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Thread: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    I enjoyed this article and the booing last night was great.


    http://www.detnews.com/2004/pistons/...ons-167722.htm


    Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon


    By Jerry Green / The Detroit News


    AUBURN HILLS - They came with their thunder stix and their ear-splitting noise and their burning belief in the Pistons' destiny. They claimed it was the Bad Boys era redux and that the Pistons were aimed straight at another June confrontation with the Lakers.

    They imagined the old pictures of Isiah nuzzling Magic and figured this time it would be Big Ben jabbing elbows into Shaq.


    They came to their magnificent Palace in anticipation of the most important game their Detroit pro basketball franchise played since Bill Laimbeer and Isiah Thomas walked out against Michael Jordan in 1991.

    But this time the faithful walked out, their thunder stix drooping, before it was over. They booed, then abandoned their team.

    Oooops, something broke down on the way to the Pistons' dance into the NBA Finals. The engine conked out on the night the Pistons could have taken command of their Eastern Conference Finals series against the Pacers.

    It wasn't even close. It was destruction.

    And instead of being ahead 3-1, with just another victory needed to clinch the series and reach the Finals, the Pistons are in deep jeopardy. The series is equal at 2-2, but the Pacers have recaptured this mystical edge, the home court advantage. Two more games could be played back in Indiana, the first on Sunday.

    But more vital than this so-called home court edge is the Pacers' current coaching advantage. Rick Carlisle coached the gray-flannel suit off Larry Brown.

    Again.


    And when Friday night's key match ended with the Pacers' 83-68 victors, Brown admitted he had been had.

    "They came in better prepared," Brown said. "They were better coached.

    "We can't play any worse.

    "If I look at this game, I want to stick my head in the sand."

    The Pistons seemed headed to the Finals on the strength of energy and passion. Somehow it vanished in two days. Tayshaun Prince was blanked for the game - a zero in 32 minutes on the floor. Ben Wallace scored one point in 40 minutes.

    No surprise that Larry wanted to stick his head in the sand.

    Carlisle, meanwhile, made a surprise switch of centers work. He started Austin Croshere instead of Jeff Foster and the changed lineup became an immense factor.

    It was a gamble, Carlisle said, and he kept it a secret until informing his team just before the game. A touch of gamesmanship.

    There is the continued subplot in these conference finals.

    A year ago, Carlisle was coaching the Pistons. He came up against Brown in the second round of the playoffs. Brown was then coaching the Philadelphia 76ers. Carlisle's Pistons won the series and then lost to New Jersey in the Eastern Conference finals.

    Before this time at the end of May, the Pistons fired Carlisle for reasons never satisfactorily explained.

    Perhaps it was because Larry Brown had opted to depart Philadelphia and was pleasingly available. Perhaps not; perhaps Carlisle's rigid, aloof demeanor offended high levels of Pistons' management.

    Whatever, Brown, the vagabond coach with the high marks of success and experience, was hired to replace Carlisle in Detroit.

    Carlisle got the shaft from the Pistons.

    He remains noncommittal, but as first-year coach of the Pacers he must burn inwardly to knock off the Pistons.

    When this series started, he tried to make the rivalry a non-issue, telling the media that he had the memory span of an egg timer. Nobody thought to ask: "Soft-boiled or hard-boiled?"

    I say Carlisle is quite hard-boiled - strong, and tough.

    And after he defused the Pistons and 22,076 walkout fans, Carlisle indulged in another slip of gamesmanship with the Pacers reclaiming the home court edge.

    "The thing our guys got to remember," he said of the Pacers, "is that the pressure is not on them.

    "The pressure is on Detroit because their whole season is made or broken on whether they make it to the Finals. They've been here last year.

    "I told the guys before the game that there aren't many people on our bandwagon right now."

    And Friday night, when the wheels came off, there was a mass exodus from the Pistons' bandwagon.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    Wow, great article. Hey Piston fans, Carlisle can't adjust, huh?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon


  4. #4
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    I can see why Kstat hates this guy.


    http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/drew29_20040529.htm


    Pistons



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    DREW SHARP: Carlisle gives up control, Pacers gain the advantage

    May 29, 2004







    BY DREW SHARP
    FREE PRESS COLUMNIST


    Give Rick Carlisle credit. And, no, this isn't a misprint.

    The smartest people are those who realize that they don't know everything. The more successful coaches are those who realize that ultimately players must play.

    There's no avoiding that conclusion and it finally hit the notoriously stubborn, fanatically controlling Carlisle when his Indiana Pacers had few other alternatives.

    He threw away the script.

    He told his players to relax, play their game and trust their instincts in regard to controlling the tempo.

    Carlisle put the course of a season's destiny in his players' hands and the result was a return of the home-court advantage. Should the Pacers' 83-68 Game 4 stunner at the Palace provide the catalyst for an Eastern Conference championship, it might also be portrayed as the evolution of a championship coach.

    Carlisle deserves his props for this one. He's the man who doesn't change, doesn't tinker, doesn't back down, but he altered his lineup and his team's mind-set, moving the more offensively savvy Austin Croshere in the starting five.

    "So much has been said about missed shots in this series that it's bound to get in your head," Carlisle said. "I just told them that they all know how to play basketball and sometimes you have to just go out and play. They played hard. They played together. I'm really happy for them."

    Perhaps he learned from mistakes at the Pistons' helm.

    The term "offensive" assumed a different distinction as both the Pistons and Indiana Pacers realized that the basket isn't merely a decorative ornament. It can be a useful instrument if actively pursued rather than avoided as though it were a virus.

    A physical, hard-working team can aggressively try to score (shhhh, don't say that too loudly) without risking its membership in the do-it-with-defense fraternity.

    But the Pistons would likely argue this morning that there's nothing wrong with doing it ugly.

    This is what happens when heretics such as wide-open three-point shooters are allowed to roam freely.

    The Pistons lost a tremendous opportunity to seize control of these Eastern Conference finals. They lost their poise. They lost their swagger. They lost their identity. But perhaps more seriously, they lost their home-court advantage.

    It's a series once again.

    "I told them that the pressure was on Detroit," Carlisle said. "Their whole season is made or broken on whether or not they get to the finals because they've been here before."

    And just as everyone would remember The Block at the end of Game 2 should the Pistons snatch the Eastern Conference crown, they'll remember The Blackout of Game 4 should Indiana take the next step to the NBA Finals.

    What were the Pistons thinking? How thick was the fog forming between their ears? Did they actually believe that reputation alone would intimidate the offensively challenged Pacers?

    The Pacers glanced up at the scoreboard and saw they had 70 points. It would be perfectly understandable if they immediately assumed the game was in its second overtime. But it was only the end of the third quarter.

    The Pistons gave a weakened opponent gasping for its offensive breath voluntary mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and in the process reopened questions about their capacity to handle prosperity.

    The Pacers knew the consequences of a third straight loss. This series would be over. There's no way that the Pistons would lose three straight -- despite two of the games taking place in Indianapolis.

    "They surprised us a little bit" by switching around the starting lineup, Chauncey Billups said. "It changes the way we prepared. It surprised us a little bit, but that didn't decide the game. They controlled and played the game they wanted to play."

    Who knows Carlisle better than his former players? They figured there was no way he would boldly adjust his starting lineup with Croshere who proved deadly from three-point range. He nailed a three to end the first half and another to open the third quarter.

    "It was an opportunity to change the geometry of the game," Carlisle said. "It was a little bit of a gamble. Austin changes the game. He stretches the floor. I thought it was a gamble worth taking."

    When you risk trailing, 3-1, in a series, gambles are often the only viable options.

    The Pistons were understandably mad afterward. They know that this might ultimately prove a fatal indiscretion.

    See? This is what happens when you allow teams to flirt with the 80-point mark. You have anarchy.

    The Pistons had grown increasingly agitated from the incessant media scorn that the basketball in this series should come with a Surgeon General's warning attached to its side. They offered no apologies for snuffing the will as well as the life out of their opposition.

    Nobody has suggested that defense isn't the primary component of a championship contender. But Indiana proved that a little extra offense can also be your friend.

  5. #5
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    OOOo what a beautiful MOOOOOURNING

    OOOo what a beautiful daaaaayyyyy!!!
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  6. #6
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    In regards to the first article, anybody remember Brad Nessler saying something along the lines of "The fans are losing faith" in the middle of the 4th? Wish I could remember the exact quote.

    And in regards to the second, Sharp really is horrible. How many cliches and poorly worded analogies can you fit in one article. Almost makes me glad to have Kra..., nope, I can't even type that.
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  7. #7
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    See? This is what happens when you allow teams to flirt with the 80-point mark. You have anarchy.
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  8. #8
    DTropps
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    bulletproof,
    Carlisle still has his supporters. I am one. I thought a lot of stuff he took from the people who didn't support him that was unfair and really not accurate. One was the point you made about him not being able to adjust. I am a moderator for a Pistons MB and made the post below on it, starting a thread on this very subject. I just copied it and pasted it here.

    The thread had a title saying "Carlisle's too stubborn with his rotations in the playoffs?"

    I hear this all the time but I don't understand that thought process (about Carlisle not being able to adjust).

    1. last year he puts Prince in the lineup. Someone who rarely started and actually uses him for key offensive possessions down the stretch to help us win games.
    2. This year he actually had five subs in game #3 using his bench as liberally as I can remember in a playoff game. And gosh darn those subs really put some life back into Indy at the time.
    3. Last night he tinkers with his lineup and Croshere goes crazy.

    It seems to me Carlisle's getting a tag that really isn't deserved. If anything he may be the direct opposite. Am I off on this? Curious to see what others think.


    I want to say something about the fans here to defend us. I think we had some bandwagon fans at that game last night that came to party, watch a blowout and then go back out to party again. I can't recall the last time I heard the Piston fans boo the team and while I was there it clearly was a minority that did. Probably the drinking fools.

    There were tons of us that cheered for that team right until the final minutes. Listen to the tape if you taped the game. The fans were very loud and supportive of their team from the start of the fourth to about three minutes left. I was there and was involved in all that. I wanted to show the team that there was no quit in us maybe making them realize there should be no quit on the floor.

    I think people are overemphasizing the impact and the amount of those boos.

  9. #9
    DTropps
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    To tell you a little about the character of the Piston fan - I think we are clearly one of the loudest arenas in the NBA. I have yet to hear one louder personally.

    The loudest I've ever heard the team BEFORE A GAME started was last year in Game #5 against Orlando with us trailing 3 games to 1. I was there and darn well wasn't going to miss a chance to support my team. I think tons of us were thinking the same thing. Piston fans are fantastic. I am 35 and love to cheer on my team. I can do that at any Pistons game without being looked at as a wacko. I can't do that at a Wings or Tigers game.

  10. #10
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    If we win tomorrow I hope our fans heckle the ***** out of Sheed.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    To tell you a little about the character of the Piston fan - I think we are clearly one of the loudest arenas in the NBA. I have yet to hear one louder personally.

    The loudest I've ever heard the team BEFORE A GAME started was last year in Game #5 against Orlando with us trailing 3 games to 1. I was there and darn well wasn't going to miss a chance to support my team. I think tons of us were thinking the same thing. Piston fans are fantastic. I am 35 and love to cheer on my team. I can do that at any Pistons game without being looked at as a wacko. I can't do that at a Wings or Tigers game.
    Ever go to a playoff game at Market Square Arena?

    When we beat the Celtics in game 4 in the '90s, forcing a game five, I thought the whole damn cockroach motel was about to cave in on us. The air seemed to hum it was so loud. My ears were ringing the next day it was so loud.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    Thanx for the articles. You always learn alot by reading the opponent's press. Carlisle definitely deserves the credit, and Brown was just to give it to him. The chess match is on.

  13. #13
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    To tell you a little about the character of the Piston fan - I think we are clearly one of the loudest arenas in the NBA. I have yet to hear one louder personally.

    The loudest I've ever heard the team BEFORE A GAME started was last year in Game #5 against Orlando with us trailing 3 games to 1. I was there and darn well wasn't going to miss a chance to support my team. I think tons of us were thinking the same thing. Piston fans are fantastic. I am 35 and love to cheer on my team. I can do that at any Pistons game without being looked at as a wacko. I can't do that at a Wings or Tigers game.
    Ever go to a playoff game at Market Square Arena?

    When we beat the Celtics in game 4 in the '90s, forcing a game five, I thought the whole damn cockroach motel was about to cave in on us. The air seemed to hum it was so loud. My ears were ringing the next day it was so loud.
    just like the Silverdome was twice as loud as the Palace......the more sophisticated the arena, the less loud it is.

    I'll also add that the Pistons drew over a MILLION fans in 1988, divide that by 40 and thats more than 25,000 people a NIGHT. At times there were upwards of 40,000 people at the games. Thats TWICE the max capacity of the Palace.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  14. #14
    DTropps
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    Eindar,
    No I haven't. I really thought about getting game #1 tickets to the playoffs there but I couldn't. Had some work I had to do. I am sure it is loud there too and I'm sure the game you are talking about was very loud as well. But I've even heard this from national folk - they put Pistons crowds right behind Sacramento as the loudest crowds out.

    There is a reason for it too. Believe it or not they are still second-fiddle to the Wings. That means the place to be is Wings games and the "place to be seen" is still JLA and not the Palace. The Pistons are still under the radar screen when it comes to the Palace as being "the place to be" so the non-fans that just get tickets to be at the happening place aren't here yet. That means real fans get hold of the tickets and they have no reservations cheering their heads off. I swear the average age at a Pistons game is no older than 25. Kids love cheering. Young adults love cheering. I at 35 love going crazy. But Mr. Corporate executive doesn't. The Palace doesn't have a ton of those people - yet.

    During the first Pistons' runs the opposite was true and while it could be loud the Palace wasn't nearly as loud back then as it is now. When the Pistons started to lose again and the Wings took off those people left, leaving the real fans with the Pistons. I'm hoping hockey comes back strong next fall without a lockout. Because I fear some of those "to be seen" fans will start invading the Palace and ruin our crowd edge. It will happen a little already, but the lockout and the sudden demise of the Wings will add to that pace.

  15. #15
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    No I haven't. I really thought about getting game #1 tickets to the playoffs there but I couldn't. Had some work I had to do. I am sure it is loud there too and I'm sure the game you are talking about was very loud as well. But I've even heard this from national folk - they put Pistons crowds right behind Sacramento as the loudest crowds out.
    Market Square Arena was the Pacers' arena before their current one (Conseco Fieldhouse).

    Indy is starting to believe in their team again. You'll see Indy's noise level keep climbing.
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    When we beat the Celtics in game 4 in the '90s, forcing a game five, I thought the whole damn cockroach motel was about to cave in on us. The air seemed to hum it was so loud. My ears were ringing the next day it was so loud.
    Agreed. Game #4, 1991 was the loudest thing I've ever exprienced. (and now I live along an O'Hare runway pattern, for what it's worth.)
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
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  17. #17
    PistonsDynasty
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    Default Re: Disappointed fans jump off Pistons bandwagon

    Drew Sharp is a fool. And the other guy isn't even a Sportswriter (atleast I don't think).

    And the Stones deserved to get booed. Mainly Tay, Sheed, Billups. During that 3rd they were giving up lay-ups and stopped playing D. It was just awful!!

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