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Thread: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

  1. #76

    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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  2. #77
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I'll reiterate that for the time being it would be best if you left Seth alone. I think we may both disagree strongly with Seth, but I think we see two different people when we "look at him".

    In the end, civility is something we try to strongly enforce, so eventually if you can't keep yourself from staying civil with Seth I will have to step in. But I'd rather let you take care of it yourself.

    I too wish things were different, but there's only so far you can take your comments to anyone, Seth or otherwise, you disagree (a little or a whole lot) with before it's just a back-and-forth cycle that never ends and results in nothing good.

    Yeah his posts are really civil, calling Pacer fans who want to look on the bright side, idiots. Where is his warning to be civil? I am a Pacer fan first and foremost, and I don't appreciate the manner in which Seth has berated posters who really are pulling for this team to make a turn around. If you are going to threaten me with action, then I would expect you to be fair and threaten the person who is the main culprit of the hostile atmosphere on this board.

    Seth has been running roughshod on this forum, since I came here, so when is his civility going to start? I guess when you are one of the gang, it is acceptable.

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    Yeah his posts are really civil, calling Pacer fans who want to look on the bright side, idiots. Where is his warning to be civil? I am a Pacer fan first and foremost, and I don't appreciate the manner in which Seth has berated posters who really are pulling for this team to make a turn around. If you are going to threaten me with action, then I would expect you to be fair and threaten the person who is the main culprit of the hostile atmosphere on this board.

    Seth has been running roughshod on this forum, since I came here, so when is his civility going to start? I guess when you are one of the gang, it is acceptable.
    Your problem is you're more interested in taking shots than making peace. I'm generally on your side on this issue, but yet you take shots at how I run the place and still expect me to help you out.

    Yes, I probably could be more on top of when Seth crosses the line. Maybe down the line I'll catch it better and on time to keep things more in check. But conversely you should start by being the better person instead of stalking Seth around or calling me out whenever you have an issue with how I administrate (or how the others administrate with me).

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    im really confused: so now you can only be a real pacer fan if you're a sunshiner? maybe i just misunderstand what it means to be a true fan by being a red sox fan... when it comes to beantown you're not a true fan unless you're minimally suicidal at all times about how everything is going to come crashing down around you in a firery pit of unending pain and suffering. even now half of red sox nation is completely convinced the yankees are still going to beat them in the ALCS.

    i tend to fall somewhere in between: a sunshiny downer. i truly hope for remarkable improvement this season but really i don't expect it. i tend to think a number of points seth brings up are reasonable but i also think that it is too early to tell one way or the other. the pistons are 1-2 in the preseason and i don't think anyone truly believes that is a real indication of how they're going to play. so i don't think preseason should, one way or another, tell us anything about the regular season. i'm giving the pacers until thanksgiving or so before i really decide how i feel about the team and the direction we're heading this season.

    if you don't like seth's posts don't read them. i usually have to read them in two sittings anyway. i get sleepy and take a nap mid-way between his oddly spaced paragraphs.

    seth, you didn't need to do the "edited document" post... it certainly wasn't going to help the situation.

    StankoLover... can i drag you into this discussion for no reason?


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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    im really confused: so now you can only be a real pacer fan if you're a sunshiner?
    It's all Hicks fault. He had to go and ban Earl before he finished his Real Fan Manifesto. Boo!!!

    StankoLover... can i drag you into this discussion for no reason?
    Oh ****, don't get that freak involved.
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  6. #81
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    It's all Hicks fault. He had to go and ban Earl before he finished his Real Fan Manifesto. Boo!!!
    Man, just because Earl lost parts of his foots doesn't make him a real fan.
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  7. #82

    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Elgin56=Alf68?


    I haven't seen them play yet this year, but there seems to be an interesting split of opinions on how they're playing.

    What I can say is this: everyone that I've talked to, who doesn't analyze or isn't good at analyzing the games, says there is a significant difference between the way they're playing now and the way they played last year. Is that honestly debatable? 101 shots; you don't get off 101 shots in regulation without shooting early in the clock or getting a monstrous number of offensive rebounds, which the Pacers didn't. Sorry, I but I don't remember seeing the Pacers pushing the ball up the court towards the end of last season. What I do remember is Tinsley bringing the ball up court and "dumping" the ball into O'Neal or Murphy 90% of the time and getting into a predictable offense. From what I've heard, this year's offense is also predictable; they always get the ball up court and pressure the opposing defense to react faster. Sounds good to me.

    Also, I've heard nothing but good things about Diener. I'm skeptical because there IS a difference between preseason and regular season. Otherwise, I would've been ready to call Saras a potential all-star after shredding the Utah Jazz for 20 points in the '05-'06 preseason. Everyone says he's the real deal; even the fans in Orlando thought he should've been the backup PG there, not Arroyo. The difference between Saras and Diener is that the teams vying to sign him this year (Miami, Indy, etc.) had seen him play a LOT more against NBA level competition than the teams that recruited Saras, hoping that he'd be able to adapt. At the very least, Diener has come in with rather low expectations from fans, and apparently he'll win us over with his hustle.

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Man, just because Earl lost parts of his foots doesn't make him a real fan.
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  9. #84
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Elgin56=Alf68?


    I haven't seen them play yet this year, but there seems to be an interesting split of opinions on how they're playing.

    What I can say is this: everyone that I've talked to, who doesn't analyze or isn't good at analyzing the games, says there is a significant difference between the way they're playing now and the way they played last year. Is that honestly debatable? 101 shots; you don't get off 101 shots in regulation without shooting early in the clock or getting a monstrous number of offensive rebounds, which the Pacers didn't. Sorry, I but I don't remember seeing the Pacers pushing the ball up the court towards the end of last season. What I do remember is Tinsley bringing the ball up court and "dumping" the ball into O'Neal or Murphy 90% of the time and getting into a predictable offense. From what I've heard, this year's offense is also predictable; they always get the ball up court and pressure the opposing defense to react faster. Sounds good to me.

    Also, I've heard nothing but good things about Diener. I'm skeptical because there IS a difference between preseason and regular season. Otherwise, I would've been ready to call Saras a potential all-star after shredding the Utah Jazz for 20 points in the '05-'06 preseason. Everyone says he's the real deal; even the fans in Orlando thought he should've been the backup PG there, not Arroyo. The difference between Saras and Diener is that the teams vying to sign him this year (Miami, Indy, etc.) had seen him play a LOT more against NBA level competition than the teams that recruited Saras, hoping that he'd be able to adapt. At the very least, Diener has come in with rather low expectations from fans, and apparently he'll win us over with his hustle.
    Dude, that post is entirely too thoughtful and balanced for this thread. Get outta here!
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Lastly, I'm tempted to start a new thread, but I don't want to be deemed a Negative Nancy (and while tempting to create a new account labeled as such, I already have one doppelganger account, as useless as it may be.)

    Anyway, did anybody except my sister notice the title of the RATS recap of last night's game:

    Shooting spree good for Pacers

    Uh, really? Is that responsible jounalism, plastering that all over the front of the sports page? I don't think so. Now, if it was Shooting Spree..., I'd be all for it, because besides the fact we all hated the guy, I'm sure the insurance money would go a long way to feed his family. But as is, that just seems in poor taste.

    [edit] Now that I think about it, and must have just been trying to get on Jay Leno's Headlines bit. That's pretty low, must have gotten the idea from , I'm sure.
    Last edited by Kegboy; 10-15-2007 at 12:11 AM.
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    im really confused: so now you can only be a real pacer fan if you're a sunshiner?
    Consider my point completely missed.

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Consider my point completely missed.
    no, your point wasn't missed but obviously mine was.
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    even now half of red sox nation is completely convinced the yankees are still going to beat them in the ALCS.
    That's not fair...most of us are actually pretty rational. We realize that it will be Eric Gagne that beats us. Either that or Casey Blake's beard.

    if you don't like seth's posts don't read them. i usually have to read them in two sittings anyway. i get sleepy and take a nap mid-way between his oddly spaced paragraphs.

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    THE SPACES ARE TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ GOSH DARNIT!

    Now I consider my point completely missed, or is that my punctuation?


    Gagne makes me feel the warm, fuzzy happiness of a summer day. We're stuck with George, you get Eric G.


    Kegboy, I agree on that headline. Have they gone tabloid/Post on us? There is no way that's responsible journalism given the history of events here. It's things like that and how they handle the "trouble" stories that make me question their agenda with the team, or at least see them as part of the problem.

    Has anyone even heard about AI's legal problems this summer, for example? Doesn't seem like it. But Shawne's traffic violation was front page major news. The guy isn't even a major player on the team yet.

    It all just feels a bit like sensationalism playing up to local expecations, which the news itself helped to create in the first place.

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    That's not fair...most of us are actually pretty rational. We realize that it will be Eric Gagne that beats us. Either that or Casey Blake's beard.


    Or those damned underpants gnomes...

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    That's not fair...most of us are actually pretty rational. We realize that it will be Eric Gagne that beats us. Either that or Casey Blake's beard.
    stephen hawking could hit for the cycle off gagne. how do you make borowski look like dennis eckersley? have that dreadful canuck pitch the 8th. dude has been brutal - is it possible to cut him from the roster now and replace him with frank caliendo? the only thing that rivals the stench of eric's location on his curve and change up are those commercials.

    i guess we ultimately didn't give up that much to get him and when he leaves in FA i think we get 2 picks (which is how we got clay buckholtz - picks from the pedro deal)

    personally i think blake's beard loses to youk's 9 times out of 10.
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 10-15-2007 at 02:22 AM.
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    And this is why I don't miss living in Brookline...

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Pacers related, for Imawhat.

    With Diener the key is that he is quicker and seems to handle the ball better under pressure. It's partly because of Saras that we notice this difference now. We know what can be "wrong" in a PG, at least the backup, so we look for those issues.

    Honestly even if he didn't have the 3 I'd be pleased, simply because he can at least get the ball up and get the offense going. Owens too.

    Now both might have trouble on defense, it's way too early to tell on that since defensive issues are almost always team created, cascading from player to player. But then we know Saras couldn't play defense, so those concerns are moot.

    Are either of them better than Army? Another tough call. Army was horrible from 3 after the first month and he loved to gamble on defense in a way that often left his man free to attack.


    101 shots? I hadn't noticed. I went and checked the PxP and that appears correct. Now about 7-8 of those were tip-in attempts or makes off a players own missed first attempt and therefore not quite pace relevent. Also I haven't denied that the Sonics had a very high pace. There was plenty of time left for more possessions because of this.

    That's why Seattle has 20 few FGAs despite not being beaten badly on turnovers or rebounds, not enough to create the extra possessions. The 81 attempts by Seattle in this same paced game? About on par with the top teams, of which Indiana was 10th itself last year with 80 FGA per. GS led at 86, PHX was around 83 IIRC.


    Another note on that 101 FGA thing. 97 points on 101 attempts is not a good thing. That's not efficient, especially if you aren't dominating the glass. A major factor at play is the lack of FTAs which are usually the result of catching the defense on it's heels and attacking the rim.

    Contrast that with the 87 points on 81 attempts from Seattle. Or the Pacers own 95 points on 80 shots per game.


    EDIT - just a follow up. I went and logged the shot clock for the first and some of the third (where I started at the time). Without doing more I already see the Pacers and Sonics both averaging a shot up with about 14 left on the clock. My impression seems to have been built on the number of those early clock plays were at the rim for Seattle while they were jump shots for Indy. Indy could take an early shot, but only the break off of JO's shot block in the first resulted in an early shot near the rim.

    Also in the first Seattle did have 6 attempts, fouls drawn during the shot, ball lost at the rim on oop pass, etc with 18 or more seconds on the clock, Indy only had 4. Seattle either attacked VERY early or they held it and worked it way down. Indy was more steady about shooting between 12-17 seconds on the shot clock.

    Nevertheless, Indy was able to keep pace for the most part, at least in the first and some of the 3rd. I'm tired of checking any further.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 10-15-2007 at 03:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    I think we are stocked in all postion.

    I like the point guard situation.....tinsley, diener and the eddie gil look alike but defended like sorta dennis johnson.....

    Mike Dunleavy is starting to have a consistent perimeter game this preseason...but i want him to dunk the ball if he penetrated and the lanes are open. Not just lay it up.....dunk it....

    Danny granger was good but reacts slow.....Shawne Williams played good especially inside the paint...

    Troy Murphy is starting to eat glass

    I hope Rush plays the next preseason game....

    Marquis was cool.....

  20. #95

    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Well, whatever was going on out there for the last two games, I liked it. If I'm being fooled or whatever as Seth would have me believe, so be it. I liked the hustle, I like the spacing, I liked the ball movement, and I even liked the post play when it happened, if for no other reason than it happened a little less often. I wanted to see JO take it to the hole and drive by somebody for a dunk, and I didn't really see it, but I can still hope. I have no illusions that this team is a contender, but I do have hope that we can make the playoffs, and regardless, I enjoy the players and the teamwork much more this year than last year, playoffs or not.

    Hey Hicks, on the bright side, at least I've toned down my belligerence lately. Of course, we are still in the preseason, and I usually use training camp and the preseason to work myself into game shape.

  21. #96

    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    I also don't think JO played as dominant as Seth says, but he was alright for his first game I guess.

    The players that stood out to me were Dunleavy and Diener, while Owens played good defense.

    The ball movement awas a nice thing to see, even better without JO in the lineup.
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    ......

    ......

    ......

    *shakes head and leaves*

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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    I'm just happy you caught Mal in a mellow mood, and that he's here before me.
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    ......

    ......

    ......

    *shakes head and leaves*
    can i nominate for post of the year?
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    Default Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I hope we run this play alot. It sounds like it would work well with well with JONeal / Murphy in the high-post with Marquis ( most notably ) / Tinsley / ( maybe even ) Shawne / Granger slashing to the basket.
    While I didn't see the Sonics game, this play was one of my favorite things about the NO game. They ran it well with Harrison in the high post feeding Dun and Quis. I'd love it if we could use it to get our scoring bigs (JO and Ike) one on one chances in the low post. You could have a guy like Murphy or Shawne (who's a good enough outside shooter that they couldn't back off too much) feed JO or Ike and create a one-on-one situation. Both players have the low post skills to be incredibly successful in this type of situation.

    It sounds like JO did some good work from the high post in the Sonics game. I hope this is a role that he can embrace as he is a pretty good passer and someone who teams will always guard.

    One last thing: Keep up the good work Seth. I like your posts, though much of the time I don't agree. The only thing I would say is that you overstate your case a bit at times. Also, be careful of seeing what you want to see. Whatever you do, keep posting.
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