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Thread: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

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    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
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    Default A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Right now might be the right time to look into a potential J.O. deal. Hear me out though.

    I don't know if he's just not healthy, or if he's not healthy/not happy with his role on the team. He looks like he plays his role right sometimes, but he doesn't look like he is a big believer in the role he plays. We need believers. You can't turn a 29 year old 20-10 kind of guy that's never averaged more than 2.6 apg, into a guy that plays a Vlade Divac like role. It's just not working.

    He's not necessarily bogging down the offense all the time, but sometimes is too much right now. I know we don't expect a championship right now, but the expectations set by our own coach is the playoffs. Diogu has shown a lot in his time this season and has shown he's taken his game to another level. Maybe Diogu can be put in J.O.'s role (if we can ever get him healthy).

    The reason why I say now might be the time is because making a deal sooner than later gives the team a chance to learn each other in hopes of making a strong run after the All-Star break. Instead of doing what we did last season and making the deal mid-season which might have killed our playoff run.

    I'm going to predict that Larry Bird is probably already looking at what needs to happen to improve this team. We've improved this teams chemistry, but what we still don't have is a whole lot of mental toughness. And we lack leadership. We need a player that can take over the game in a major way, but not necessarily an All-Star. I could be describing Ben Gordon (?)

    Some might remember the thread I made like this about Al Harrington last season a number of days before the big trade: http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-...ad.php?t=27743

    I'm not bothering with the trade checker this time because I think this is a more difficult trade than the Al Harrington deal. But I think it's time. Don't wait for a potential opt-out. Don't wait for Jermaine to completely shut down (because it's almost looking like that might happen). Address our needs now. Unlike in the off-season, we have some tradeable players that can be packaged with Jermaine to actually help us. I haven't been for trading Jermaine in the past, but right now I just think it's do or die... And I do mean right now.


    Be easy on me....

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Well, from what I have seen so far. JO's just as effective defensively and he can still rebound when he gets the position, but JO's body is failing him. His lift is gone on his jumper and that turn around move that was so money during his younger days is gone.

    Its sad especially for people like me who really were able to start following the Pacers as JO came into his own, but this is not the JO we once knew. This isn't even the JO we knew last year when healthy.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    he is looking almost as washed out as the other O'Neal...

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Jermaine could still be useful. His main problem is that he still sees himself as the teams "go to" guy. Its been many moons since Jermaine was the Pacers go to guy. Jim O'brien needs to sit down and have a heart to heart with O'Neal. Jermaines role on this team should be to play defense, defensive rebound, pass out of the double and get garbage baskets around the bucket. Not to take 15 to 20 foot fade away jump shots.

    Sad as it is Jermaines EGO will not let him accept that he's nothing better than the third, maybe second option in the offense.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Washed up at 29??? Another Bender flame out? Pacers are one sad team when it comes
    to their bigmen. Historically speaking.
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSMASH View Post
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    Sad as it is Jermaines EGO will not let him accept that he's nothing better than the third, maybe second option in the offense.
    Thread title: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal.
    You Got The Tony!!!!!!

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Like I said in the post-game thread, if this team keeps losing, JO will ask for a trade by mid-December. I think I can say that with confidence.

    My only concern is with his trade value. With the way his season has gone so far, the Pacers won't receive very good offers for him. I'm afraid that Larry/Donnie will wait it out until the offers get better, pissing JO off and forcing him to go public with it.

    But I think it needs to happen. It's time. It's sad because I've enjoyed JO's time here, from when he was just a bench player from Portland's bench to his All-Star years. I think it's just time for this team to move on. There's no sense in fooling ourselves any longer.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    I don't mean to be cruel, but he has looked old, tired and like someone who should have retired last season.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    I'm all for a J.O. deal pretty much anytime. I was all for it sveral
    months ago.

    But that aside, how the hell can a guy who's only played about
    21,000 minutes in his career be washed up physically ? J.O's
    basically played about 6 seasons of NBA ball and he's worn out ?

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    I'm all for a J.O. deal pretty much anytime. I was all for it sveral
    months ago.

    But that aside, how the hell can a guy who's only played about
    21,000 minutes in his career be washed up physically ? J.O's
    basically played about 6 seasons of NBA ball and he's worn out ?
    he just looks that way - I don't know if its lack of inspiration/desire or what have you...but he just doesn't look like his old self. I would be really surprised if he could pull off a 25+ point game in the coming weeks...

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    I'm giving him until December to judge - I'm not going to throw a guy that has been so huge for this team under a bus after he's played six games.

    Right now I'm not happy about the situation but I'm going to give him time.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    I'm all for a J.O. deal pretty much anytime. I was all for it sveral
    months ago.

    But that aside, how the hell can a guy who's only played about
    21,000 minutes in his career be washed up physically ? J.O's
    basically played about 6 seasons of NBA ball and he's worn out ?
    I think the injuries have just piled up over the years and it's finally taking its toll. I mean, think of all the injuries that have happened to him over the years. His ankles, knees, and shoulders have really taken a beating, especially during the Carlisle years. He was the focus of the offense and the focus of opposing defenses night in and night out. After banging in the post for so long, I think his body is giving out on him.

    Someone compared him to Chris Webber and I think they're right. He can still be an effective player, but he's nowhere near the player he used to be.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    I will not buy into J.O. being finished. I think the latest injury was harder on him the we know. At 29 I still expect him to recover and get back to form within the next 10 games just have a little patience. If he doesn't recover then forget about trading him, we won't get anything back. You can also forget about him opting out if he doesn't return to all star form, this is something we don't need to worry about. I think our only chance is to wait until J.O. returns to all star form, and hope it's soon enough to increase his value before the trading deadline.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    I gonna go with him not being the main focal point of the offense every time down the floor as the reason his scoring average has dropped this season. His time has been limited , only six games in, Granger has really stepped up & Dunleavy started the season off pretty hot. He did just face KG and foul trouble. He'll round out as the season goes on and so will this team.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Just 7 months ago Jermaine was having the best season of his career -- on a bad knee. Going into the pre-season, Jermaine said his knee was feeling 100% better and he was in the best condition that he's been in in several seasons. How do you go from that to what we're seeing now? Simple, he's not happy.

    He wanted to be traded. I don't care what he told the media, he wanted to be traded. In fact I bet he was certain that he would be traded and when it didn't happen, he had to force himself to like it here again. Well once you're mentally gone, you can't force yourself to want to be somewhere because in one way or another it's going to show that you don't want to be there.

    I remember watching a show on NBA Tv during our 3-0 start (the one that Rick Carlisle is on), and the guy that was on the show with Rick (I forget his name) mentioned that Jermaine obviously isn't happy on this team. It was a funny mention because everything else was completely positive. It was such a random mention that it almost seemed like it was inside information that Rick Carlisle got from the Pacers that he told the other guy on the show. Then the other guy mentioned it because Rick probably couldn't or didn't want to. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but I hope somebody else saw the show that day.

    We built this team around a post presence. We brought in shooters fully expecting Jermaine to be our lead guy and our #1 offensive threat. That's not the case anymore. Our leading scorer is Danny Granger. As good as Danny has been, I don't see that he's ready to carry the load like he is and lead us to being a winning team without some real help. We at the very least need Ike right now. Losing him seems like it's hurting us more than anything else because of the way this team is built.

    If we continue to rely on this version of Jermaine to be the centerpiece of our offense, we're seriously in trouble. This team needs a low post threat or 2 [Ike] to make everything else work. If we're not going to have that, then we need to alter the makeup of this team to make the team work the way it's supposed to. This is a hard thing to do during a season, but I think it badly needs to be done.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    I think JO is still a great player, but after tonight. Maybe a trade would be best, b/c it sure seemed that they never wanted to feed JO the ball unless it was a last resort.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Legler said that.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    This I might buy into, or a combination of J.O. not being 100%, and not being happy. To say he's not the player he was just doesn't sound rational when he was just that player all of last season, and this preseason. J.O. still took more shots then any other Pacer tonight. If he is playing this way because of the offense I hope he can adjust to taking advantage of what all the outside shooting opens up for him inside. If his offense has dropped off because he's unhappy due to not being traded then he isn't helping his trade value any.


    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    Just 7 months ago Jermaine was having the best season of his career -- on a bad knee. Going into the pre-season, Jermaine said his knee was feeling 100% better and he was in the best condition that he's been in in several seasons. How do you go from that to what we're seeing now? Simple, he's not happy.

    He wanted to be traded. I don't care what he told the media, he wanted to be traded. In fact I bet he was certain that he would be traded and when it didn't happen, he had to force himself to like it here again. Well once you're mentally gone, you can't force yourself to want to be somewhere because in one way or another it's going to show that you don't want to be there.
    We built this team around a post presence. We brought in shooters fully expecting Jermaine to be our lead guy and our #1 offensive threat. That's not the case anymore. Our leading scorer is Danny Granger. As good as Danny has been, I don't see that he's ready to carry the load like he is and lead us to being a winning team without some real help. We at the very least need Ike right now. Losing him seems like it's hurting us more than anything else because of the way this team is built.
    If we continue to rely on this version of Jermaine to be the centerpiece of our offense, we're seriously in trouble. This team needs a low post threat or 2 [Ike] to make everything else work. If we're not going to have that, then we need to alter the makeup of this team to make the team work the way it's supposed to. This is a hard thing to do during a season, but I think it badly needs to be done.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    As much as I've loved JO as a Pacer over the last several years, I think I am finally ready to see him go. He's still a force, takes charges alot, some assists and blocks, but his shot isn't consistant. He's a double double kinda guy, but he isn't the player to goto when you're down 10 with 2 to go and expect him to save the game. He could be a duncanesque type of player but, but Duncan is more savvy than JO is, and he has playmakers around him. JO used to be 'explosive' and I don't see that much from him these days. He didn't want to rebuild with the Pacers, and let's face it, we're kinda rebuilding, or at least retooling.

    If we trade him can we trade Tinsley too? (but then who do we get to run the point??) ugh
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan032589 View Post
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    it sure seemed that they never wanted to feed JO the ball unless it was a last resort.
    I know the feeling.
    .

    .

    .

    .


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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Did we have to demand both Odom and Bynum? I know in that package, they were unwilling to part ways with Bynum but were they as unwilling in a deal just centered around Bynum? If not, then damn that we didn't pull that off before the start of the season because LA probably doesn't care for JO as much, and the most they'd be willing to dish out is something centered around VladRad and Kwame...

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    If his offense has dropped off because he's unhappy due to not being traded then he isn't helping his trade value any.
    I don't think he's intentionally going out there trying to get traded. If you're not happy somewhere it's a mental block to overcome. He might want to be that 20-10 guy right now, but mentally he probably just can't bring himself to be motivated enough to get it done. It's one thing to tell yourself to get over it, it's another thing to actually get over it. I strongly believe this is what he's going through. We all thought the same thing about Jamaal under Rick Carlisle though he never said it. But guess what, as soon as Rick was gone we all heard how unhappy Jamaal was under him.

    Since J'OB isn't going anywhere anytime soon and Kobe Bryant won't be coming here, we should probably do what we can with Jermaine to land us a piece or some pieces that actually work. Also we shouldn't feel obligated to trade him to a contender. He has the option of opting out, so wherever he goes he doesn't have to stay anyway. Sure we should at least try to put him on a good team, but most of the good teams don't really need him.

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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    I'm sick of using the "injury excuse" any more for players like JONeal, Marquis and ( a little less frequently now ) with Tinsley when it comes to how this team performs. It's really bad when our whole team's success pretty much hinges on whether any of these players are injured or not.

    I know that injuries to teams is a common thing...it's unavoidable. But when we have as many injuries as we have had in the last 3 seasons....and most notably to key players....then it just gets tiring. As many have pointed out...this team is simply built bad. I agree with this....but not as much how well they play...but more that we have assembled talented players that are simply too injury prone to be considered dependable.

    If JONeal is healthy, then we can ....if Marquis is playing, then .....if Tinsley is playing in control and healthy, then . There are too many "ifs" for this team to properly succeed. I am frustrated and probably need to calm down a little.....but right now, I would much rather trade JONeal and Tinsley for $.75 on the dollar and get back decent players that at least fits our needs but can play 75+ games at 100% then go through another season hoping that JONeal can get healthy and can therefore contribute. I really think that if we can eliminate any worries associated with "if JONeal / Tinsley / Marquis is going to be healthy", then we can focus on fixing the other problems this team has. We simply have too many variables for this team to succeed.


    Okay....my rant is done....I have to calm down a little.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-14-2007 at 02:10 AM.
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    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    There's another thread asking if we thought JO might be dogging it. Initially, I thought no. But I think JO views his situation much like KG's situation was in Minny. I think to see KG as happy as he is in Boston was tough for JO. He didn't look like he really cared to be out there last night IMHO. I don't think he's washed up, but I think it's hard to do something for a place when your heart isn't there.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: A realistic discussion about Jermaine O'Neal

    Multiple good points going on here. I can't say I've come to a definitive assessment of the situation myself. Still in the new coach, new system, recovery from injury window for maybe 5-8 more games.

    However, I can certainly say that what I'm seeing from JO and Tins has me leaning in the direction of "is it even worth it to consider holding out/having this conversation?" as far as our franchise is concerned?

    We've been going on with these guys for years and we haven't really seen more than one year of outstanding play from both (2004) that coincided with any success for the team. How long will Walsh/Bird can Walsh/Bird hold out?

    Currently, they seem to be regressing as the season progresses and the team with them. Neither as of now is displaying the attitude/toughness to transition to this brand of ball and lead others in doing so. Should we be surprised? Honestly, they look like they're suffering out there when they should still be in a honeymoon period w/ JOB.

    From my POV, they could still technically show me something in the near future, but unless that happens (and maybe even if it does), TPTB will have to admit that these guys have run their course here whatever the reasons for that may be. Did we wait too long to pull the trigger on a JO deal?

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