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Thread: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

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    Member Brian's Avatar
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    Default In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Isnt this the team that most of you guys wanted,after all the sjax/artest stuff?,I mean now we have "character" guys.While we arent winning I do believe that this is the kind of team that alot of people wanted.

    With the exception of mel mel.
    LoneGranger33 said
    Agreed. As the members of Guns and Roses once said, "every rose has its thorn".

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    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
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    Isnt this the team that most of you guys wanted,after all the sjax/artest stuff?,I mean now we have "character" guys.While we arent winning I do believe that this is the kind of team that alot of people wanted.

    With the exception of mel mel.
    He's been the main one I've wanted gone. Never really liked him... tried, but never have.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
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    Isnt this the team that most of you guys wanted,after all the sjax/artest stuff?,I mean now we have "character" guys.While we arent winning I do believe that this is the kind of team that alot of people wanted.

    With the exception of mel mel.
    How about a good team with mature professional players? Is that really too much to ask from today's NBA?

    I know asking the players to stop fighting with fans and stop firing guns on our streets seems like a lot to ask, but for millions of dollars I would think they could refrain.


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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    How about a good team with mature professional players? Is that really too much to ask from today's NBA?

    I know asking the players to stop fighting with fans and stop firing guns on our streets seems like a lot to ask, but for millions of dollars I would think they could refrain.


    I agree 110%,but I think alot of people were more concerned with getting character and didnt really think about at what cost.I think we gave up talent for character.We could've gotten back better talent,but the pacers couldnt take a risk on anymore "thug" types.

    Now we kinda have to play with the cards we have been dealt.But at the end of the day,I do think this is the team that alot of people wanted.Obviously not the losing part,but on the character part I think this is pretty close to what everyone wanted.


    Minus mel-mel of course.
    LoneGranger33 said
    Agreed. As the members of Guns and Roses once said, "every rose has its thorn".

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    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    I would like to see this team with a solid PG.

    Ha, I'd like to see this team with no Tinsley. Just Quis, Diener and Owens for a game... just to see what happens.

    I don't think it was a coincidence that Anthony Johnson and Keith McLeod did a solid job of running the team without Tinsley!

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    The kind of team I want is the team we had the year of the brawl (before it happened). Say what you want, but they were kicking ***, they were tough, they were aggressive, and they had an extremely confident swagger about them. Our team right now doesn't have heart, lacks a swagger, lacks leadership, lacks edge, and doesn't have enough talent. Right now everybody is trying to do the same thing, and that's shoot. We're not a good shooting team, so Larry needs to either bring in some players that can actually shoot, or Jimmy O needs to come up with a better plan and adjust to what the hell we do have.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
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    I agree 110%,but I think alot of people were more concerned with getting character and didnt really think about at what cost.I think we gave up talent for character.We could've gotten back better talent,but the pacers couldnt take a risk on anymore "thug" types.

    Now we kinda have to play with the cards we have been dealt.But at the end of the day,I do think this is the team that alot of people wanted.Obviously not the losing part,but on the character part I think this is pretty close to what everyone wanted.


    Minus mel-mel of course.
    From a character standpoint, yes this is closer to the team many fans want to see.

    However, I reject the notion that purging bad character guys automatically leads to a bad team. Instead, I look it as the first step to recovery. All in all, I am more optimistic than I was one year ago.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Ok,let me ask all of you this:

    Lets say if we traded troy murphy for bonzi wells (im just throwing names out there to use as an example)

    Ok we get Bonzi,he gets several technicals.But we improve in our wins,but we kinda take a hit from the PR standpoint with having another "immature player".

    Or we keep Murphy,he doesnt get any technicals.We dont take any hit from a PR standpoint,But we stay the way we are now,hoping that the team turns the corner for the better.

    Which one would you choose?
    LoneGranger33 said
    Agreed. As the members of Guns and Roses once said, "every rose has its thorn".

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Getting Bonzi Wells is plain dumb. That's like putting a band-aid on a gushing head wound and trying to get back right back out there.

    We're better off going to the hospital for a couple of years and recovering fully. It's better for the longterm sustainability of the team. Bonzi Wells will do nothing for the Pacers in the longterm. He won't lead us to championships and what's the point to basically returning to where we were at the middle of last season?

    I don't care if we suck this year as long as we try. The good draft picks will come. I'd rather have Eric Gordon for 10-15 years than a mediocre *** Bonzi for 5.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    I've said it before. If you have a coach that's a known disciplinarian that won't deal with crap from his players no matter who they are, then we can take a risk getting a player. JO'B and Larry Bird both seem to be on the same page in regards to discipline. Therefore I'd take a chance on Bonzi Wells in the mentioned scenario., and I'd take the wins that go along with it. If we win, the fans will come.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
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    Ok,let me ask all of you this:

    Lets say if we traded troy murphy for bonzi wells (im just throwing names out there to use as an example)

    Ok we get Bonzi,he gets several technicals.But we improve in our wins,but we kinda take a hit from the PR standpoint with having another "immature player".

    Or we keep Murphy,he doesnt get any technicals.We dont take any hit from a PR standpoint,But we stay the way we are now,hoping that the team turns the corner for the better.

    Which one would you choose?
    What a choice. Cancer or heart attack, eh?

    I understand this is just hypothetical, but I truly believe there's at least one more choice that is far more palatable....say the 1995-2000 Pacers for example.

    In any event, I would take Murphy unless Wells' contract was significantly shorter..with the goal of getting out of Murph's contract. If it were Artest, I would feel the same way. He's better, but I would rather lose.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I know asking the players to stop fighting with fans and stop firing guns on our streets seems like a lot to ask, but for millions of dollars I would think they could refrain.

    I have two takes on this.

    #1. I agree that they should change.

    #2. Someone's salary has nothing to do with class, the one's acting childish have been acting that way forever, it doesn't matter if they're in the NBDL making $30,000 a year or the NBA making $15,000,000 a year. They are still the same person. And very few people change class with lifestyle from my experiences. Basically the bottom line is: We can not want them to act the way they do, but they aren't going to change. The only solution, IMO, for this is to either deal with it or trade them. Which is what happened and we suck. So we either have troublemakers or a winning team. I'd personally rather have a good team and not worry about what they do at Club Rio. If they get into trouble so be it, what Jackson, Tinsley and Co. have done off court is 5x better than what Artest did on court. Artest's problems were potentially costing us games b/c it was on court, Jax and Tinsley weren't. I do not condone what they did but I'd rather them act like children on court and still win than on court and/or be a sucky team.


    And FWIW I still wish we had Jackson.
    Last edited by IndyFan032589; 11-15-2007 at 12:53 AM.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    If anyone thought trading bad character, but good talent players would immediately lead to equally talented good character players, they were fooling themselves. One step at a time. Even then I don't think the downgrade was awful, but the team does look awful right now.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Yep, this is pretty much the team I wanted. Well, except I'd trade Jamaal and JO for some milk-drinking prospects, and let the team grow and learn together. The wins would come in about 2 years when OJ Mayo or Eric Gordon are lighting it up for us.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Through 7 games Tinsley shooting 32% fg 25% 3fg 68% ft ... this is one of our problems.

    28 of 86 doesn't get it done.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    Yep, this is pretty much the team I wanted. Well, except I'd trade Jamaal and JO for some milk-drinking prospects, and let the team grow and learn together. The wins would come in about 2 years when OJ Mayo or Eric Gordon are lighting it up for us.



    The worst that could happen is we end up like the Hawks.
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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanGrangerPwrRanger View Post
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    The worst that could happen is we end up like the Hawks.
    That'd be the worst.....their courtside tickets are $50 more than ours too. LOL

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    Yep, this is pretty much the team I wanted. Well, except I'd trade Jamaal and JO for some milk-drinking prospects, and let the team grow and learn together. The wins would come in about 2 years when OJ Mayo or Eric Gordon are lighting it up for us.
    Has anyone on this board read a single damn thing about OJ Mayo's history? I mean Jesus Christ people do some research. We talk about not wanting anymore head cases, but you want bring in a guy like Mayo??? Are you kidding me? The guys nuttier than Jack and Ron put together, and if you think I'm joking watch what he does to USC this year. If you think his 12/27 shooting night with 8 turnovers was an anomaly then you simply have not done your homework on the guy. Sure he can score, but hes a horrible decision maker and I pity the poor franchise that thinks this screw up is going to be their future superstar let alone their future superstar PG.

    I mean c'mon people the guy had to go to FOUR different high schools! FOUR! You're only in high school for FOUR freakin' years!

    Sorry for the Mayo rant and its not just aimed at you in particular EIndar, but seriously if we draft Mayo I will strongly consider not being a Pacer fan any longer because it will show me that our front office is officially clueless. And this is coming from a guy that would welcome pretty much any current NBA player on to this team at this point. Give me another 4 years of Ron Artest before you even give me two years of OJ Mayo. I mean that sincerely.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 11-15-2007 at 02:28 AM.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    I reject the notion that it is an either/or scenario.

    You either have talent or you have good characters is not something I believe in.

    What we are seeing is the end result of years of keeping talent at the expense of character and then still to this day not totally purging some of the character issues we have.

    So I guess to answer the main question, no.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    From a character standpoint, yes this is closer to the team many fans want to see.

    However, I reject the notion that purging bad character guys automatically leads to a bad team. Instead, I look it as the first step to recovery. All in all, I am more optimistic than I was one year ago.
    Portland got rid of bad character guys and got talent to replace it, but it took them awhile. They got rid of guys like Rasheed, Bonzi and Damon Stoudamire. They got nothing in return for those guys, but in the NBA never underestimate the power of nothing (as in no long term contracts).

    Those guys eventually rebuilt through the draft. Took some time, but now it looks like they're getting back into the swing of things. They had to take their lumps for a couple years, but it looks like they've got a nice situation right now.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    I think alot of pacers fan were expecting us to be like the spurs,have high character guys.Maybe not crazy winning like the spurs do,but better than we were with artest/sjax.
    LoneGranger33 said
    Agreed. As the members of Guns and Roses once said, "every rose has its thorn".

  22. #22

    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    No its not the team I wanted..
    I dont like anything about this current team ..
    I wish they'd have had a fire sale and started completely over.
    that I could have lived with..
    This team has no athletic ability...poor passing team and will struggle on the offensive boards...
    Like I said ...30-51 if theyre lucky... theyre 3-5 right now so theyre on pace

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    in all honesty - no

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    Mostly yes.

    While far from perfect, I feel much better about this team than in the last
    couple of years.

    And as a result, will be attending more games this season than in the last
    couple put together.

    They have shown flashes of promise, and am finding their transformation
    fascinating.

    Am not overly worried about the current losing streak...it will not last
    forever.

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    Default Re: In all honesty,Isnt this the team most of you wanted?

    I like this team.

    Once Tinsley is gone I will really like this team.

    I do not think this team lacks talent.

    I think that it's quite possible that if JO and Tins were to dissapear somehow, that the Pacers would start playing like Philadelphia did at the end of last year once Iverson went away. Look at Iguodala's numbers once Iverson was gone. We could very well see a similar jump from Granger once he knows he's the best player on the team.

    All in all, there were five players I've wanted to see go in the last few years. Here they are in order.

    1. Tinsley
    2. Artest
    3. Jackson
    4. Harrington
    5. JO
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