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Thread: Danny Granger could lead this team

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Danny Granger could lead this team

    A sub topic in another thread discussed who could become the leader of this team that struggles with having no leadership.

    Someone--I forget who--made the point that as long as JO is here, it is impossible for someone else to have that mantle. I pretty much agree with that.

    But if he were traded, I think Granger could do it.

    We don't see much of it now, because Danny's not the usurping type (which makes for a better leader, once he gets his opportunity). But I see Danny step up in games sometimes. I think he gets better in crunch time, unlike our other marquee players.

    I also think he's an excellent human being with the character desired to pull it off (In fairness to JO, he's a decent guy too, but Danny doesn't have the ego baggage like JO).

    If we were to trade JO--and the players in return aren't the leadership type--then I'll be interested to see how things go down. I could see Granger stepping up.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    George Karl who is often too honest with the media had some interesting things to say about Granger prior to the game Saturday night

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1088/SPORTS04



    Changing of the guard?

    Nuggets coach George Karl was asked by a Denver reporter what's different about the Pacers this season before Saturday's game.

    Karl said Danny Granger.

    "He's their No. 1 weapon," the Nuggets coach said. "They're giving him a lot of freedom, a lot of looks on the 3-point line. He's a 6-9 (shooting guard/small forward) that can really score when he gets some freedom."

    Granger, who has played behind Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson and Peja Stojakovic in his three-year career, is pictured on the Pacers media guide this season.

    Granger, who leads the Pacers in scoring at 18.7 points per game, was named Eastern Conference Player of the Week after the first week of the season.

    Granger has struggled shooting in the past five games, hitting 36 percent (24-of-66) in that span. He's also missed his past 13 3-point attempts.
    "A little bit," Karl said when asked if he's surprised by how much more of an offensive role Granger has taken on. "I thought he had a good year last year. I think he's made a big step personality-wise with Jimmy O'Brien as his coach. There's no question that he's talented. Can he be consistent, can he perform on a winning level as the 'man'? All those things have yet be determined."

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Granger has struggled shooting in the past five games, hitting 36 percent (24-of-66) in that span. He's also missed his past 13 3-point attempts.
    "
    Watching Danny Grangers game makes me wonder if he is afraid of contact around the basket. When your 6' 9-10" jacking up 3's for most of the game would kind of give you that impression don't-cha think?

    Danny has never really played with his back to the basket since he's been with the Pacers. He is however the most inconsistant shooter on the squad. His 3 years in the league has shown us nothing as fans to the contrary. Until Danny learns to play with more of a "pros" attitude instead of a "college kid's" attitude he is going to stay right where he is....wildly inconsistant.

    I do not believe that Danny Granger is a leader...I could be wrong, but his play reflects our record. Either he steps up or steps off and lets Shawne Williams into the limelight.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Danny as a leader? After he improves his inside game maybe. Jacking up three's isn't working well for him. Right now, I'd say Shawne Williams has shown me more in the little time he's been with this team than Danny has shown in 3 seasons. Not saying Shawne is a leader, but I strongly believe he's more talented and confident with his game and where he fits in the system he's playing in. If Shawne keeps showing that, and he becomes the defender J'OB says he is, Danny will make a valuable trade asset.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    My biggest fear about hiring JOB is that he turns Danny into Fatoine Part Deuce.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    My biggest fear about hiring JOB is that he turns Danny into Fatoine Part Deuce.
    If it's Fatoine under J'OB Part Deuce, I'll take it.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    I don't see a leader in him. I see a "lead by example" kind of guy in terms of conducts and approach to the game (do what coach asks, play the right way, etc.), but not a true leader of a team. I think if we were to get a starting PG in here who was a consistent player and a leader we would look amazingly better.

    I also don't believe Danny will long-term by our #1 option (right now he "kinda" is). I think that will be (a big IF he doesn't screw up) Shawne Williams in the next 1-2 years.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Am I the only one still perplexed by the level of expectations already assigned to Shawne Williams?

    I mean, I know he's really athletic with some clear talent, a few refined skills and that he won't be 22 for a few more months...but I also know he's never scored 20 points in an NBA game.

    I like the kid, too, but after all the Harrington and Bender hype that basically amounted to a bonafide nothing (throw in Jamaal too if you want), you'd think us Pacer folk would be weary of crowning new kings so prematurely.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Am I the only one still perplexed by the level of expectations already assigned to Shawne Williams?

    I mean, I know he's really athletic with some clear talent, a few refined skills and that he won't be 22 for a few more months...but I also know he's never scored 20 points in an NBA game.

    I like the kid, too, but after all the Harrington and Bender hype that basically amounted to a bonafide nothing (throw in Jamaal too if you want), you'd think us Pacer folk would be weary of crowning new kings so prematurely.
    True that he's never scored 20, but he's also never played more than 28 minutes in a game either. I'm not calling the guy a future All-Star (though it's not out of the question), but I think if he got the time he'd outplay Danny. They're two very different players. At this point I'm not buying the Scottie Pippen/Danny Granger comparison at all. I don't know who I see a resemblance to in Danny's game. But in Shawne's game, I see Rashard Lewis. The way their numbers line up are very similar too, of course Lewis was a better free-throw shooter at this stage than Shawne is (though Shawne doesn't have many attempts), and Shawne has a better three-point percentage at this stage than Lewis did. Otherwise, it's quite similar. If Shawne got Danny's minutes now, 15-17ppg would be easy for him to achieve and I mean very easy for him because of the way he plays.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Am I the only one still perplexed by the level of expectations already assigned to Shawne Williams?

    I mean, I know he's really athletic with some clear talent, a few refined skills and that he won't be 22 for a few more months...but I also know he's never scored 20 points in an NBA game.

    I like the kid, too, but after all the Harrington and Bender hype that basically amounted to a bonafide nothing (throw in Jamaal too if you want), you'd think us Pacer folk would be weary of crowning new kings so prematurely.
    Agreed.

    But he's the only realistic possibility we have of an upcoming, true offensive threat.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Agreed.

    But he's the only realistic possibility we have of an upcoming, true offensive threat.
    *coughshawnewilliamscough*

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    I like that Danny has such high trade value right now... while we also have shawne waiting in the wings. Im hoping Larry makes an impressive move around draft time.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    I think there are two issues here can Danny be a leader and can he as the teams best player be the leader.

    Armstrong was a leader last year. Jackson was a leader. That has to do with personality rather than talent. There is room for that even if JO is here. I haven't seen that from Danny.

    Then there is the issue of can Danny become the type of best player on a team who imposes his will on his teammates the way great players do. On that question I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. I don't think Danny is a player who is ever going to be the man on a good team. I think he's good just not that good.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    IMHO....we have alot of good players on this team but none that I would consider leaders on the floor or the lockerroom. The personalities of likely candidates outside of JONeal ( who has tried but just doesn't seem to be "The Man" that can lead us ) are too simply too passive.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Am I the only one still perplexed by the level of expectations already assigned to Shawne Williams?
    no
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    It's hard to make any judgments on Shawne, because 1/3 of the time he stands behind the arc and throws up threes, and he isn't a great 3-point shooter...

    He's enjoying a nice hot streak right now, but I can't imagine that's the limit of what Bird expected out of him when he drafted him.
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-12-2007 at 02:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    My biggest fear about hiring JOB is that he turns Danny into Fatoine Part Deuce.
    You're scared of Granger turning into a 3 time all-star? That's what he was under JOB. Antoine Walker during his prime was a very good player and the 2nd best player on JOB's Boston team that made the ECFs.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    I am obviously a huge Granger fan, but Williams appears to have even better natural gifts.

    First, he has a smoother jumpshot and can get it off more quickly. That much is obvious. Second, he is longer. As he develops and gets stronger, that will help him around the basket.

    The rest is subjective. I think the game has slowed down for Williams at a younger age. He seems to have better natural instincts....to the point he acts without thinking...LOL.

    I also think that once Williams matures and gets a little stronger, he will be more effective at rebounding the ball...not just due to his length. He seems to have quick instincts around the bucket to go with the length.

    But so much of this depends on how hard they work and how they go about developing themselves. It really could go either way. Granger has the level head. Not so sure about Shawne.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    in Shawne's game, I see Rashard Lewis. The way their numbers line up are very similar too, of course Lewis was a better free-throw shooter at this stage than Shawne is (though Shawne doesn't have many attempts), and Shawne has a better three-point percentage at this stage than Lewis did.
    I agree with this comparison to an extent. They're both tall SF's with great shooting strokes and a knack for scoring. I think that Shawne has a significantly bigger frame that Lewis though. Shawne's listed at 225 on the roster page, but he looks bigger than that to me. He's got the potential to be a better rebounder and defender than Lewis. He's been good when he's played this year, even though we're 0-3 in games with him. He'll start to see more minutes as long as he keeps it up.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    ...but I also know he's never scored 20 points in an NBA game.
    Basically I don't think you make your point with this statement.

    Pre-season games are NBA games too. In his last two pre-season games he scored 22 points against Chicago, and 26 against Minnesota.

    Now if you want to say he hasn't ever scored 20 points in a game that counted in the standings, that's different, but he has scored 19 in a game that counted in the standings. That was against New Jersey last year.

    I do agree that the expectations are high for him . . . but he has looked good.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Am I the only one still perplexed by the level of expectations already assigned to Shawne Williams?

    I mean, I know he's really athletic with some clear talent, a few refined skills and that he won't be 22 for a few more months...but I also know he's never scored 20 points in an NBA game.

    I like the kid, too, but after all the Harrington and Bender hype that basically amounted to a bonafide nothing (throw in Jamaal too if you want), you'd think us Pacer folk would be weary of crowning new kings so prematurely.
    I don't think anyone is crowning him a king, so much as saying that he has a nice package of skills, and has a bright future.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Pre-season games are NBA games too.
    Agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    I don't think anyone is crowning him a king, so much as saying that he has a nice package of skills, and has a bright future.
    Well, Hicks said he thinks Shawne will be our #1 option within two years.

    Not trying to pick on you, buddy, but that's what I meant be "crowning" the kid. And I've seen many other posts on here basically saying that we'd be fine if we traded JO because we have Shawne Williams.

    Like I said, I like the kid, too. He should be pretty good. And I know he's young, but I'm going to need to see some actual extended on-court production (which he hasn't shown in either the NBA or NCAA) before I even slot him into an NBA starting lineup.

    I just wonder where such lofty expectations come from is all. I guess it's every team is required to have an Andray Blatche, Amir Johnson, Robert Swift or Gerald Green. And I guess Shawne is ours to some people.

    No biggie...it's just confusing to me.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 11-13-2007 at 01:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Agree to disagree.



    Well, Hicks said he thinks Shawne will be our #1 option within two years.

    Not trying to pick on you, buddy, but that's what I meant be "crowning" the kid. And I've seen many other posts on here basically saying that we'd be fine if we traded JO because we have Shawne Williams.

    Like I said, I like the kid, too. He should be pretty good. And I know he's young, but I'm going to need to see some actual extended on-court production (which he hasn't shown in either the NBA or NCAA) before I even slot him into an NBA starting lineup.

    I just wonder where such lofty expectations come from is all. I guess it's every team is required to have an Andray Blatche, Amir Johnson, Robert Swift or Gerald Green. And I guess Shawne is ours to some people.

    No biggie...it's just confusing to me.
    I agree, and Im also shocked how many people are so willing to trade Granger as well. The guy is pretty damn talented on the court and probably most important to the Pacer brass, is that he's top notch off the court. He's making a gradual progression in his PPG and is a solid rebounder and defender.

    Shawne looks decent in limited minutes, but give him 35-40 minutes against starting level players and then we'll see how good he really is. Danny is already playing at that minute range, while usually 1 on 1 guarding a teams top perimiter scorer.
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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    The Granger Factor

    In our 6 wins, Granger has scored 20 or more in all but one....and in that one he had 19. All were above his season average.

    I think we are also seeing more consistency. He has scored in double figures every single game this year.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 11-25-2007 at 12:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger could lead this team

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    Danny as a leader? After he improves his inside game maybe. Jacking up three's isn't working well for him.
    I think Danny read what I said. I'm thinking he's out to prove himself and prove everybody wrong. He's been showing more testicular fortitude than I thought he was capable of showing. I still think Shawne has the higher ceiling because of all the natural talent he has, but Danny is bringing his game to a new level.

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