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Thread: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

  1. #26
    DTropps
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    rscarey,

    You are right. Foul troubles could be a concern. In game #1 the Pistons rotated Prince, Wallace and Williamson on Artest pretty effectively. I think a rotation like that can work again and the foul troubles are something we may just have to risk.

    I'd like to see the Pistons use Wallace and a bit more of Campbell. Now I don't think Campbell can sustain Artest for long stretches, but he does have six fouls and can pound him a bit. That's important.

    ----------
    Off on another subject...
    The biggest thing that really bothered me about the Pistons last night was how willing they were to allow the Pacers to penetrate the lane and get good looking uncontested 4-6 footers. That simply wasn't happening earlier in the series. Part of that had to do with Ben being about 12-15 feet out on Croshere. But even when Ben was near the post he wasn't nearly as aggressive either. You could see it in the Pacers' body language. They were confident and felt only good things could happen getting the ball to the paint. And they simply were right. Conversely, Indy's defense was very solid. The Pistons got quite a few shots inside 5 feet themselves but because so much was contested they took passive shots. Their body language was pathetic. We had no confidence because the Pacers were agressive. The Pacers deserved this game. They came out with tons more urgency and easily won a game at the Palace. Impressive indeed.

  2. #27

    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Billups just seems to me to be playing like a backup PG, Shooting when the ball rotates to him, but not really trying to create.

    I think that's gonna change one of these next 3 games and Billups will freak out, have an epiphany and score 30+ with 10assists dropping 3s and drivin the lane in true superstar fashion. I keep waiting to see it happen. I thought he was about to do it last game when he scored those 9pts in succesion late in the 4th.

    I just hope thats the same game Ron or JO breaks out for 30 also.

  3. #28
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Kstat, you follow the Pistons more closely than I do, and yes I remember some rumblings last season from Billups, but after a full year of Brown yelling at him, I wonder what he honestly thinks now


    One thing I am 100% sure of. Brown yells a lot at players, and he never lets up. Brown is also very, very critical of everyone especially point guards.

    Carlisle hardly ever yells at players. He runs a tight disciplined ship, but he is like the teacher you had in school who just knew how to control the classroom without raising their voice.

  4. #29
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    I know what I'd like to do if they switch Ben Wallace over to Artest.

    Put in Bender.
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  5. #30

    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Rick might get to some yelling sometimes behind closed doors..

    But Larry likes to punish and embarass and scold his players with the media. Except, of course, with certain free agents who aren't sure they are going to be returning.

    Rick actually praised Ron when he had his worst game of the year to the media. He talked about how mature he is and all that.

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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Please, Larry Brown, put Ben on Artest.

    I'm begging.

    That will open up the lane even more for Pacers penetration.

    With Croshere in the game, Ben can't play goalie. And that's Ben's claim to fame, playing goalie, intimidating the guards, getting rebounds. His post defense is average and I haven't really seen him try to guard a quicker player on the perimeter but I'd imagine it isn't pretty.

    That's the beauty of Rick's adjustment: Brownie's first counter-adjustement would play right into our game plan, too.

    Brownie's best move, believe it or not, would be to pull Ben, and put in Okur and match him up against Croshere. Would Ben respond as positively to such a move as Foster did?

    Who knows if it will all work out but I really like the position we're in.
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  7. #32
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    It's nice to have a team so deep that you can pluck your tenth man off the bench and insert him into the starting lineup and cause the other team havoc.

    Maybe Brown he will pull Prince and start someone else, but I doubt it.

    The problem or problems as I see them is Prince doesn't match up with Artest and Croshere pulls an interior defender. I don't see any solutions other than Detroit trying to play harder.

    I think Indiana is going to pull this series out.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Please, Larry Brown, put Ben on Artest.

    I'm begging.

    That will open up the lane even more for Pacers penetration.

    With Croshere in the game, Ben can't play goalie. And that's Ben's claim to fame, playing goalie, intimidating the guards, getting rebounds. His post defense is average and I haven't really seen him try to guard a quicker player on the perimeter but I'd imagine it isn't pretty.

    That's the beauty of Rick's adjustment: Brownie's first counter-adjustement would play right into our game plan, too.

    Brownie's best move, believe it or not, would be to pull Ben, and put in Okur and match him up against Croshere. Would Ben respond as positively to such a move as Foster did?

    Who knows if it will all work out but I really like the position we're in.
    Im glad youre not larry brown.......

    I think you underrate Ben more than anyone else I know.

    His post defense is average, yeah, thats why everyone has such a tough time scoring on him........

    Oh and BTW, who exactly is QUICKER than Ben Wallace? Artest? Croshere? Give me a break. I might argue Bender, but he doesnt dribble well enough to go by him.

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  9. #34
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    His post defense is average, yeah, thats why everyone has such a tough time scoring on him........
    What is there to disagree with about that? It has been Sheed, not Ben, that has handled the lion's share of the post defense this series. It's like we've said... Ben Wallace is an EXCELLENT help defender. Best in the league, hands down. But there's a reason that Sheed handles post D this year and Cliffy did it last year. Both of those players are better post defenders than Big Ben.
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  10. #35
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    His post defense is average, yeah, thats why everyone has such a tough time scoring on him........
    What is there to disagree with about that? It has been Sheed, not Ben, that has handled the lion's share of the post defense this series. It's like we've said... Ben Wallace is an EXCELLENT help defender. Best in the league, hands down. But there's a reason that Sheed handles post D this year and Cliffy did it last year. Both of those players are better post defenders than Big Ben.
    Yash, it allows ben to have a greater effect on the game than being occupied with just ONE guy. Doesn't mean Ben's not a very good one on one defender, it just means that he has a GREATER effect on the game when he's allowed to roam.

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  11. #36
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Yash, it allows ben to have a greater effect on the game than being occupied with just ONE guy. Doesn't mean Ben's not a very good one on one defender, it just means that he has a GREATER effect on the game when he's allowed to roam.
    My point exactly. At help defense, he's possibly the best in the world. At post defense, he's decent, but not even the best on his team.
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    I agree with D Hou hu....first off (if I'm Detroit) I make Cro prove he can do it 2 games in a row, put the presure of living up to it squarely on AC. 2ndly, I attack the middle on offense and try to get AC out of there on fouls and perhaps even a less mobile JO in trouble too.
    I might consider starting Corliss in place of Prince and really * Artest.
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  13. #38
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    If I'm Larry - I replace every starter with guys who haven't played the whole year, guys with no playoff experience or those who simply don't have it come playoff time.
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Most excellant Plan ABADays....I'll email Larry Brown immediately!!!
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    I dont know, maybe switching Prince to Croshere? Or matching Williams on him? That way Ben and Rasheed both can stay at the Pacers top offensive threats (JO and Ron). Croshere shoots a lot from the outside, so keeping Rasheed on him would drag a rebounder and blocker out of the paint, which is what I think Indiana wants, but Detroit definitely not.

    Just my .

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  16. #41
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Yash, it allows ben to have a greater effect on the game than being occupied with just ONE guy. Doesn't mean Ben's not a very good one on one defender, it just means that he has a GREATER effect on the game when he's allowed to roam.
    My point exactly. At help defense, he's possibly the best in the world. At post defense, he's decent, but not even the best on his team.

    I thought that's what I was trying to say.

    Ben is the best goalie in basketball. In fact, the only player I've seen that's comparable is Mutombo.

    Do you think I'm disrespecting him because I'm calling him a goalie? He's at his best when he can park in front of the basekt, roam the paint, block shots, scare all the little guys from driving into the lane, and chase down rebounds. And he's damn good at all that, but if that's not the equivalent of a hockey/ soccer goalie, then what is?

    But lots of guys can still score against Ben one-on-one in the paint. JO has three inches on him, and even if Ben pushes him a little further out than he'd like, JO can always just turn and shoot over the top of him.
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  17. #42
    DTropps
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Billups just seems to me to be playing like a backup PG, Shooting when the ball rotates to him, but not really trying to create.

    I think that's gonna change one of these next 3 games and Billups will freak out, have an epiphany and score 30+ with 10assists dropping 3s and drivin the lane in true superstar fashion. I keep waiting to see it happen. I thought he was about to do it last game when he scored those 9pts in succesion late in the 4th.

    I just hope thats the same game Ron or JO breaks out for 30 also.

    Your first statement is pretty accurate. He isn't creating and that's because Brown won't let him post or drive. He wants him to be a true PG. With Tinsley out or at least not near 100 percent tonight we need to exploit that. Billups is the top offensive mismatch we have and we have yet to use it for an entire game. If Brown (and that's a big IF) allows Billups to do what he can do best - drive and post up against smaller and weaker PGs - at least fairly consistently the Pistons will have a weapon that the Pacers will have to seriously address. So far with the exception of the first half in game #1 though we haven't seen that. And even in that game it was like Brown went to him at halftime and said "That first half was all fine and dandy, but let's see you be my PG in the second half." Billups didn't do the things that made him effective in that first half and disappeared in the second half.

    The one aspect to his game that I agree with Brown is that Billups has a tendency to take the quick trey too often. He's done that in this series quite often and that's where he and Brown really have their run-ins.

    We have a classic case of a coach wanting his player to do something while the player wants to do what comes naturally to him because it is his strength. That has created a mentally confused Billups for much of the season - especially after Carlisle allowed Billups to do what he pretty much wanted the last two years. Both (Brown and Billups) can take some portion of credit for his inconsistent play this year.

  18. #43
    DTropps
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Please, Larry Brown, put Ben on Artest.

    With Croshere in the game, Ben can't play goalie. And that's Ben's claim to fame, playing goalie, intimidating the guards, getting rebounds. His post defense is average and I haven't really seen him try to guard a quicker player on the perimeter but I'd imagine it isn't pretty.
    As Kstat stated I've noted some outside people vastly underrated Ben's one-on-one defense. It's pretty darned awesome. I think people see on the highlights the weakside blocks and stuff like that because those are the most glamorous plays to show on Sportscenter. But over the last three years I've seen Ben isolated on tons of outstanding players and totally frustrate them. He even had about a five-minute period against Shaq (I think it was last year) where he had him pretty confused.

    I have missed about 6 Pistons games the last two years and probably about 15 in the last three. Until you see Ben every day you honestly don't know how good he really is. And if you just watch him on TV, TV isn't telling you half the story. You see people see him from 17 feet out and you can predict what's going to happen before it does. TV doesn't show the hesitation or the upstrong turns to weak shot as well as being there live. I posted this on a MB I'm a moderator on a few days ago and I'll stand by this - I am a Lions season-ticket holder and as much as Barry Sanders amazed me by something every game, Ben does the same. He's simply amazing - but not from the obvious offensive standpoint that most fans reflect star status from.

    I have to give in a bit here though. One thing I have noticed since Wallace has come here is it seems we've put Ben in a helpside position much more than in the past even and it seems his one-on-one defense has slid a tad as the weeks have gone on. That has been pretty evident in this series against Indy. So I do see where some Pacer fans come with their viewpoints.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: You're Larry Brown. What do you change for Game 5?

    Fine with me... put Ben on Artest and see where it gets ya.

    And when Artest is ready for a breather, put in Bender.
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