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Thread: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

  1. #26
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Goes back to what I thought last summer - the Pacers won't trade JO until the season has truly been lost and his trade value is as low as it's ever been.

    Good thing Bird and Walsh aren't in the stock market. Lately they seem to have mastered the "Buy high, sell low" principle.

    I still think you might manage a .500 record this season but you're a team that has big salary cap problems and few tradable assets while being well below league average in talent. IMO this summer was the time to blow it up and start over by trading the one guy you might get some real value for.

    Based on what's going on, you may not even get value for him now.

    Someone mentioned injuries - the reason JO's getting hurt is his body can't handle a lot of pounding in the post - and the last 5 years he's been pounded on in the post. Unfortunately his game and what his body can handle don't match. That's why what's happening is the wear-and-tear you get from a 34-year-old, not one major injury that kills some part of your body.

    Best thing for JO would be if he could take some kind of one-year sabbatical from the game and let his body really heal - he might coax another couple of good years out that way. But pro sports doesn't work that way.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  2. #27

    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Most on here have probably seen more of the initial games than
    I. So, I haven't seen J.O. for extended mins at this point.
    But if he's still hurting physically, what's he doing on the court ?
    Sit his *** out until he's totally healthy !

    As far as I'm concerned, THE goal for this franchise right now with
    respect to J.O. is to maximize his ability to show enough this year
    to allow them to maximize his eventual trade value.

    The Pacers are not going to compete for an NBA title again w/ J.O.
    So, despite Bird's fixation w/ making the playoffs, this year doesn't
    really matter in the long run. What matters is transitioning optimally
    to the next phase of franchise history and preparing/trying to assemble
    the pieces to potentially compete for a title down the road.

    Just my take.

  3. #28
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Is it time to bring out the tank already????? I thought maybe waiting till mid-season
    would be a reasonable time frame.
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    It's definitely not time to bring out the tank. Like I said before, if we can get something just something that can work for us now in exchange for Jermaine and possibly another player, we should pull that trigger now. That way we still have plenty of time to gel and work out the kinks, and possibly make a winning run after the All-Star break. If we keep losing Jermaine is going to become more and more unhappy, and by the All-Star break we'll only have a couple of weeks to find a deal for him.

    I'd rather start the work now and try to find something and at the worst have some months to spare, instead of waiting and standing pat like we always do and deciding to rush something with 2 weeks to spare. Do it now and we can probably still make this a good season.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    On a side note, it will be interesting to see how long the "high school to NBA" players can stretch out their careers. Does starting the 82 game grind at a younger age mean that the career nosedive hits at 30?

    1995: Garnett

    1996: Kobe, JO

    1997: McGrady

    1998: Harrington, Rashard Lewis

    1999: Bender :P

    2000: Darius Miles, Deshawn Stevenson

    2001: Brown, Chandler, Curry, Diop

    2002: Stoudamire

    Taking a look at the list of the early college-skippers, you could argue that JO, McGrady, Bender, Miles, Brown & Stoudamire have all had injury-hit careers to date. Clearly the sample size is too small at this stage to conclude anything. A study on the impact of the NBA physicality on immature bodies & minds would be interesting reading though.

    BTW, I am certainly not advocating that these guys should have gone to college. Just saying that maybe we can't expect the likes of JO to have much success past age 30.

  6. #31
    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    LOL. . why would we trade Jermaine O'neal. We'd have no one to guard the post
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

  7. #32

    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    TRich-

    How soon they started logging big minutes is probably the key in
    most cases. J.O. didn't really start playing full time until he was
    23. On the opposite end of the spectrum, KG has played big mins
    almost from day one (about 35,000 minutes vs J.O.'s 21,000 while
    being only 2 yrs older).

    Of course, in their case, KG is blessed with a better, more balanced
    physique for the game and hasn't been forced to bump and grind in
    the post the last 3-4 years.

  8. #33

    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    To me, JO just looks like he would rather be somewhere else. Plus, his health is always a factor. I guess it's a tad bit interesting to see JO averaging 13 and 8 while shooting less than 40% from the field in 29 minutes while Bynum is averaging 10 and 10 while shooting 58% from the field in 24minutes.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by LTD View Post
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    To me, JO just looks like he would rather be somewhere else. Plus, his health is always a factor. I guess it's a tad bit interesting to see JO averaging 13 and 8 while shooting less than 40% from the field in 29 minutes while Bynum is averaging 10 and 10 while shooting 58% from the field in 24minutes.
    Don't rub it in.....
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    I think he may want to be somewhere else as well. At least he hasn't come out in public and said that..... yet.

    Hoping it's just the conditioning and getting over the injury though.

    I think tonight at Wiz will be a good test to see what JO can do tonight

  11. #36

    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    JO is about in the same place in his career as Ray Allen.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    I think tonight at Wiz will be a good test to see what JO can do tonight
    Why do you say that?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Why do you say that?
    A few reasons. His 1st few games back, he was limited in time on the floor, what he could do coming off the knee, and getting back into game shape.

    It seemed like in the Bobcats and Nuggets games, he was just playing and letting everyone else get theirs. We should've won both games, and I didn't think he got aggressive until it was panic mode... which is not when he's at his best.

    In the Boston game, I don't think he ever got comfy b/c he was in foul trouble early, and had to worry about that throughout the 1st half, so he couldn't get in a groove or get a feel early. That and I feel KG is just better then him.

    As for the Wiz game, there frontcourt isn't the best so JO should be able to do his thing. The Wiz like to run and drive so we'll see where JO is defensively b/c Arenas, Butler, Daniels, etc... will drive down the lane. And finally it's a team we've beat already this year without JO so the Wiz will focus on guys like Granger and Dun Dun more b/c of what they did against them in the 1st game.

    So I feel JO should have everything opportunity to succeed tonight. IMO

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    LOL. . why would we trade Jermaine O'neal. We'd have no one to guard the post
    Well, we wouldn't exactly be trading him for air. We'd actually get something in return. Not trading him because it will leave us without someone to guard the post isn't going to help much either. He can guard the post all he wants, but his duties involve far more than just guarding the post. If guarding the post is all that's expected from Jermaine, then I'm sure we can easily make a deal for somebody that can guard the post and do nothing else.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    A few reasons. His 1st few games back, he was limited in time on the floor, what he could do coming off the knee, and getting back into game shape.

    It seemed like in the Bobcats and Nuggets games, he was just playing and letting everyone else get theirs. We should've won both games, and I didn't think he got aggressive until it was panic mode... which is not when he's at his best.

    In the Boston game, I don't think he ever got comfy b/c he was in foul trouble early, and had to worry about that throughout the 1st half, so he couldn't get in a groove or get a feel early. That and I feel KG is just better then him.

    As for the Wiz game, there frontcourt isn't the best so JO should be able to do his thing. The Wiz like to run and drive so we'll see where JO is defensively b/c Arenas, Butler, Daniels, etc... will drive down the lane. And finally it's a team we've beat already this year without JO so the Wiz will focus on guys like Granger and Dun Dun more b/c of what they did against them in the 1st game.

    So I feel JO should have everything opportunity to succeed tonight. IMO
    I agree. I was very impressed with his KG defense, that was outstanding work. He's looking better I think and did run into a serious issue with fouls and a tough defensive assignment (do they get tougher?).

    Of course another familiar problem showed up last night, not enough other options. KG was struggling against JO, Ray was doing nothing, yet the Celtics were going along fine. Now picture the Pacers with JO AND Granger struggling. There hasn't been much behind them so far. Dun for a bit, a little Diogu perhaps.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    As for the Wiz game, there frontcourt isn't the best so JO should be able to do his thing. The Wiz like to run and drive so we'll see where JO is defensively b/c Arenas, Butler, Daniels, etc... will drive down the lane. And finally it's a team we've beat already this year without JO so the Wiz will focus on guys like Granger and Dun Dun more b/c of what they did against them in the 1st game.

    So I feel JO should have everything opportunity to succeed tonight. IMO
    I will defer to rexnom on this....but I was always under the impression that Brendan Haywood ( who may not be the brightest bulb on the team ) is a decent ( to solid ) Big Man defender. Unless JONeal is getting some of "his hops" back and able to outplay Haywood with whatever footspeed he has left, I just don't see how good he will do. On the defensive end, I really hope that JONeal can defend the lane pretty well....but again...I'm not keeping my hopes up.

    Overall, I agree with you that this game may give us an idea about whether we should be worried about JONeal's game....or whether most of us threw him under the bus too early.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I will defer to rexnom on this....
    Never do that. Ever. About anyting. Anywhere. Any time. Don't.
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I will defer to rexnom on this....
    i think you mean robertmto. rexnom lives in dc and has a remarkably unhealthy attraction to hibatchi (but who among us hasn't had at least one of those?) and he may live in the dc metro area but he's a pacer fan.
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Did anybody else see the look on JO's face tonight as we were losing the game against the Wizards? He was just shaking his head and looked disgusted. After reading about him "welcoming" a trade, it might be safe to say he is playing his way out of Indiana. Although to be fair, I didn't see anybody on the bench smiling tonight except for David Harrison for some reason.
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by DanGrangerPwrRanger View Post
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    I didn't see anybody on the bench smiling tonight except for David Harrison for some reason.
    The same reason Forrest Gump or Slingblade smiles.
    .

    .

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    The same reason Forrest Gump or Slingblade smiles.
    Strangely, both of those guys are smart enough to not foul out all the time.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    The same reason Forrest Gump or Slingblade smiles.
    Fess up, did Redd secretly feed you that awesome line? Brilliant.


    On JO, I was pretty happy with his game vs WSH, I think he's coming along. On defense he was a monster, a pretty lonely monster. That play where he tried to get the charge, got knocked down, and then got back up to make a shot block after the ball had bounced around inside was solid and showed that there is some lift there (or getting there). On offense he made a sweet multi-step post move that ended with an up and under for a score.

    The look on his face was "I can't believe this is the team Larry put around me". I think JO should get credit for riding this mess out because right now LA must look really good to him. You think Bynum would have had the Pacers winning vs WSH? Please.

    You only trade JO as part of a process to clean out this mix totally and build off Granger, Ike and Shawne, and that doesn't mean featuring them either, just keeping them as you get other stars and bench guys. It would mean moving Dun, Troy and Tins. Have you seen their deals vs their output? Why move JO when the rest can't be moved?

  23. #48

    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    Most on here have probably seen more of the initial games than
    I. So, I haven't seen J.O. for extended mins at this point.
    But if he's still hurting physically, what's he doing on the court ?
    Sit his *** out until he's totally healthy !

    As far as I'm concerned, THE goal for this franchise right now with
    respect to J.O. is to maximize his ability to show enough this year
    to allow them to maximize his eventual trade value.

    The Pacers are not going to compete for an NBA title again w/ J.O.
    So, despite Bird's fixation w/ making the playoffs, this year doesn't
    really matter in the long run. What matters is transitioning optimally
    to the next phase of franchise history and preparing/trying to assemble
    the pieces to potentially compete for a title down the road.

    Just my take.
    This, I agree with. JO should be on the bench til he's "very" healthy. I liken this to holding out Bob Sanders last year vs. having him keep coming back early and losing him again. Having him at full strength for the playoffs was HUGE last year for the Colts. Same with Harrison this year.

    I'm also under the opinion that his injury issues were the main reason he didn't get traded this off season. Damaged goods! All the more reason to get him healthy and increase his trade value.

    Water

  24. #49

    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Alright, here's my realistic 2-cents worth...

    No, JO doesn't look his expected normal self. Key word here is expected. We've been very fortunate to have a 20/10 player on this team for going on 8 yrs now. Okay, so he's had some serious injury problems the last 3 yrs. What I like about JO is the fact that he has tried to implement other facets of his game to provide the team with those aspects they need. For example, when the team needed improved interior defense, he became a shot blocker. When the team needed a strong interior physical presence, he learned how and has shown the willingness to take charges. When the team started the season wanting to run a more uptempo offense and needed a passer from the interior to make their inside-outside game more effective, guess who became the team's second ranked leader in assists? That's right! JO!! I pointed some of this out in PD's "sister" Pacers' message board, IndyStar.com under my alter ego there, "INdyBoy39" (See the thread, "Bynum...is Better than JO...Right Now" for details).

    The other side of this issue is the fact that JO is hurting right now. JOB reiterated in yesterday's pre-game interview that JO's (left) leg (calf) has some swelling that the medical staff hasn't been able to get under control. (This was first reported on the "Jim O'Brien Show" on Monday 11/19/07. The Pacers/Hornets post-game report on Pacers.com, however, is reporting that it's JO's left knee that's bothering him. Whichever is accurate, it's clear the man is injured and that injury is affecting his game.) Still, I give him credit where it's due. He's trying to bring other parts of his game to the hardwood for the betterment of his team.

    I don't think he's being selfish at all as some claim in wanting the ball in his hands to "be" the primary scoring option. What I do believe is that he wants to get back to that 20/10 form we all have come to expect of him so that he can help his team more on the offensive end as he has helped them on the defensive end. Sitting him out a few games and having his knee/leg checked to determine the cause of the swelling and getting it treated now will be the best thing for JO right now to help this team in the long-term. Once that problem is fully resolved, I think JO will come back and we'll see a better performance from him out there.

    And that, my friends, is my realistic 2-cents worth.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 11-22-2007 at 12:04 PM.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    LOL. . why would we trade Jermaine O'neal. We'd have no one to guard the post
    You cannot gaurd the post while in street clothes watching the game. Nor can you gaurd the post when you cannot elevate.

    He is not gaurding the post now.
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