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Thread: NBA.com Power Rankings. Indy #6

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    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
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    Default NBA.com Power Rankings. Indy #6



    http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/

    1 Houston (4)3-0Off: 105.8 (17), Def: 97.3 (3) -- Even though Rick Adelman is an offensive guy, and even though T-Mac scored 47 in Utah, the Rockets' defense is still their strength.
    2 San Antonio (1)3-0Off: 110.6 (9), Def: 101.4 (10) -- They have the best coach, the best player and a ton of depth. What's not to love? They travel to both Houston (1) and New Orleans (4) this week.
    5 Detroit (3)3-0Off: 113.4 (5), Def: 98.0 (6) -- Comfortable road wins on back-to-back nights without Rip Hamilton have the Pistons as the best team in the East once again.
    4 New Orleans (16)3-0Off: 113.0 (6), Def: 98.1 (7) -- The Hornets won a battle of 2-0 teams in Denver Sunday night, the first of seven road games in a nine-game span.
    5 Boston (7)2-0Off: 106.2 (16), Def: 90.9 (1) -- Never mind the Big Three. The Celtics are the best defensive team in the league. And they've played two of last season's top 10 offenses.
    TEAM (PRESEASON)2006-07BREAKDOWN
    6 Indiana (26)3-0Off: 109.2 (11), Def: 97.5 (4) -- 3-0? The Pacers? With Jermaine O'Neal missing one game and not playing more than 25 minutes in the other two? What's going on here?
    7 L.A. Lakers (22)2-1Off: 112.4 (7), Def: 104.5 (14) -- We're not ready to admit that we were wrong about the Lakers, but we are very impressed with Odom-less wins over the Suns and Jazz.
    8 Toronto (9)2-1Off: 111.8 (8), Def: 97.8 (5) -- They fell just short of a 3-0 start on Sunday, but the Raptors have shown early that they mustn't be forgotten when discussing the best teams in the East.
    9 Denver (10)2-1Off: 103.3 (18), Def: 94.7 (2) -- George Karl said that defense would be stressed this season, and it's apparently working. The Nuggets now head East, with games in New York, Boston, Washington and Indiana this week.
    10 L.A. Clippers (29)2-0Off: 117.8 (2), Def: 107.3 (20) -- We're not sure this version of the Clippers is built for the long haul, but they're fun to watch. They'll be challenged by a Central Division trip (CHI, IND, DET) this week.
    11 Charlotte (25)2-0Off: 107.8 (12), Def: 105.5 (17) -- The Bobcats are two games over .500 for the first time ever. Yes, you read that right.
    12 Atlanta (23)1-1Off: 107.5 (13), Def: 104.6 (15) -- Beating the Mavs and losing in the final seconds in Detroit has the Hawks off to another impressive start. Even more impressive would be picking up a couple of wins this week, with games against the Nets, Suns, Celtics and Wizards.
    13 Dallas (2)2-1Off: 118.1 (1), Def: 106.2 (19) -- The Mavs lost Devin Harris in the middle of that loss in Atlanta (and they were also missing Josh Howard), so we'll give them a little bit of a break. Harris hopes to be back for Monday's matchup vs. the No. 1 Rockets (8:30 p.m. ET, NBA TV).
    14 Utah (6)2-2Off: 114.9 (3), Def: 109.3 (23) -- The Jazz really have Golden State's number, beating them twice by a total of 44 points this week. They don't play them again until Feb. 19, but their upcoming schedule still looks pretty favorable.
    15 Phoenix (3)2-1Off: 103.1 (19), Def: 101.0 (8) -- Getting smoked by the Lakers at home was probably just one of those things, but for some reason, it would be more excusable if it was Game 50-something rather than Game 2.
    16 New Jersey (12)2-1Off: 99.1 (25), Def: 106.1 (18) -- A 37-point loss at home sandwiched between two nice wins? That's inconsistency. And that's exactly how the Nets played last year.
    17 Orlando (15)2-1Off: 109.4 (10), Def: 105.0 (16) -- Hedo Turkoglu ... All-Star? Why not? He's leading the Magic in scoring and is 8-of-15 from downtown to start the season.
    18 Cleveland (11)1-2Off: 100.2 (23), Def: 108.9 (22) -- The Cavs are the first Eastern Conference team to head West. Sunday's loss in Phoenix was the first of a six-game trip. If they can go 3-3, they'll be in decent shape.
    19 Philadelphia (21)1-2Off: 100.2 (24), Def: 102.1 (12) -- The Sixers beat the Bulls (which may have seemed like a more impressive win at the time than it does now) and hung close with the Raptors and Nets. You can't count them out of the playoff picture.
    20 New York (24)1-1Off: 114.1 (4), Def: 114.3 (27) -- Why are the Knicks ranked eight spots lower than a team with the same record? Check out our Power Rankings Protraction on The Court Reporters blog.
    21 Milwaukee (18)1-2Off: 95.6 (26), Def: 102.8 (13) -- While Saturday's win over the Bulls may have been brutal to watch, it's good to see Yi Jianlian (16 points, eight boards, two blocks and only three fouls!) getting more comfortable.
    22 Memphis (19)0-2Off: 107.1 (15), Def: 113.5 (26) -- Chemistry seems to be an issue for a team that is just starting to get to know each other. Give them some time.
    23 Minnesota (28)0-2Off: 101.0 (22), Def: 108.7 (21) -- The effort has been there. The execution? Not so much. But the Wolves have been right there down the stretch of their two losses.
    24 Golden State (17)0-3Off: 107.4 (14), Def: 123.5 (30) -- Obviously, Utah is a bad matchup for the Warriors, but no matter whom you're playing, the worst defense in the league is not a good thing to be.
    25 Seattle (30)0-3Off: 95.0 (27), Def: 111.1 (25) -- Through one week of action, the Sonics are playing at the fastest pace by far. They're averaging more than six possessions per game more than any other team. They just aren't using them very well.
    26 Chicago (8)0-3Off: 91.4 (30), Def: 101.2 (9) -- Losing to New Jersey, a good team that has their number, is forgivable, even for a team that has the tools to make it to the Finals. Losing to Philly and Milwaukee? Nuh-uh.
    27 Portland (27)0-3Off: 101.4 (20), Def: 115.8 (28) -- The Blazers' three losses have all been on the road against teams in our top four, and they hung in there with the Spurs until the final minutes. They open at home against the Hornets on Wednesday.
    28 Washington (14)0-3Off: 92.4 (29), Def: 109.7 (24) -- Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison are shooting a combined .314 from the field. And it's not like they can just rely on their defense.
    29 Miami (13)0-3Off: 92.9 (28), Def: 101.5 (11) -- They're 0-3, they've got the Spurs and Suns up next, and then four of five on the road after that. And of the seven teams that are 0-3, only the Heat have lost two at home. Hurry back D-Wade!
    30 Sacramento (20)0-3Off: 101.4 (21), Def: 120.6 (29) -- We know that Mike Bibby and Ron Artest have been out, but the Kings have trailed by an average of 19.7 points at the half.



    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

  2. #2
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    I was just getting ready to post this. Two power rankings and we're ranked 6th and 8th to start the season, and Stein said we'll move up on his during his chat, so we'll see.

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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Can I get a link to Stein's chat?

    NVM, I need to learn to read more than one thread title.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Um, how about WAAAYYYY too soon. Yeesh, I like the wins but 6th is just stupid.

    I realize that these are typically from a "current" view that factors the recent week very highly, making the 3-0 run critical, but still. Do we really expect the Pacers to beat the Mavericks on a regular basis, or even the Bulls (a team that did beat them in preseason)?

    If the wins were over Boston, Phoenix and the Spurs then okay, but over teams combined for 0-8 doesn't signal title contender to me. Heck, I'm now more impressed with the preseason wins over 3-0 NOH.

    It's not that I'm negative, I'm for moving up the list since they won. I'm for them being ahead of both Miami and WSH right now since they beat them both and those teams are 0-3. I'm just not ready to say "East elite" quite yet.

    At least Stein is more on track with his #14.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Not to throw cold water on this, but does anyone remember the pacers power ranking last February about 2 weeks after the trade. (I think it was 6th or maybe 7th) .

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    (edit, I had it as PPG too till MR saved the day I's stupid)

    BTW, Pacers FOURTH in Points per Possession. Still impressive, just not as much as if it had been PPG at the faster pace.
    To me the PPP numbers tell the Pacers story so far, offense sometimes meh, defense tight. If they can keep that up against tougher teams they can actually earn this ranking in a few weeks.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 11-05-2007 at 04:26 PM.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Yes...We're clearly better than Phoenix, Dallas, Utah and Denver.

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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    still lame that they're behind detroit and new orleans...

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    I'll take it

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    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    man it feels like every team is just bout ready to average 100pts a game...

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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    From insanely underrated to insanely overrated. Gotta love the media.

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    man it feels like every team is just bout ready to average 100pts a game...
    That isn't points per game, it's points per 100 possessions......
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    If they keep with the points per possession thing, I might just forever block nba.com. Single most useless stat ever.

    Control over pace is the most important part of a basketball game. Phoenix somehow has the best defense in the NBA every year judging by that stat, and it's laughable when you actually watch the games and watch phoenix give up open shots every play.
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-05-2007 at 03:36 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    I wish I hadn't seen this.

    Ugh.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If they keep with the points per possession thing, I might just forever block nba.com. Single most useless stat ever.

    Control over pace is the most important part of a basketball game. Phoenix somehow has the best defense in the NBA every year judging by that stat, and it's laughable when you actually watch the games and watch phoenix give up open shots every play.
    Um, PPP doesn't hide a team's pace factor, it actually shows that a slow pace team is still pretty efficient.

    Look, if you hold teams to 70 and only score 50 yourself, then you suck. You aren't a great defense, it's just a low pace. You look like the elite defense in the NBA. Someone comes along and converts to 100 possessions and suddely you are giving up 140 and only scoring 100. Now the picture is clear, you have a horrible defense and only a bland offense.

    With one view a person is saying "they're 0-10 because they don't have any offense" and with the other you get the realistic view that the problem actually is the defense.


    If the Suns were really giving up shots every possession then they would NOT be ranked high in PPP, that's simple math. What PPP shows is that while the pace makes it seem like teams are getting points at will against them what is really happening is that they have drawn the other team into a pace that they can't EFFICIENTLY score at.

    Some teams actually buy into the "easy buckets" attitude and start chuck crap of low quality and playing well below their efficiency level because those chances SEEM to come so easily. But when the other team is scoring 6 of 10 and you are going at a 4 of 10 pace, you ain't winning s***.

    Again, without a pace adjustment an opponent buys into this "they don't stop you" attitude, maybe even game plan to "score at will" which draws them right into the trap. A smart team sees the PPP and realizes that if you play uptempo with them you aren't going to be getting the quality of shots you need if you want to win the game, you're just taking stuff to be taking it because you are "open".

    This is all a moot point anyway, the Suns aren't always a top defense by PPP. Starting last year and going backward:
    14th
    16th
    17th

    Is that really your version of "best"???

    Meanwhile, despite a pace adjustment which brings their scoring back in line with slower paced teams, here is their offensive PPP rankings:
    1st
    2nd
    1st

    To me it looks like PPP has shown their identity perfectly. They score a lot not just because of a high pace, but because of a lethal efficiency per possession. Their defense isn't great, but it's more than good enough to make them a top team with that offense.



    Dislike stuff all you want, but can I ask that it's at least for the right reasons. People do this with all sorts of stats, "I hate this because it says..." when in fact it doesn't actually say that.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Yes...We're clearly better than Phoenix, Dallas, Utah and Denver.
    Obligatory I believe...

    "Let me put it to you this way: ever heard of Phoenix? Dallas? Utah?"

    "Yes."

    "Morons!"

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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    6th is silly. But I'm still glad that we are 3-0. It beats being 0-3 against the Washington, Miami and Memphis.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Um, PPP doesn't hide a team's pace factor, it actually shows that a slow pace team is still pretty efficient.

    Look, if you hold teams to 70 and only score 50 yourself, then you suck. You aren't a great defense, it's just a low pace. You look like the elite defense in the NBA. Someone comes along and converts to 100 possessions and suddely you are giving up 140 and only scoring 100. Now the picture is clear, you have a horrible defense and only a bland offense.

    With one view a person is saying "they're 0-10 because they don't have any offense" and with the other you get the realistic view that the problem actually is the defense.


    If the Suns were really giving up shots every possession then they would NOT be ranked high in PPP, that's simple math. What PPP shows is that while the pace makes it seem like teams are getting points at will against them what is really happening is that they have drawn the other team into a pace that they can't EFFICIENTLY score at.

    Some teams actually buy into the "easy buckets" attitude and start chuck crap of low quality and playing well below their efficiency level because those chances SEEM to come so easily. But when the other team is scoring 6 of 10 and you are going at a 4 of 10 pace, you ain't winning s***.

    Again, without a pace adjustment an opponent buys into this "they don't stop you" attitude, maybe even game plan to "score at will" which draws them right into the trap. A smart team sees the PPP and realizes that if you play uptempo with them you aren't going to be getting the quality of shots you need if you want to win the game, you're just taking stuff to be taking it because you are "open".

    This is all a moot point anyway, the Suns aren't always a top defense by PPP. Starting last year and going backward:
    14th
    16th
    17th

    Is that really your version of "best"???

    Meanwhile, despite a pace adjustment which brings their scoring back in line with slower paced teams, here is their offensive PPP rankings:
    1st
    2nd
    1st

    To me it looks like PPP has shown their identity perfectly. They score a lot not just because of a high pace, but because of a lethal efficiency per possession. Their defense isn't great, but it's more than good enough to make them a top team with that offense.



    Dislike stuff all you want, but can I ask that it's at least for the right reasons. People do this with all sorts of stats, "I hate this because it says..." when in fact it doesn't actually say that.
    I think this is pretty well explained; thanks. I may not adore any/all stats, but there are some I dig and I like this one because of exactly what it does: Reveals the truth that can be masked by different teams playing at different paces.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Obligatory I believe...

    "Let me put it to you this way: ever heard of Phoenix? Dallas? Utah?"

    "Yes."

    "Morons!"
    You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia...but only slightly less well-known is this: Never look at NBA power rankings before Thanksgiving.

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    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Um, how about WAAAYYYY too soon. Yeesh, I like the wins but 6th is just stupid.

    I realize that these are typically from a "current" view that factors the recent week very highly, making the 3-0 run critical, but still. Do we really expect the Pacers to beat the Mavericks on a regular basis, or even the Bulls (a team that did beat them in preseason)?

    If the wins were over Boston, Phoenix and the Spurs then okay, but over teams combined for 0-8 doesn't signal title contender to me. Heck, I'm now more impressed with the preseason wins over 3-0 NOH.

    It's not that I'm negative, I'm for moving up the list since they won. I'm for them being ahead of both Miami and WSH right now since they beat them both and those teams are 0-3. I'm just not ready to say "East elite" quite yet.

    At least Stein is more on track with his #14.
    Nap,

    I understand where you're coming from, but you of all people should know that at this early stage of the season the opponant's record from last season, as well as whether or not they made the post-season, is factored into the equation. The fact the the Wizards, Heat and Grizzlies are 0-8 right now doesn't take away from the fact that two of those teams were in the playoffs last year.

    Now, if you're comparing "apples-to-apples" the way I've outlined above, the Pacers deserve to be ranked near the top at this point considering that they are 1 of 8 undefeated teams thus far and have faced at least 2 former playoff teams.

  21. #21
    #PacerNation 317Kim's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA.com Power Rankings. Indy #6

    It's no big deal. I've never taken power rankings seriously anyhow.

    I'd rather be talked about then forgotten though. Hooray, optimism.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Power Rankings. Indy #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    From insanely underrated to insanely overrated. Gotta love the media.
    Two questions.

    1. Is a jump from 26th to 6th in one week the biggest single-week jump in the history of NBA power rankings?

    2. Do we get a banner for that?
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
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    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA.com Power Rankings. Indy #6

    I know it's nothing to get excited about. We actually got some coverage on NBA TV with the guys talking positive about the Pacers. And you rarely hear that!!

    Even on double dribble today (Raptors TV) when they were talking about the PAcers, you actual heard something positive. Hopefully we can keep this up and turn heads.
    R.I.P. Bernic Mac & Isaac Hayes

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    Default Re: NBA.com Power Rankings. Indy #6

    and off to #17 spot we fall....

    http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/

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    Default Re: NBA.com Power Rankings. Indy #6

    In three weeks we went from a lottery team contending for the #1 pick, to a Top 4 seed in the East with home court advantage, to just missing the playoffs.

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