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Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

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  • Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    First of all, Carlise gets a lot of credit, not that I disliked the guy before. However, he wasnt making any adjustments in Detroit and showed no signs that he ever would, but hey, maybe he learned a lesson from his last job. If Carlisle isn't first for not making adjustments, who's to say he changes his ways? Its a fair question.

    The Pacers played their best game of the playoffs. No question. Every man was playing at or near his best, there was even some shotmaking from Artest and Miller, guys who I usually dont expect that from anymore. They simply played harder than we did.

    I think the telling play of the game was when the pistons allowed Anthony johnson to stroll down the lane for an UNCONTESTED LAYUP, with Ben Wallace a foot away. We werent contesting shots like we were before.

    Jermiane Oneal did a Ben Wallace impression last night. He was GREAT on the defensive glass as well as his man. A night worthy of an MVP candidate.

    Artest still didnt impress me a whole lot, except some of the slop he missed in games 1-3 went in this time around. He's still not getting great looks, aside from two nice drives to the hole.

    As for my boys.......Rip Hamilton is exempt from any critisism, but good lord, I've never seen so many self-inflicted mistakes. The Pacers swarmed on D, but they did NOT forse Tayshawn, Rasheed, Ben Corliss and countless other to simply DROP uncontested passes out of bounds. I think chauncey dribbled an INBOUNDS PASS off his foot. I could live with the Pacers simply outplaying us, which they did anyway, but to simply LAY DOWN like that is unforgivable.

    Billups also needs to attack more. Every time he does it, the Pacer guards foul him and he creates for others.

    LArry Brown has typically done very well when the other team's thrown a wrinkle his way, and I'm sure given 2 days of planning that LArry will find ways o exploit Croshere. There's a reason Croshere hasnt started all year, and I noticed it, although we didnt take advantage. Croshere isnt big enough to defend or rebound with Rasheed Wallace, so he simply fronts the post and waits for help. We should REALLY be able to take advantage of that. I also noticed that Croshere doesnt rebound as much as he tries to punch the ball out to a teamate. We also got into the lane a lot in the 2nd half, only to fumble the ball out of bounds.

    The Pacers offensively are obviously better with croshere in there, but the pistons offensively will be able to draw immidiate double-teams in the post, so they should be better too.

    I'm not really depressed, because its only a 2-2 series. I also believe that the Pistons will come out with the same fire in game 5 that the Pacers did in game 4. They know if they go down 3-2 they're in a huge hole.

    Ah well, live and learn I suppose.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  • #2
    Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    The Pacers played their best game of the playoffs. No question. Every man was playing at or near his best, there was even some shotmaking from Artest and Miller, guys who I usually dont expect that from anymore. They simply played harder than we did.
    I concur. Ron made a tough, tough three and Reggie stepped up and hit the shots he was supposed to make. They played exceptionally well.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

      Quick question. Didnt Rick adjust in Detroit by playing Tayshaun in the Orlando series? Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that he made that adjustment and then you guys went on to defeat Orlando and make it to the next round. Please correct me if I am mistaken but that sure seems like the exact same kind of adjustment that he made last night with Cro.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

        ya, Tayshun... hello!?

        He gets alot of flack cause they didnt get to the finals. I bet the Pistons fans will say the same thing about Larry as they did Rick. Maybe even the players too.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

          Quick question. Didnt Rick adjust in Detroit by playing Tayshaun in the Orlando series? Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that he made that adjustment and then you guys went on to defeat Orlando and make it to the next round. Please correct me if I am mistaken but that sure seems like the exact same kind of adjustment that he made last night with Cro.
          Problem is, most people felt rick was basically FORCED to make that adjustment. We were down 3-1 to an EIGHTH seed, the rumor was that if DIDNT try Tay he wasnt even going to make it out the door after we lost the series. This time he didnt wait till he was facing elimination with 20,000 angry people breathing down his neck.

          I'll also add that Tay over Curry was such an OBVIOUS adjustment, thats what angered people. Everyone in the building knew Prince was bette rthan Curry in every concievable way, yet Curry continued to play only because he had seniority. Thats what turned a lot of guys off about Carlisle.

          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

            ya, Tayshun... hello!?

            He gets alot of flack cause they didnt get to the finals. I bet the Pistons fans will say the same thing about Larry as they did Rick. Maybe even the players too.
            Um, no. getting trampled by NJ last year wasnt the reason rick got fired. NJ was just the better team. The main reason was Rick didnt like ownership, and ownership HATED Carlisle. Not saying I agree with it, but that was Mr. Davidson's call. I didn't want Rick gone, though I'm happy with LB.

            Now, if Indiana had EMBARRASSED us in the ECF like NJ did, yes Larry Brown would catch a LOT of heat. But if we lose in 7 games, I don't think thats something to be ashamed of. There are two teams very close in talent and ability. Larry shouldnt be EXPECTED to beat or be beaten by Indiana.

            It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

            Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
            Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
            NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

              Problem is, most people felt rick was basically FORCED to make that adjustment. We were down 3-1 to an EIGHTH seed, the rumor was that if DIDNT try Tay he wasnt even going to make it out the door after we lost the series. This time he didnt wait till he was facing elimination with 20,000 angry people breathing down his neck.

              I'll also add that Tay over Curry was such an OBVIOUS adjustment, thats what angered people. Everyone in the building knew Prince was bette rthan Curry in every concievable way, yet Curry continued to play only because he had seniority. Thats what turned a lot of guys off about Carlisle.
              Maybe at the time it looked like he was made to do it but in the harsh reality of hindsite and being able to look at what he did last night isnt it possible that he simply made the adjustment on his own?

              That maybe while he is slow to adjust, Unlike Isiah's adjust in any nonsensical way that he pulls out of his @ss and if there is an adjustment that will save the series he is willing to make it before it is too late as in the Orlando series and now in the Pacers/Detroit series.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

                As much as I have always loved Larry Brown, but you could say he is more stubborn than Rick. Larry always ends up trading players till he gets the type team "he" wants, he doesn't adjust to them, they adjust to him or they'll be on another team. Look at his history. Is he still a great coach ? Of course he is, but so is Carlisle.
                "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG" - Carol "The Walking Dead"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

                  Problem is, most people felt rick was basically FORCED to make that adjustment. We were down 3-1 to an EIGHTH seed, the rumor was that if DIDNT try Tay he wasnt even going to make it out the door after we lost the series. This time he didnt wait till he was facing elimination with 20,000 angry people breathing down his neck.

                  I'll also add that Tay over Curry was such an OBVIOUS adjustment, thats what angered people. Everyone in the building knew Prince was bette rthan Curry in every concievable way, yet Curry continued to play only because he had seniority. Thats what turned a lot of guys off about Carlisle.
                  Maybe at the time it looked like he was made to do it but in the harsh reality of hindsite and being able to look at what he did last night isnt it possible that he simply made the adjustment on his own?

                  That maybe while he is slow to adjust, Unlike Isiah's adjust in any nonsensical way that he pulls out of his @ss and if there is an adjustment that will save the series he is willing to make it before it is too late as in the Orlando series and now in the Pacers/Detroit series.
                  Well obviously, the owner cant sup Tay for Curry, only the coach can. But if Rick wasnt getting ultimatums left and right thrown his way, I honestly think the Pistons would have gotten bounced by orlando last year.

                  It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                  Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                  Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                  NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

                    I think the players got spoiled by Ricks good coaching. Which, of course, when that happens it's obviously time for a change, but he was the best coach that team had since Daly. I wonder if they will feel the same about Larry, cause he seems to be alot more abrasive with his players than Rick. He won't just call out his players in the lockeroom. He will call them out on TV. Tayshun last night is an example.
                    But Kstat, from your perspective, doesn't it seem like LB is really hurtin Billups game too?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

                      As much as I have always loved Larry Brown, but you could say he is more stubborn than Rick. Larry always ends up trading players till he gets the type team "he" wants, he doesn't adjust to them, they adjust to him or they'll be on another team. Look at his history. Is he still a great coach ? Of course he is, but so is Carlisle.
                      Actually, I'd point out to you that offensively we are NOT a Larry Brown team, and LArry has adjusted his system accordingly. We take a LOT of threes for a Larry Brown team, and he ALLOWS Chauncey to take over a game offensively when he feels it would be best for the team. And on the same token, he's taught chauncey to be a pure pass-first PG. He's finding court vision he didnt even know he had.

                      Larry will ALWAYS be a stubborn coach, but I was really impressed with the fact that he was willing to meet guys halfway on how the team should play.

                      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

                        I think the players got spoiled by Ricks good coaching. Which, of course, when that happens it's obviously time for a change, but he was the best coach that team had since Daly. I wonder if they will feel the same about Larry, cause he seems to be alot more abrasive with his players than Rick. He won't just call out his players in the lockeroom. He will call them out on TV. Tayshun last night is an example.
                        But Kstat, from your perspective, doesn't it seem like LB is really hurtin Billups game too?
                        Why? his assists are up, he's getting guys involved, and Billups has the green light to create shots whenever he deems neccessary. Billups is a MUCH better player than he was last year, and anyone who's seen him all year will tell you that.

                        I also find it ironic that everyone has taken so much to LB, even though he has no qualms about calling his team out. I think its because Larry is always being honest, and unlike most pro coaches, he's a TEACHER. He's perfectly willing to further guy's careers by improving on their weaknesses. Ben, Rip and Chauncey are great examples of that.

                        It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                        Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                        Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                        NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

                          ya, maybe Kstat, I don't see it this series with Billups though.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

                            ya, maybe Kstat, I don't see it this series with Billups though.
                            I think thats more on billups than brown though. ITs BILLUPS'S decision to break the offense and try to score on his own, not Larry. Larry doesnt get on his case about that anymore. Problem is chauncey is so concerned with getting guys involved that he doesnt realize he is the pacers 2nd iggest matchup problem.

                            I think he just needs to realize QUICKER when guys just arent bringing it and he needs to take over.

                            It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                            Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                            Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                            NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

                              It's not a 7 game series anymore.

                              The past is gone....

                              ... the future yet to be!

                              Mentally this is just another three game series.

                              2 of those games are in Indiana.

                              BYE BYE_ Pistons!
                              Unless we lose game 5...
                              Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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