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Thread: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

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    Default Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    First of all, Carlise gets a lot of credit, not that I disliked the guy before. However, he wasnt making any adjustments in Detroit and showed no signs that he ever would, but hey, maybe he learned a lesson from his last job. If Carlisle isn't first for not making adjustments, who's to say he changes his ways? Its a fair question.

    The Pacers played their best game of the playoffs. No question. Every man was playing at or near his best, there was even some shotmaking from Artest and Miller, guys who I usually dont expect that from anymore. They simply played harder than we did.

    I think the telling play of the game was when the pistons allowed Anthony johnson to stroll down the lane for an UNCONTESTED LAYUP, with Ben Wallace a foot away. We werent contesting shots like we were before.

    Jermiane Oneal did a Ben Wallace impression last night. He was GREAT on the defensive glass as well as his man. A night worthy of an MVP candidate.

    Artest still didnt impress me a whole lot, except some of the slop he missed in games 1-3 went in this time around. He's still not getting great looks, aside from two nice drives to the hole.

    As for my boys.......Rip Hamilton is exempt from any critisism, but good lord, I've never seen so many self-inflicted mistakes. The Pacers swarmed on D, but they did NOT forse Tayshawn, Rasheed, Ben Corliss and countless other to simply DROP uncontested passes out of bounds. I think chauncey dribbled an INBOUNDS PASS off his foot. I could live with the Pacers simply outplaying us, which they did anyway, but to simply LAY DOWN like that is unforgivable.

    Billups also needs to attack more. Every time he does it, the Pacer guards foul him and he creates for others.

    LArry Brown has typically done very well when the other team's thrown a wrinkle his way, and I'm sure given 2 days of planning that LArry will find ways o exploit Croshere. There's a reason Croshere hasnt started all year, and I noticed it, although we didnt take advantage. Croshere isnt big enough to defend or rebound with Rasheed Wallace, so he simply fronts the post and waits for help. We should REALLY be able to take advantage of that. I also noticed that Croshere doesnt rebound as much as he tries to punch the ball out to a teamate. We also got into the lane a lot in the 2nd half, only to fumble the ball out of bounds.

    The Pacers offensively are obviously better with croshere in there, but the pistons offensively will be able to draw immidiate double-teams in the post, so they should be better too.

    I'm not really depressed, because its only a 2-2 series. I also believe that the Pistons will come out with the same fire in game 5 that the Pacers did in game 4. They know if they go down 3-2 they're in a huge hole.

    Ah well, live and learn I suppose.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    The Pacers played their best game of the playoffs. No question. Every man was playing at or near his best, there was even some shotmaking from Artest and Miller, guys who I usually dont expect that from anymore. They simply played harder than we did.
    I concur. Ron made a tough, tough three and Reggie stepped up and hit the shots he was supposed to make. They played exceptionally well.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Quick question. Didnt Rick adjust in Detroit by playing Tayshaun in the Orlando series? Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that he made that adjustment and then you guys went on to defeat Orlando and make it to the next round. Please correct me if I am mistaken but that sure seems like the exact same kind of adjustment that he made last night with Cro.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    ya, Tayshun... hello!?

    He gets alot of flack cause they didnt get to the finals. I bet the Pistons fans will say the same thing about Larry as they did Rick. Maybe even the players too.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Quick question. Didnt Rick adjust in Detroit by playing Tayshaun in the Orlando series? Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that he made that adjustment and then you guys went on to defeat Orlando and make it to the next round. Please correct me if I am mistaken but that sure seems like the exact same kind of adjustment that he made last night with Cro.
    Problem is, most people felt rick was basically FORCED to make that adjustment. We were down 3-1 to an EIGHTH seed, the rumor was that if DIDNT try Tay he wasnt even going to make it out the door after we lost the series. This time he didnt wait till he was facing elimination with 20,000 angry people breathing down his neck.

    I'll also add that Tay over Curry was such an OBVIOUS adjustment, thats what angered people. Everyone in the building knew Prince was bette rthan Curry in every concievable way, yet Curry continued to play only because he had seniority. Thats what turned a lot of guys off about Carlisle.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    ya, Tayshun... hello!?

    He gets alot of flack cause they didnt get to the finals. I bet the Pistons fans will say the same thing about Larry as they did Rick. Maybe even the players too.
    Um, no. getting trampled by NJ last year wasnt the reason rick got fired. NJ was just the better team. The main reason was Rick didnt like ownership, and ownership HATED Carlisle. Not saying I agree with it, but that was Mr. Davidson's call. I didn't want Rick gone, though I'm happy with LB.

    Now, if Indiana had EMBARRASSED us in the ECF like NJ did, yes Larry Brown would catch a LOT of heat. But if we lose in 7 games, I don't think thats something to be ashamed of. There are two teams very close in talent and ability. Larry shouldnt be EXPECTED to beat or be beaten by Indiana.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Problem is, most people felt rick was basically FORCED to make that adjustment. We were down 3-1 to an EIGHTH seed, the rumor was that if DIDNT try Tay he wasnt even going to make it out the door after we lost the series. This time he didnt wait till he was facing elimination with 20,000 angry people breathing down his neck.

    I'll also add that Tay over Curry was such an OBVIOUS adjustment, thats what angered people. Everyone in the building knew Prince was bette rthan Curry in every concievable way, yet Curry continued to play only because he had seniority. Thats what turned a lot of guys off about Carlisle.
    Maybe at the time it looked like he was made to do it but in the harsh reality of hindsite and being able to look at what he did last night isnt it possible that he simply made the adjustment on his own?

    That maybe while he is slow to adjust, Unlike Isiah's adjust in any nonsensical way that he pulls out of his @ss and if there is an adjustment that will save the series he is willing to make it before it is too late as in the Orlando series and now in the Pacers/Detroit series.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    As much as I have always loved Larry Brown, but you could say he is more stubborn than Rick. Larry always ends up trading players till he gets the type team "he" wants, he doesn't adjust to them, they adjust to him or they'll be on another team. Look at his history. Is he still a great coach ? Of course he is, but so is Carlisle.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Problem is, most people felt rick was basically FORCED to make that adjustment. We were down 3-1 to an EIGHTH seed, the rumor was that if DIDNT try Tay he wasnt even going to make it out the door after we lost the series. This time he didnt wait till he was facing elimination with 20,000 angry people breathing down his neck.

    I'll also add that Tay over Curry was such an OBVIOUS adjustment, thats what angered people. Everyone in the building knew Prince was bette rthan Curry in every concievable way, yet Curry continued to play only because he had seniority. Thats what turned a lot of guys off about Carlisle.
    Maybe at the time it looked like he was made to do it but in the harsh reality of hindsite and being able to look at what he did last night isnt it possible that he simply made the adjustment on his own?

    That maybe while he is slow to adjust, Unlike Isiah's adjust in any nonsensical way that he pulls out of his @ss and if there is an adjustment that will save the series he is willing to make it before it is too late as in the Orlando series and now in the Pacers/Detroit series.
    Well obviously, the owner cant sup Tay for Curry, only the coach can. But if Rick wasnt getting ultimatums left and right thrown his way, I honestly think the Pistons would have gotten bounced by orlando last year.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    I think the players got spoiled by Ricks good coaching. Which, of course, when that happens it's obviously time for a change, but he was the best coach that team had since Daly. I wonder if they will feel the same about Larry, cause he seems to be alot more abrasive with his players than Rick. He won't just call out his players in the lockeroom. He will call them out on TV. Tayshun last night is an example.
    But Kstat, from your perspective, doesn't it seem like LB is really hurtin Billups game too?

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    As much as I have always loved Larry Brown, but you could say he is more stubborn than Rick. Larry always ends up trading players till he gets the type team "he" wants, he doesn't adjust to them, they adjust to him or they'll be on another team. Look at his history. Is he still a great coach ? Of course he is, but so is Carlisle.
    Actually, I'd point out to you that offensively we are NOT a Larry Brown team, and LArry has adjusted his system accordingly. We take a LOT of threes for a Larry Brown team, and he ALLOWS Chauncey to take over a game offensively when he feels it would be best for the team. And on the same token, he's taught chauncey to be a pure pass-first PG. He's finding court vision he didnt even know he had.

    Larry will ALWAYS be a stubborn coach, but I was really impressed with the fact that he was willing to meet guys halfway on how the team should play.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    I think the players got spoiled by Ricks good coaching. Which, of course, when that happens it's obviously time for a change, but he was the best coach that team had since Daly. I wonder if they will feel the same about Larry, cause he seems to be alot more abrasive with his players than Rick. He won't just call out his players in the lockeroom. He will call them out on TV. Tayshun last night is an example.
    But Kstat, from your perspective, doesn't it seem like LB is really hurtin Billups game too?
    Why? his assists are up, he's getting guys involved, and Billups has the green light to create shots whenever he deems neccessary. Billups is a MUCH better player than he was last year, and anyone who's seen him all year will tell you that.

    I also find it ironic that everyone has taken so much to LB, even though he has no qualms about calling his team out. I think its because Larry is always being honest, and unlike most pro coaches, he's a TEACHER. He's perfectly willing to further guy's careers by improving on their weaknesses. Ben, Rip and Chauncey are great examples of that.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    ya, maybe Kstat, I don't see it this series with Billups though.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    ya, maybe Kstat, I don't see it this series with Billups though.
    I think thats more on billups than brown though. ITs BILLUPS'S decision to break the offense and try to score on his own, not Larry. Larry doesnt get on his case about that anymore. Problem is chauncey is so concerned with getting guys involved that he doesnt realize he is the pacers 2nd iggest matchup problem.

    I think he just needs to realize QUICKER when guys just arent bringing it and he needs to take over.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    It's not a 7 game series anymore.

    The past is gone....

    ... the future yet to be!

    Mentally this is just another three game series.

    2 of those games are in Indiana.

    BYE BYE_ Pistons!
    Unless we lose game 5...
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    It's not a 7 game series anymore.

    The past is gone....

    ... the future yet to be!

    Mentally this is just another three game series.

    2 of those games are in Indiana.

    BYE BYE_ Pistons!
    Unless we lose game 5...
    Exactly...can't be too confident.

    The Pistons already beat us once in our house...who's to say they won't do it again?

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Quick question. Didnt Rick adjust in Detroit by playing Tayshaun in the Orlando series? Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that he made that adjustment and then you guys went on to defeat Orlando and make it to the next round. Please correct me if I am mistaken but that sure seems like the exact same kind of adjustment that he made last night with Cro.
    Problem is, most people felt rick was basically FORCED to make that adjustment. We were down 3-1 to an EIGHTH seed, the rumor was that if DIDNT try Tay he wasnt even going to make it out the door after we lost the series. This time he didnt wait till he was facing elimination with 20,000 angry people breathing down his neck.

    I'll also add that Tay over Curry was such an OBVIOUS adjustment, thats what angered people. Everyone in the building knew Prince was bette rthan Curry in every concievable way, yet Curry continued to play only because he had seniority. Thats what turned a lot of guys off about Carlisle.
    This whole thing reminded me of Bird sticking with Mullin over Rose in '99. Huge mistake, and he owned up to it afterward, too.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Kstat,
    I'm a moderator on a Pistons MB and posted my frustration after coming home from the game. Here are the posts. You will sense my frustration as well...
    This is three posts put in the same one so it's very long.

    Just got back from the game:
    1. Who says you can't change your lineup. Mr. non-versatile Rick Carlisle change his starting lineup and Croshere was simply awesome. He forced Ben out of the paint and that set the tempo for the game. We simply didn't make the lane a painful place to be. We didn't contest shots. We allowed Indy to take 5-7 footers through penetration with little or no resistance. Usually the defenders just turned hoping for a board. This wasn't the defense that got us the 2-1 lead. In short it was disheartening to see. Indiana learned tonight that there were rewards to be earned getting the ball inside. We taught them that lesson with our soft interior defense.

    2. I never thought I'd say this but that game was one of the worst I've seen from Ben defensively in terms of contesting shots. He got tons of boards but his defense wasn't close to Ben's standards. He just allowed Crosier to jack up those treys.

    3. Artest is the only one that can defend himself - we learned that tonight and it was something we suspected when the series began. Prince was a joke on Artest tonight. Williamson - a bigger joke. Who do we match up on this guy?

    4. Question - how does Reggie remain so open?

    5. Another question - We're down big (16 pts) in the second half and we go out of a time out and two straight possessions post up Ben. Come on.

    6. He played only a handful of minutes but Campbell was pretty darned effective when he was out there. And he was one of the few that really contested interior shots. Why didn't he see more time. We needed a physical presence underneath all night long. We finally found one and used him for about four minutes. Mmmmm.

    7. O'Neal his hurt. Tinsley is hurt. Post up on them. Well Rasheed did that much. But he didn't look to take it inside, just use that fade jumper.

    8. Okur - be stronger with your shots inside. Those were some really weak shots. Heck, everyone be assertive with your shots! Wd just din't see that.

    9. We had it down to 5 late in the first half. Billups takes a three and misses. Before the half is over it's 10. I knew right then this game was in dire straits.

    ---------------
    A few other things.

    1. Indiana mentally grew up tonight. Winning in Indy isn't going to be nearly as easy this time. Like the first one was easy.

    2. Thank God for Hamilton. He kept it remotely close.

    ---------------
    Wow,
    I'm watching some of this now. The interior defense looks worse the second time around than the first time. Easy runners into the lane without being contested. The body language on the Indy players getting inside. They are totally confident and assertive. We put no fear into them whatsoever.

    Watch the Pistons - tenative with their interior offense. Not taking shots within five feet strong but weak. WOW. I'm watching the third period right now. This is amazingly sad.

    Mirror opposites on each side of the floor.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    You Panic easily, dont you......


    1. Who says you can't change your lineup. Mr. non-versatile Rick Carlisle change his starting lineup and Croshere was simply awesome. He forced Ben out of the paint and that set the tempo for the game. We simply didn't make the lane a painful place to be. We didn't contest shots. We allowed Indy to take 5-7 footers through penetration with little or no resistance. Usually the defenders just turned hoping for a board. This wasn't the defense that got us the 2-1 lead. In short it was disheartening to see. Indiana learned tonight that there were rewards to be earned getting the ball inside. We taught them that lesson with our soft interior defense.
    Yeah, Carlisle adjusted. I'm happy for him. It was frustrating, but i wouldnt call it disheartining. Its only 2-2, dont get down.

    I'll agree that was the worst D we've played all playoffs. Simply throw a zone at indiana, Croshere isnt going to take it inside.

    2. I never thought I'd say this but that game was one of the worst I've seen from Ben defensively in terms of contesting shots. He got tons of boards but his defense wasn't close to Ben's standards. He just allowed Crosier to jack up those treys.
    I'll agree there. But Ben isnt used to guarding Croshere. Furthermore, he SHOULDNT be guarding Croshere, who does nothing on offense except stand on the 3-point line. Put Prince on him and switch Ben on Artest.

    3. Artest is the only one that can defend himself - we learned that tonight and it was something we suspected when the series began. Prince was a joke on Artest tonight. Williamson - a bigger joke. Who do we match up on this guy?
    SOrry, but the bigger joke is you making a mountain out of a molehill. Prince played GREAT D on Artest in games 1-3. But Ronnie is an all-star, hes going to have a good game EVENTUALLY. Stop being so dramatic, Artest took many of the SAME bad shots he took the first three games, the ball just happened to go in this time. He's a great player, it happens. But hes still not getting great looks.

    4. Question - how does Reggie remain so open?
    The Pistons did a great job of shadowing him games 1-3, but again, they just didnt show defensively last night. I'll add that two of reggie's baskets were just heaves that happened to go in, but hes a great shooter and occasionally he'll have games like this.

    5. Another question - We're down big (16 pts) in the second half and we go out of a time out and two straight possessions post up Ben. Come on.
    ........as opposed to doing what we had been doing the rest of the game, and getting shelled? The more Ben shoots the better he plays. Its like an energy boost for him, and the ball DOES occasionally go in, which you would know if youre a pistons fan.

    6. He played only a handful of minutes but Campbell was pretty darned effective when he was out there. And he was one of the few that really contested interior shots. Why didn't he see more time. We needed a physical presence underneath all night long. We finally found one and used him for about four minutes. Mmmmm.
    I'll agree, Elden SHOULD see more time, he's a matchup problem for Indiana. But lets get real, he wasnt going to really change the game. He needs help.

    7. O'Neal his hurt. Tinsley is hurt. Post up on them. Well Rasheed did that much. But he didn't look to take it inside, just use that fade jumper.
    Tinsley wasnt in most of the game, he was busy fouling out of it. As for JO, i'll comment on his injury after game 5. Last night he looked perfectly fine to me.

    8. Okur - be stronger with your shots inside. Those were some really weak shots. Heck, everyone be assertive with your shots! Wd just din't see that.
    Agreed. Memo has been a complete PANSY all playoffs. I now see why LB dislikes him. He's soft as charmin tissue going to the basket.

    9. We had it down to 5 late in the first half. Billups takes a three and misses. Before the half is over it's 10. I knew right then this game was in dire straits.
    .....and Billups also scored 9 points in 2 minutes later in the game. Whats your point? I'm HAPPY when he decides to shoot more.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Kstat,

    I thinked you missed Larry Browns press conference. He does not give the green light to Billups to Jack up 3's and he even commented on how it killed them towards the end of the first half.

    Larry also complained about the 9 pts he scored as "fools gold" because they weren't in the flow of the offense!

    I don't think Larry wants Billups to go outside the scheme at all and I think its messing with Billups to our benefit.

    Water

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.


    I'll agree that was the worst D we've played all playoffs. Simply throw a zone at indiana, Croshere isnt going to take it inside.
    Kstat, at times you come up honest and with knowledge, at times you read like the worst homer since Homer.

    Reading what you wrote is like reading that every Pacer out there had a lucky day and it was all an abberation. I guess that's how we got to 61 wins and the ECF as well.

    As for Cro not taking it in, I didn't find the dunk ON BEN in the 4th quarter of game 3, well I found it but could not "cut" it out, so instead I post you a small clip from game 4..

    Where of course Cro does not dunk the ball in the 2nd minute of the game, the second rasheed stepped away to cover Reggie, Ben watched Jermaine and Cro scored.

    Wishes are not often facts, Cro can and will go inside if not watched, no matter how you switch defenders, the offense will stretch the defense to a point where it gets hard to play a Piston kind of game.

    [video width=400 height=350:9ea277c130]http://www.pacersdigest.com/cro.wmv[/video]
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    haha lmao

    kstat, yer taking a beating here. First from the post game confernce by Larry Brown and then the video replay of the defensive breakdown.

    Chauncey's points are "fools gold"...

    If Detroit is gonna win another game Billups needs to be able to play his game, at least for a 4th quarter.

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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.


    I'll agree that was the worst D we've played all playoffs. Simply throw a zone at indiana, Croshere isnt going to take it inside.
    Kstat, at times you come up honest and with knowledge, at times you read like the worst homer since Homer.

    Reading what you wrote is like reading that every Pacer out there had a lucky day and it was all an abberation. I guess that's how we got to 61 wins and the ECF as well.

    As for Cro not taking it in, I didn't find the dunk ON BEN in the 4th quarter of game 3, well I found it but could not "cut" it out, so instead I post you a small clip from game 4..

    Where of course Cro does not dunk the ball in the 2nd minute of the game, the second rasheed stepped away to cover Reggie, Ben watched Jermaine and Cro scored.

    Wishes are not often facts, Cro can and will go inside if not watched, no matter how you switch defenders, the offense will stretch the defense to a point where it gets hard to play a Piston kind of game.

    [video width=400 height=350:48389d225e]http://www.pacersdigest.com/cro.wmv[/video]
    Able, sometimes you simply hear what you want to hear. I said the Pacers played great.

    Croshere is a 3-point shooter. Once in a blue moon he'll get someone in the air or going one way and he'll drive. But that is most definately NOT his strength. Put Prince, corliss or even Rip Hamilton on him, doesnt matter to me. He's not going to beat us going to the basket. %90 of the time he shoots threes. He reminds me of cliff robinson in that reguard. You can guard him with a much smaller player and get away with it.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  24. #24
    DTropps
    Guest

    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Kstat,
    A few things...
    1. Those posts were my fire belly just 40 minutes after getting home from the game comments. I try to keep those from the "fan's perspective" when I make them. To give people what I felt while watching the game. They really aren't supposed to be broke down comments - yet. Later I go into the breaking down of points.

    2. Artest - First of all in game #1 Prince is getting a ton of credit for his defense that wasn't just him. In game #1 we incorporated a rotation of Prince, Ben and Williamson. I think the rotation of those people really confused Artest. In future games I think Prince was outstanding. I even mentioned I thought he was our MVP in game #2 BEFORE THE BLOCK for his defense on Artest, but part of that was Artest mentally taking himself out of his game. He did the same in game #3. He mentally didn't play a solid game resulting in physical disasters. It was clear early in game #4 that the Prince vs. Artest matchup we saw in the regular season was going to be issues. Artest mentally showed up and lit him and Williamson up. That's where my reference came from. When Artest mentally comes in with a healthy mindset there is really not much we can do in terms of physically matching up with him. Wallace is our best individual option, but at the risk of him collecting fouls.

    3. I keep hearing how Ben has improve offensively. He's had a game here or two but he isn't a player you effectively go to in a stagnant post up style. Now if he's slashing to the hoop - get it to him. He's tons effective that way. But to feed him with his back to the basket, dribble, dribble and then maybe turn he'll turn the ball over, take a bad shot or get it blocked a ton more than he will score or get a foul.
    I agree with your point about getting Ben more active. Actually, I'll take that farther. If he scores two of those in a row the entire team gets pumped up. We've seen it before. But down 16 after a time out isn't the time to be trying that. Maybe down 6 when your team is in a funk early in the third to prevent that 10-0 run may be a better time. That way if he missed one or two the damage is only an 8 point deficit probably. Not an 18-point one with time ticking away. Ben's offense is pretty much meaningless now. Yeah he had a great game against the Nets but that was an aberration. He had those aberations in past years as well.

    In short, get Ben the ball with movement - not in an Adrian Dantley-esq post play. That simply doesn't work.

  25. #25
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well, cant deny it......we got our butts handed to us last night.

    Kstat, I dont know if you saw the 2000 finals, but driving is def. one of Crosheres strengths. He isnt afraid to take it to the rack hard, and he can usually finish. I think one thing that really opens up his came though is him hitting his jumpshots, mostly 3's as you said. Cause then you have to honor his shot, and he can pump or just beat you off of the dribble and go to the hole.
    Thats my point-nearly EVERY time Croshere goes to the hoop, its because he gets his man in the air with a pump fake. If you dont go for his pump fakes, you eliminate the possibiliy of him going to the basket. He isnt mobile enough by himself to beat people off the dribble, he needs his man to get caught off-balance. I've yet to see him try to beat ANYONE off the dribble this series.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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