coaching profession, a reflection of the person (owner George Shinn; picking the coach before the GM is butt backwards) responsible for the appointment, or we've heard quite enough from the Barrens of Basketball.

    Scott, it says here, will be run out of New Orleans within two seasons. If the elderly and chronically injured Hornets could barely squeak into the Eastern Conference playoffs, how fast do you think it'll take Western competition to expose and exploit his flaws?

    The way ESPN and TNT are conducting business these days, you can no longer be the worst commentator on the air; you can only be among the worst. Presenting Michele Tafoya. During Friday's telecast ESPN's sideline reporter ("If it's news, it's news to me") breathlessly offered listeners this update: "Hey, guys, Ben Wallace's six brothers are real proud of him now ... Back to you, guys."

    How Clockwork has been able to play all these years while shaming his family is fodder for a future news flash.

    *

    If Jamaal Tinsley's ailing left hamstring deactivates him for Game 5 and beyond, look for the Pistons' backcourt, especially its second unit, to ratchet up the defensive pressure significantly on dribbling-impaired Anthony Johnson. Perhaps the Pacers might be able to get away with employing rusty Kenny Anderson against Lindsey Hunter and Mike James, but, as you saw in Game 4, Chauncey Billups wasted no time in using and abusing him.

    The Hawks received permission from the Pacers to interview associate coach Mike Brown for their head job when Indy's season ends ... Twenty replays later and ESPN's analysts have yet to point out why Jermaine O'Neal, fighting for a rebound, landed so awkwardly on his left knee; Rip Hamilton planted his backside into J.O.'s back, thus he was bent rearward when his feet touched the floor ... Austin Croshere (14 points on 5-8 FG in his first start in two seasons) is the only player in NBA history who turns a whiter shade of pink when overly exerting himself.

    Does anyone jump on passes 20 feet from the hoop more than Reggie Miller? Have you ever seen Al Harrington take more than two dribbles on a fast break after a rebound and not turn it over or commit a charge? When will the Pacers learn to stop the dribbler? That's the first thing you're taught in organized ball. Are we sure some of these guys didn't come into the pros straight out of grammar school?


    *

    I see where Michael Jackson's trial has been set for Sept. 13. Tough timing, since it effectively eliminates anyone from taking a chance on him in the free-agent market.

    According to a source in the know, Kobe Bryant wants to leave the Lakers and would strongly consider both the Phoenix Suns and San Antonio Spurs.

    http://www.nypost.com/sports/22004.htm

  2. #2
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    So the Spurs have a shot at either Kobe or T-Mac...hmmm - they won't be stacked!?!

  3. #3
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    I hope Mike doesn't take the Atlanta job.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    So the Spurs have a shot at either Kobe or T-Mac...hmmm - they won't be stacked!?!
    Well, at least we know the Spurs can't get both of them. Someone in the East had better make a serious bid for TMac (read: Indy or Detroit). If both players were to land in the West next season, the East will be left behind for several more years.

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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    I'd prefer that Brown stay with the Pacers, but if he does take a head coaching job, I'd kind of like it to be with the Hawks, albeit for largely selfish reasons. It would give me a good reason to to follow and root for the Hawks more now that I'm down here in Atlanta. It's been tough to have even a passing interest in them.

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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    That would be a great hire for the Hawks.

    But Mike Brown needs to be careful, the NBA is littered with young coaches who took a bad first head coaching job and never got another chance.

    I realize Mike Brown is not going to get the Lakers job or Kings job, but he nees to think long term and if he takes the hawks job and fails through no fault of his own, he may not ever get another chance.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    So the Spurs have a shot at either Kobe or T-Mac...hmmm - they won't be stacked!?!
    On a similar not, I dont now if this was poster here, but I saw at OS (operationsports) that the Mavs have contacted Magic about No. 1 pick.

    also


    McGrady was asked just what it would take for him to stay in Orlando.

    "That would take, like, a big man who gets 15 [points] and 10 [rebounds] every night and blocks shots . . . to have a defensive stopper on the wing, a solid point guard and a guy who can knock down open jump shots to prevent the double-teams," he said.
    Hmm...we have the big man (JO), the defensive stopper on the wing (Ronnie), and the guy who can knock down open shots (Reggie).

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    I was watching ESPN last night and david Aldridge was on and they were talking about McGrady, and without being prompted or asked DA spoke up and say don't discount the Pacers chances of getting McGrady

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    Twenty replays later and ESPN's analysts have yet to point out why Jermaine O'Neal, fighting for a rebound, landed so awkwardly on his left knee; Rip Hamilton planted his backside into J.O.'s back, thus he was bent rearward when his feet touched the floor ...
    Is this true? Here I've been blaming Big Ben...

    Definately an undercut, though. Kind of disgusting that ESPN said nothing about it.
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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    I was watching ESPN last night and david Aldridge was on and they were talking about McGrady, and without being prompted or asked DA spoke up and say don't discount the Pacers chances of getting McGrady
    I also saw that. It will be interesting to see.
    God that would be awesome to have him with JO and RonRon.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    I was watching ESPN last night and david Aldridge was on and they were talking about McGrady, and without being prompted or asked DA spoke up and say don't discount the Pacers chances of getting McGrady
    I also saw that. It will be interesting to see.
    God that would be awesome to have him with JO and RonRon.
    It would, but Im still skeptical as to who we would have to give up
    Either it's people we can live with parting with, or the deal never happens. I'm fine either way at this point.

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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    When will the Pacers learn to stop the dribbler? That's the first thing you're taught in organized ball. Are we sure some of these guys didn't come into the pros straight out of grammar school?

    http://www.nypost.com/sports/22004.htm
    I about went horse from yelling "STOP THE BALL!" the other night. ed:
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  13. #13

    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    IMO, I think if it does happen, it will involve either Harrington, Tinsley, Bender, Croshere/Pollard (experience) and a draft pick. I cant complain either way, its just that I am kind of big on team chemistry, and when you have had a team together for 3 years, and they just get out of the first round..............
    This is pure homerific thinking. Harrington, Tinsley, Bender or Croshere ain't gonna cut it. You have to consider what teams like Detroit, Houston and SA can offer for McGrady. Detroit has no true star/franchise player so they might be willing to part with some substantial talent to get him—either Prince, Billups, Hamilton, Okur, Darko and yes, even Ben. That's far more attractive to me than Harrington, Tinsley, Bender or Croshere. Houston has Francis. SA has Parker, Ginobili, etc.

    We'd have to consider at the very least parting with Ron. You'd also have to look at it as a preventative move. We can't allow Detroit to get McGrady. Nor do we want a West coast team to get him. Losing Ron would be tough, but a lineup consisting of JO, Al and McGrady would be pretty deadly. We'd have one of the best inside/outside combos in the league.

  14. #14
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    IMO, I think if it does happen, it will involve either Harrington, Tinsley, Bender, Croshere/Pollard (experience) and a draft pick. I cant complain either way, its just that I am kind of big on team chemistry, and when you have had a team together for 3 years, and they just get out of the first round..............
    This is pure homerific thinking. Harrington, Tinsley, Bender or Croshere ain't gonna cut it. You have to consider what teams like Detroit, Houston and SA can offer for McGrady. Detroit has no true star/franchise player so they might be willing to part with some substantial talent to get him—either Prince, Billups, Hamilton, Okur, Darko and yes, even Ben. That's far more attractive to me than Harrington, Tinsley, Bender or Croshere. Houston has Francis. SA has Parker, Ginobili, etc.

    We'd have to consider at the very least parting with Ron. You'd also have to look at it as a preventative move. We can't allow Detroit to get McGrady. Nor do we want a West coast team to get him. Losing Ron would be tough, but a lineup consisting of JO, Al and McGrady would be pretty deadly. We'd have one of the best inside/outside combos in the league.
    I don't think I'd give up Ron for T-Mac.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    Ron's defense and intensity is too valuable to give up. Not to mention he gives us 18ppg to top that off.

  16. #16
    Tim
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    IMO, I think if it does happen, it will involve either Harrington, Tinsley, Bender, Croshere/Pollard (experience) and a draft pick. I cant complain either way, its just that I am kind of big on team chemistry, and when you have had a team together for 3 years, and they just get out of the first round..............
    This is pure homerific thinking. Harrington, Tinsley, Bender or Croshere ain't gonna cut it. You have to consider what teams like Detroit, Houston and SA can offer for McGrady. Detroit has no true star/franchise player so they might be willing to part with some substantial talent to get him—either Prince, Billups, Hamilton, Okur, Darko and yes, even Ben. That's far more attractive to me than Harrington, Tinsley, Bender or Croshere. Houston has Francis. SA has Parker, Ginobili, etc.

    We'd have to consider at the very least parting with Ron. You'd also have to look at it as a preventative move. We can't allow Detroit to get McGrady. Nor do we want a West coast team to get him. Losing Ron would be tough, but a lineup consisting of JO, Al and McGrady would be pretty deadly. We'd have one of the best inside/outside combos in the league.
    I hope you are right Bullet because the Pacers are doing pretty good with the current roster as it is.

    Best record in the NBA, one of four teams left in the playoffs, tons of young talent still developing.

    We need minor tweaking not a major shake up.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    You wouldn't trade Artest to get McGrady? Preposterous!

    Artest is very valuable. He's a great Robin to someone else's Batman. But McGrady is Batman. He's not selfish, he's a good citizen, he'd guarantee a sellout virtually every game, he plays good defense, and he'd FINALLY give us something we've been lacking: a guy who can go for 50 when he needs to. None of our other players, Artest included, have proven to be completely unstoppable at this point in their career. McGrady has nights where he is unguardable, and he can pass the ball as well. He has the shooting and the penetration we need in one package. It would free up Tinsley to become more of a distributor. With McGrady's ability to bring the ball up and start the offense, we could play Fred Jones at the point. Every time we lose or he plays poorly, Artest complains about the team and the coaching. He has matured, but how long will it last in Carlisle's stifling system?

    I'd be willing to trade Artest and a couple draft picks, or Harrington and Bender + cap filler. Trading anyone short of O'Neal for McGrady is ripping the Magic off, but they are in the position to be ripped off, and so we should.

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    sweabs
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    I still would rather keep Artest. He will improve his basketball smarts, and continue to work on his offensive game.

    There is one thing that Artest has that McGrady doesn't (besides stellar defense) that is unteachable, and that is his determination and desire to compete night in night out. He is focussed, hard-nosed, and will leave everything out on the court every night. He will play through any injury without saying a word - and is quite simply - a competitor.

    Give me Artest over T-Mac.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    Tonight's game has made me more open to giving up Ron for McGrady. A game like tonight, Detroit ain't keeping T-Mac down. No way.

    I think we'd still play good team defense, and with McGrady probably average an additional 10ppg as a team.

    Plus, in a crunch situation he can be DEADLY. He can flat out score the ball on ANYONE. Let JO scores his 20+ throughout the game, but let McGrady pour it on in the clutch.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    Tonight's game has made me more open to giving up Ron for McGrady. A game like tonight, Detroit ain't keeping T-Mac down. No way.

    I think we'd still play good team defense, and with McGrady probably average an additional 10ppg as a team.

    Plus, in a crunch situation he can be DEADLY. He can flat out score the ball on ANYONE. Let JO scores his 20+ throughout the game, but let McGrady pour it on in the clutch.
    Also, McGrady is an effective passer. With him in there, not only does Foster get more layup points due to the drive and dish, O'Neal doesn't have to bang as much in the post, which keeps him healthier and more able to concentrate on the defensive end.

    Does anyone remember the first season O'Neal was here before he started truly developing his offense? He was a shot-blocking MONSTER. He could return to that form, while still putting up about 16 and 10.

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    Offical Thread Killer TheSauceMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    I wouldn't give up artest , you people think we win 61 games this year without Artest ? I say we lose 10 -20 games without Ron and we would have lost the Heat Series too.

    I would love to have Tmac , but only if it's with JO, Ron and TMac , if you have to give up Ron then I say no deal

    The object is too keep the defense intact and add to the offense , you don't go trading off the DPOY for more offense , because your gonna give up more on the Defensive end and remember Ron is pretty consistant on giving you 18 pts a game.

    If they did give up Ron , I would almost declare that a worse deal than the Brad Miller Deal.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    Even if trading Ron Artest for Tracy McGrady is a wash (which it isn't), then it still makes sense from a business standpoint. How many tickets a year does Ron Artest sell? How many times are people going to say, "Damn, lets go see Artest play tonight, I bet he drops 40 on the Magic".

    Now, how many people would say the same about McGrady?

    In simpler terms, McGrady would put butts in the seats. He's the type of electrifying player we don't have on this team, which is why the casual fans can't get behind the team. Say what you want about how Artest is a great player at both ends, which he is, but he's not going to sell out every game this coming season, and he's not going to be the sole reason that good veterans come to Indiana to get a ring.

    As to their abilities, Ron will hold the opposing team's best scorer about 5 points under their average, on average. Apply that to his scoring average. He'll also virtually guarantee that nobody goes off for 50 against us, unless they're a point guard, power forward, or center. He does nothing against marquee players at these positions. Offensively, assume that Ron ups his scoring total to 20ppg next year, because he will get better next year. Add in that 5 on average defensively. He now has a net effective 25ppg.

    McGrady will keep his defender at about their average. He won't stop anyone from scoring 50, but he negates that, because on any given night, he can drop 50 himself. Playing with the Pacers and their superior players, Tracy McGrady could easily average what he averaged 2 years ago, 32ppg. He now has a net effective 32ppg. Oh, and McGrady is only 25, so age isn't a major issue as it is with Ray Allen and others.

    McGrady is the better player, any way you slice it. For Ron to have the same net effect on the game, point-wise, he'd have to hold his defender 12 ppg below their average, ON AVERAGE. And for every Paul Pierce, who to make this average he'd only have to hold him to about 13 points, there's a guy like Caron Butler, who would almost have to go scoreless for Ron to meet that average.

    Face it, the hype that T-mac isn't that great is something you saw on ESPN once the Magic started losing. He's not a huge scorer on a bad team. He's a good citizen, he passes the ball, and he's absolutely lights out from the arc in. He creates his own shot, draws fouls, and does it without awful turnovers, or the fear that at any time, he could body slam the guy he's guarding, or jump into the stands to fight a fan. And no matter what you say of Artest's improved behavior, it's sitting right there, just waiting for a losing streak or a 2nd half of the season meltdown.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    Does anyone remember the first season O'Neal was here before he started truly developing his offense? He was a shot-blocking MONSTER. He could return to that form, while still putting up about 16 and 10.
    Because he's learned how to be a great post defender, he always draw the opponent's best post player now. His first year, Sam Perkins and Jon Tabak got that assignment while JO played goalie. He'll only return to playing goalie and blocking a gazillion shots if we get somebody *better* than him at post defense.

    Other than Shaq, Duncan, and Uncle Cliffy, I can't think of any better post defenders. Maybe his former teammates in Portland, Brian and 'Sheed - especially since each of them have been somewhat successful against JO in the playoffs this year?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
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    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    Like I said if It means trading ron , No Deal

    There are way too many SG's that will be available this next year. While Tmac would be nice , he is not required and I think we can get another solid SG without making a major Shake up of the Team.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Vescey - Hawks have permission to interview Mike Brown/more Pacers

    Does anyone remember the first season O'Neal was here before he started truly developing his offense? He was a shot-blocking MONSTER. He could return to that form, while still putting up about 16 and 10.
    Because he's learned how to be a great post defender, he always draw the opponent's best post player now. His first year, Sam Perkins and Jon Tabak got that assignment while JO played goalie. He'll only return to playing goalie and blocking a gazillion shots if we get somebody *better* than him at post defense.

    Other than Shaq, Duncan, and Uncle Cliffy, I can't think of any better post defenders. Maybe his former teammates in Portland, Brian and 'Sheed - especially since each of them have been somewhat successful against JO in the playoffs this year?
    Grant would be interesting, but he makes way too much money. I think Uncle Cliffy could maybe be had for cheap, though. I've always liked his game. Solid post defense, some shotblocking ability, and abilty to hit the 3. Kwame Brown played JO very well, but he might have just been getting up for the game, since they've been compared to each other.

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