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Thread: Off-Season Bust

  1. #1
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Off-Season Bust

    So much for our off-season acquisitions.

    Diener, Rush, and Stanko FTL!

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    One man show ajbry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    They've always been scrubs and will remain as such. I don't know why people acted like they would be legit contributors.

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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    They've always been scrubs and will remain as such. I don't know why people acted like they would be legit contributors.
    QFT.

    Diener was promising in the preseason, but that just shows how meaningless the preseason is. Rush has always been a bench warmer though.

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    Member OnlyPacersLeft's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    rush could be better he just doesn't have any drive...stanko sucks and diener is an undersized PG who can't shoot over people. He only hits when he's wide open...
    Quisy for the backup pg!
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    I'll admit I was very optimistic about acquiring Deiner and Rush because of how they might possibly fit into JOB's game plan. Unfortunately, it's not working out with either of them as hoped, and I don't think anyone knows where the problem lies particularly with Deiner. He just can't seem to find the bottom of the net though he does draw iron on nearly every shot. He's had far more playing time than Rush to make the adjustment, and yet he can't seem to find his shooting touch though it's clear he's only been off by a hair and that's whether his shot is contested or not.

    I think at this early stage you have to bench both of them - at the very least you keep Deiner on the active roster as your 3rd PG option in case Quis gets hurt or can't play due to his knee - and get both of them in the practise gym for shooting drills to try and find out what's wrong with their stroke.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    I really think judgement should be reserved on Rush. I'm sure he'll be very important for us at some point in the year. He's an assassin.


    I don't have expectations for Diener; never have. After watching Sarunas shine in the preseason I realized how little weight preseason games hold. Diener could be important for us if we have an injury; I'm hoping we don't.

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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I really think judgement should be reserved on Rush. I'm sure he'll be very important for us at some point in the year. He's an assassin.


    I don't have expectations for Diener; never have. After watching Sarunas shine in the preseason I realized how little weight preseason games hold. Diener could be important for us if we have an injury; I'm hoping we don't.
    Based on what exactly?

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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    If Tinsley goes down with an injury, I think we'll see a lot more out of Diener with some extended minutes. I know that guy can play, but I think it's his defense that's keeping him from playing right now. Rush is going to have some games where he makes some big shots, but it wont be on a consistent basis. Stanko? No comment.

  9. #9
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Did you think Shawne would have the only bust this off-season?



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  10. #10

    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    His postseason play, swagger, shooting ability, etc., what not? He has the 4th most relevant playoff experience on the team and knows how to win.

    Barring injury, I would be shocked if Rush doesn't have an important role on the team at some point.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Rush had a crucial role in getting us the win in the 4th quarter a few games back if memory serves me correct?
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    This isn't a very Thanksgivingy thread.

    Did you wake up this morning and think, "I am NOT giving thanks for our 10 and 11th men."
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  13. #13
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    I still think it's too early to call them busts.

    Damn.

    And the season is over already, too, right?
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    I still think it's too early to call them busts.
    I'm not calling them busts because I never expected anything of them in the first place.

    They're both very pedestrian bench players for the time being and nothing they have done thus far in their respective NBA careers has shown that they are worthy of being considered anything more.

    I don't understand why you people act like we should expect them to turn out to be solid NBA players, every team has its scrubs who get some minutes.

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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    His postseason play, swagger, shooting ability, etc., what not? He has the 4th most relevant playoff experience on the team and knows how to win.

    Barring injury, I would be shocked if Rush doesn't have an important role on the team at some point.
    His shooting ability is a myth. He is an average shooter and always has been. His postseason play is based off two good games against the T-Wolves. I don't know about his swagger I haven't seen it. If he has it its misplaced because he hasn't done a damn thing his whole career.

    Basically you're saying Kareem Rush is an assasin because he had two good playoff games against the T-Wolves. I guess that means Croshere is an assassin too.

    Look its fine to like Rush, but calling him an "assassin" is absolutely ridiculous. Reggie was an assassin, Kobe is an assassin, Wade is an assassin...Kareem Rush is not.

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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    I'm not calling them busts because I never expected anything of them in the first place.

    They're both very pedestrian bench players for the time being and nothing they have done thus far in their respective NBA careers has shown that they are worthy of being considered anything more.

    I don't understand why you people act like we should expect them to turn out to be solid NBA players, every team has its scrubs who get some minutes.
    I expect decent contributions out of them, that is all.

    But I guess I'm just foolish again for thinking they might make a few postive contributions to the team.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    His shooting ability is a myth. He is an average shooter and always has been. His postseason play is based off two good games against the T-Wolves. I don't know about his swagger I haven't seen it. If he has it its misplaced because he hasn't done a damn thing his whole career.

    Basically you're saying Kareem Rush is an assasin because he had two good playoff games against the T-Wolves. I guess that means Croshere is an assassin too.

    Look its fine to like Rush, but calling him an "assassin" is absolutely ridiculous. Reggie was an assassin, Kobe is an assassin, Wade is an assassin...Kareem Rush is not.
    Kareem has shown a clear knack for hitting big shots. I'm not sure what you're basing your opinions off of.

    His career 3PT% is way higher than Reggie's last season #s. I'm assuming you think Reggie wasn't a threat his last season? How about Kobe, Dwayne? Is their shooting mythical? Both are lower than Kareem. Dwayne and his career 24% from 3 makes him a real assassin.

    Robert Horry is an assassin. Btw, an assassin with a career PPG less than 1 point higher than Kareem's and a 3PT% only 0.02% higher. I'm not sure why I'm arguing this.

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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Kareem has shown a clear knack for hitting big shots. I'm not sure what you're basing your opinions off of.

    His career 3PT% is way higher than Reggie's last season #s. I'm assuming you think Reggie wasn't a threat his last season? How about Kobe, Dwayne? Is their shooting mythical? Both are lower than Kareem. Dwayne and his career 24% from 3 makes him a real assassin.

    Robert Horry is an assassin. Btw, an assassin with a career PPG less than 1 point higher than Kareem's and a 3PT% only 0.02% higher. I'm not sure why I'm arguing this.
    Kareem is a 34.3% career 3PT shooter. For being his only skill, he's pretty average in terms of players who can hit from deep.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    It's still Early. . RELAX
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Kareem has shown a clear knack for hitting big shots. I'm not sure what you're basing your opinions off of.

    His career 3PT% is way higher than Reggie's last season #s. I'm assuming you think Reggie wasn't a threat his last season? How about Kobe, Dwayne? Is their shooting mythical? Both are lower than Kareem. Dwayne and his career 24% from 3 makes him a real assassin.

    Robert Horry is an assassin. Btw, an assassin with a career PPG less than 1 point higher than Kareem's and a 3PT% only 0.02% higher. I'm not sure why I'm arguing this.
    Horry has hit game winning shots in conference finals and NBA finals. When has Rush ever done this? Rush is not an "assassin" never has been probably never will be.

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  21. #21
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    His shooting ability is a myth.
    QFT
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    After reading this thread, you wouldn't have thought we beat a 9-2 team last night.

    These players ARE NOT BUSTS. To say they are is alarmist and irresponsible. A bust would be someone like Kwame Brown who, as a #1 pick, was expected to be a franchise player in Washington but turned out to be a marginal player.

    Neither Diener nor Rush were brought in to do huge things in Indiana.

    I see Rush's role as a guy who can come in and hit a few nice jump shots when the team is ice cold, or a guy you could put in to divert defenders to the perimeter on a last second play to win a game (or he could even get the shot). Nothing more, nothing less. I don't recall anyone on this board ever saying he was an All-Star. We have him signed to a one year deal. Sheesh people.

    Diener on the other hand I have been more concerned about. He was brought in to be a shooter and so far he hasn't shown the ability to shoot the ball very well. His defense isn't very good (which was expected) but his ballhandling has been atrocious (unexpected). So far he reminds me of a certain someone on the roster last year. But then again it's been 11 games.

    It is somewhat amusing to hear people cry wolf 11 games into the season, some of these people being the same ones who want us to tank the season to get Eric Gordon. Why do you want us to win, why are you criticizing management, if you want us to suck and get a good draft pick?

    I'm not saying tanking is never the answer, sometimes it is. But I want to give this team the first half of the year at least.
    Last edited by idioteque; 11-22-2007 at 04:22 PM.

  23. #23
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    DC, this thread doesn't have anything to do with us winning last night. It does have to do with Travis not getting off the bench and Rush playing very poorly in the few minutes he had.

    I don't really have a problem with Travis and Kareem, because I didn't expect anything from either. I do have a problem with Andre (and to a lesser extent, Stephen) not getting any run at all.
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  24. #24
    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    DC, this thread doesn't have anything to do with us winning last night. It does have to do with Travis not getting off the bench and Rush playing very poorly in the few minutes he had.
    I understand, but again, Rush just isn't that good. He's basically a poor man's Robert Horry. I know he is getting paid at or near the vet's minimum, and is only signed on for a year. To me he's a slight upgrade over standard roster filler because he does have a nice touch and I think in the future he'll have the ability to hit big shots in important situations. In fact he already showed that in the Miami game.

    I'd like to know what you all actually expected from Rush. Kegboy I think we're really agreeing with each other more than anything on this.

    You can argue that we needed to do more in the past offseason, but that shouldn't be tied to any argument that Deiner and Rush are busts, because they were never anointed by anyone to be the "saviors" of this team that some wanted to obtain during the offseason.


    I don't really have a problem with Travis and Kareem, because I didn't expect anything from either. I do have a problem with Andre (and to a lesser extent, Stephen) not getting any run at all.
    I remember in the last Obie radio show he sort of alluded to Stephen getting some more time in the future.

    And yes, Andre Owens should get more PT. And I think when Marquis has to sit out again he will get PT over Deiner.

  25. #25
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off-Season Bust

    Rush and Diener are below average backups based on their performance including 34% from the floor.

    Great shooters? LOL.

    For awhile, Diener had me fooled. I'll still give them both some time, but they no longer have any expectations to meet IMO.

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