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Thread: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    I don't have too much to say. Great, and I do mean great first half, not so good second half. But overall it was pretty good game.

    Listening to O'Brien's postgame press conference. He said that Daniels had 11 deflections in the first half - which considering that he didn't play too much, that is amazing. Overall the team had 30 first half deflections which is a very high total for one half.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 10-17-2007 at 11:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Were you at the game? Thought I might have seen you with what appeared to be a wife, but I wasn't too sure.

    But yes, Marquis did have an awesome game. I particularly did notice his effort on D... he clogged the passing lanes very well and I love how he jumps whenever someone on the other team attempts a pass. It shows that he's committed to O'Brien defensive system.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoddage View Post
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    Were you at the game? Thought I might have seen you with what appeared to be a wife, but I wasn't too sure.

    But yes, Marquis did have an awesome game. I particularly did notice his effort on D... he clogged the passing lanes very well and I love how he jumps whenever someone on the other team attempts a pass. It shows that he's committed to O'Brien defensive system.
    Yes I was there.

    O'Brien also said after the game that Daniels is one of our best players and the fact that he isn't starting shouldn't really mean anything, the important thing is who finishes. (I took that to mean that Danielks will finiosh close games) I wonder who won't finish. Likely the Pacers will go small (depending on the matchups). Play Granger as power forward

  4. #4

    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    The first half was incredible, although Memphis also looked like junk. But, forget about the opponent...94 FGAs?!?!?! The uptempo transformation is legit.

    Also, interesting to hear Tinsley admit he had no fun last year and found it hard to show up.
    Go Pacers!
    Indy Cornrows

  5. #5

    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    I LOVE the high scoring; these guys are coming out and hooping like an old
    ABA team.

    Another sign that I liked seeing was the 41 of 48 free throw shooting.
    That would be a 86% free throw percentage? That is pretty darned
    good especially considering the (48) high number of attempts.

    If they keep this up and carry it over into the regular season, they will
    surely win back the disgruntled fans, and then some...

    Am definately looking forward to making it to the Wizards game now to see
    first hand what these guys can do against some real competition.





  6. #6
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 24 points Marquis put up is an Indy season high.

    We're putting a lot of points on the board, but most people are only scoring in the teens.
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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    I like what I saw out of JO tonight. He seemed to be rather aggressive, especially that one offensive board he stayed after to put up for the put back. Overall, good effort tonight. I can't believe I've actually turned into being somewhat optimistic about this season.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    this team is a lot of fun to watch. Great win, i don't care if it is the preseason.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    A lot of thoughts have been going through my head, but I'll throw these out for now:

    1) Despite our great scoring #s, we've yet to have any true "explosion" from any of our players on an individual basis. Marquis is probably the closest tonight, but generally it's been a lot of guys putting up solid, not spectacular numbers. This encourages me a great deal.

    2) I'm happy to say that Jermaine O'Neal is apparently NOT bogging down the offense. The "worst" he does is slow down *some* when he gets the ball in the post, but he's not standing their staring around the half-court and delaying his move or shot. He's also making some nice passes (some of which weren't on the board because the player blew the layup or was fouled).

  10. #10

    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    I'm really enjoying the team effort. Also, what is this, two or three games in a row we've almost had a team down by 30 at one point in the game? I'm thinking we're actually taking our foot off their throats by subbing because it's the preseason. I hate to be a homer, but I don't even think we've seen what this team can do yet.

    Oh, I almost forgot. Right as the game ended, I saw Jamaal smiling. I pinched myself, and considered it a good sign for the upcoming season.

  11. #11
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    I heard on the post game show that the Pacers haven't trailed in any game this season after the 1st quarter.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    I'm torn because the first half did sound great (didn't get to go) but the 40% shooting doesn't look good. The big improvement from the 100+ attempt night is all those FTAs this time, that got the Points per Shot way up.

    If I heard right one of the refs was not an NBA ref but rather part of some ref program that lets guys a tier down get the experience toward an eventual NBA position. Maybe that's why so many fouls?

    On air and by box score it sounds like a pretty sloppy overall game. This is why I wish the preseason had more real opponents, not just so we could gauge the effectiveness better but so they could test the real plan better.

    Tonight it seemed like Memphis was helping out quite a bit by playing into their hands, and that can act like a crutch sometimes that keeps you from finding out what you really ready and what isn't. You don't have to play great defense if their offense is sloppy with the ball, for example, so you don't really know if the gameplan is clicking.

    Of course those of you who saw could get some idea at least. I'm interested to go check on JOB's post-game on this one.


    Guys that seem really ready to go and get the 25-35 mpg rotation spots:
    JO (based on last year's changes his game and the early efforts this year, he's on a mission)
    Quis
    Dun
    Foster
    kinda Tins (3-11 though, where've I seen that before...oh yeah, the last few years)

    Not so sure:
    Danny (keeps struggling, this might be who Quis bumps out at the end of games)
    Troy (still seems like he's not having a big impact)
    Ike (mixed game, back to reality after the 7-7)
    Rush (not even getting the PT it seems, not a vote of confidence)

    Guys like Diener or Owens are just on par with expectations I think. Not bad, not great, but nothing riding on them anyway. Overall this only feels like a solid 8 man rotation, seems like we see a big drop off in consistancy and talent around that point, as in hurts more than helps half the time type of play. Tins, Dun, Danny, Troy (maybe), JO - Quis, Jeff, Diener, Ike (if he earns it).


    So it seems like this team might end up needing Quis just as much as they appeared to need him last year, at least post-trade. MIP perhaps?


    TEMPO and THREES - okay my concern here is that some of this is preseason slop pace, not unlike how all star games are up and down the court in a way that no one pulls off successfully in the playoffs. GS in the first round was about the best testiment to fast pace we've seen so far, so it's a short list.

    On top of this is that while JOB's teams are early offense and keep a pretty high pace, they haven't been the Suns either. JOB's teams HAVE BEEN big 3pt bombers. So when they go 25% on 20 attempts you have to be a bit concerned. Dun has outshot the rate of his previous few seasons, Rush hasn't really shown up yet...what if they end up forced back to more 3PA ball and a pace closer to 82 FGA per game (which would still leave them as one of the fastest teams, just shy of the PHX or GS pace)?

    I'm still not sold that they can win consistantly with that shot. And meanwhile you've got a horrid 40% from the field which considering the "you are free to shoot it anytime, but ONLY IF YOU ARE OPEN" attitude doesn't sound like a very good make rate to me...it would be good for a clear spot in dead last if they did that regularly.

    I concede that tempo loses you some FG%, but as I said the whole point to early offense and all that motion and freedom is OPEN looks. NBA teams must drop open looks better than 40%.

    In contrast RLamar does have a good point about the FT%, gotta love that rate in this game. I just went to check on the others after saying that to see if this was a trend I missed...not really I guess, roughly 71, 55, 71 prior to this. Top of my head it sounds like in the first 4 that they are in the park of the 76 FT% they had last year.


    2nd half letdowns...well it beats the heck out of those slow starts at the beginning of last year which led to Foster taking Danny's spot in the starting lineup. But if pace is a trend so far then this is too. It's not just bench vs starters either. My vote? Fatigue, though of course shouldn't the other team be tiring at that pace too?

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Honestly, I think it's crucial for the pacers to win these games...it seems like state-wide confidence in the Pacers is at a decade-low and with a young, impressionable team, it could be crucial to get off to a good start. Pre-season or not.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Honestly, I think it's crucial for the pacers to win these games...it seems like state-wide confidence in the Pacers is at a decade-low and with a young, impressionable team, it could be crucial to get off to a good start. Pre-season or not.
    I have been thinking the same thing..
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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Prediction: JO will push KG for the starting spot in the all star game all season.

    2nd Prediction: Marquis Daniels will compete for sixth man of the year assuming he stays healthy.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Prediction: JO will push KG for the starting spot in the all star game all season.

    2nd Prediction: Marquis Daniels will compete for sixth man of the year assuming he stays healthy.
    That's all fine and dandy but unless we win 40+ games and make the playoffs, I don't think anyone is getting any accolades, and they shouldn't.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    JO's passing
    He's also making some nice passes (some of which weren't on the board because the player blew the layup or was fouled).
    Same as last year which has been my point on him all along (regarding "slowing it down"). Last year after people complained post-game about this I pulled the Tivo and checked. Dude never held the ball more than 3 seconds total before passing or going in his move, and that's with him trying to draw doubles to open other guys up.

    His assists hit a high two years ago and for the first half last year they were up another 1.0 per above that. And riddled in there were tons of missed jumpers and missed layups.

    In the infamous AJ 40 game I came to his defense again (JO that is). Down the stretch (final 3-4 minutes) he not only scored a couple of buckets but drew a foul and kicked it out to open guys (Danny and Fred IIRC) who missed critical wide open shots set up by the threat of JO and JO's strong passing.

    JO might have had problems passing the ball 3+ years ago, but it's stopped being an issue. Movement off of him and the ability to make a shot he sets up for you does remain a real issue, extremely frustrating to watch.



    Pace
    Since I just brought up pace in the other post I went to check JOB's teams again. The Boston teams were more of a 94-93 caliber team but did maintain a pretty high pace. Not offensively efficient but lockdown D.

    So far Indy hasn't been low 90's lockdown at that end. So I checked his Philly squad. They did play a 99-99 game with the high pace, more in line with what the early results here have been. Obviously the Philly stint is the closest JOB season and might represent the better match for where JOB's strategy is at now.

    The bad news is that they gave up more points than they scored, they were 43-39 but had an expected win total of 39-43 due to the scoring lean. Not much difference though, clearly .500 indicators. Considering the 33 wins the prior year this probably looked pretty good to their fans. They also had 48 wins the year before that (talent there, things go wrong, JOB puts them back on track somewhat...could be similar).

    Anyway, that's not the point really. Just saying that Philly's style seems closest to what we've seen so far. Those numbers for the year were (bball ref):


    Factor________Off(Rk)___Def (Rk)
    +------------+---------+----------+
    Shooting_____.475(20)__.485 (18)
    Turnovers____.158(21)__.173 ( 2)
    Rebounding___.254(29)__.727 ( 6)
    Free Throws__.257(12)__.267 (24)

    The free throw number is FTM/FGA, meant to indicate how often they get to the line AND make it when they do. So they weren't a very strong shooting team and turned it over a lot, but drew a fair amount of FTs, defended the glass well and created boatloads of turnovers themselves.

    Also
    Pace Factor: 94.9 (2nd out of 30), League = 90.9
    Points Per 100 Possessions: Offense = 103.5 (24th out of 30), Defense = 104.3 (10th out of 30), League = 106.1
    RPI: .502 (16th out of 30)

    Note that despite the high pace their low shooting kept their points per possession way down. Solid defense, not quite stopper power but good.

    To me it does sound a lot like what we've seen so far. That would be good for .500 and better than what I've predicted, less than what some others have.

    I'm excited to see how this works vs Chicago this weekend. That's my "okay, I might climb on the wagon" game.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 10-18-2007 at 12:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Entertaining game. Ike was only 2-6, but he continues to get to the line like a madman, 5-5 in 18 minutes. 9 points on 6 field goal attempts, not bad. Quis also looks very good. He's a reliable 3 point shot away from being a consistent 20 point scorer.
    Last edited by Tank; 10-18-2007 at 12:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    That's all fine and dandy but unless we win 40+ games and make the playoffs, I don't think anyone is getting any accolades, and they shouldn't.
    3rd Prediction: If first two predictions come true Pacers will finish top 4 in the east.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    This is the first game I've actually seen and I'm quite looking forward to going down Fri. night. Obviously, overall I'm pleased despite the second half near collapse. Few random thoughts:

    -Our PG defense was atrocious in the second half-all three guys. Their shadows would have blown past them.

    -Actually thought Ike looked good. Second straight game. Not as big a numbers offensively, but he made a solid contribution. Made an incredible hustle play to get us an extra possession by going to the floor chasing an offesnive board. Also had a shot block on an outside jumper in help rotation.

    -Speaking of Ike, and this is not at all a given, but ideally he would play consistently well enough against the oppontent's second team to allow us to generally reduce JO's minutes some. Say 32ish a game.

    That would go a long way to keeping JO healthy. He looks good condition-wise by the way. Nice to see him back down a bit from his over bulked physique of the last couple years.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Oh yeah. Despite the emphasis on increased number of shots and all, I still thought JT took some really questionable shots. Just odd times, going one on one, pull up jumper in transition with nobody down to rebound and at least 2 defenders back. That kind of stuff.

    Just my impression. And I'm not ripping on his overall game. He did not play poorly. Just wondering how seriously he's going to take the distributor role.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    3rd Prediction: If first two predictions come true Pacers will finish top 4 in the east.
    And what if like last season JO spends a few months feeling hobbled a bit and Quis is out entirely for 2-3 months?


    I say this because I agree that both players are huge factors right now, they both look great and are impacting the team in a major way. The flipside is that (again a Rick defense) having them limited or out altogether would put a hurt on this season just like it did last, Rick, JOB or Wooden.

    Given their history I'm a little worried that they are the two critical guys, and there is no denying that they probably are the 2 most talented all-around players on the team right now.


    Danny does not yet look reliable to me. Not worried yet, but he's just got to step up his game by this time next fall. At some point he stops being a young, potential star. That doesn't appear to be immenent at this point.



    You saw Ike and I didn't, so I'll take your word on that. But it should be noted that with Ike in for JO (mostly with Diener, Owens, Quis, and Foster) the Pacers lost the final 6:45 of the third by 14 points. So whatever he was doing during that time wasn't enough to end the bleeding.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 10-18-2007 at 01:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    2nd half letdowns...well it beats the heck out of those slow starts at the beginning of last year which led to Foster taking Danny's spot in the starting lineup. But if pace is a trend so far then this is too. It's not just bench vs starters either. My vote? Fatigue, though of course shouldn't the other team be tiring at that pace too?
    I noticed this too....I think it's a trend as well.....go through the game threads for all the preseason games and you can notice the many "oh no...are we gonna blow this huge lead?" posts. I too think that it's because of fatigue.

    The best way that I can describe it is if you have a runner sprint as fast as he can in a 400yard dash....1/2 way through, the runner is simply going to get tired and slow down.

    That's what I have noticed in all these games.....we sprint out of the gate in the first half where we put as much effort on the offensive and defensive end....then start to "crash" and slow down on the defensive end....hence the big runs by the other team in the 3rd and 4th QTRs.

    I've mentioned this in the previous Post Game thread....I really think that if this is an issue.....JO'B has to figure out a way to remedy it.
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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    -Speaking of Ike, and this is not at all a given, but ideally he would play consistently well enough against the oppontent's second team to allow us to generally reduce JO's minutes some. Say 32ish a game.
    I totally agree......I think that Ike has more then a good enough Offensive game to abuse the frontcourt when the 2nd unit comes in. I will even go as far as to say that if the opposing team has a really bad defensive frontcourt ( that is foul prone ) that Ike gets extended minutes. The one thing that Ike is VERY VERY good at...is getting the opposing team in foul trouble.

    However, this doesn't mean that I think that Ike is ready to play more then 20 mpg....I think that he should play a very consistent 14-16 mpg...even if he gets 5 fouls...not only to build his confidence...but to ( as you suggest ) limit JONeal's minutes throughout the season.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    Default Re: Post game thread - game 4 Pacers vs Grizz

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    And what if like last season JO spends a few months feeling hobbled a bit and Quis is out entirely for 2-3 months?
    Lotto bound.

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