Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

  1. #1

    Default Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Hello everyone! It's good to have some extra time to write again, it's been a couple of weeks I think. Today I have some disjointed, random topics I want to express my views on, since I haven't done much writing lately. Maybe some of it will be new to you, and maybe some it will be old. Nevertheless, these are the things on my mind as September nears its end.

    Like most small towns in Indiana, the town I work in has a festival each fall. I'm sure many of you know the types of events I'm talking about....carnival rides, cotton candy, tenderloin sandwiches, homecoming parades, local music performances, lots of booths, etc etc. Managing the second oldest and largest business in this town, I'm involved in lots of little projects and stuff for this festival, just to help out. Like most every other festival, just about every small business has a booth set up for people to come by and see your products and services, and you have little drawings and such to run as promotions. It's good, wholesome, traditional fellowship that many of the small cities and towns in Indiana have help for decades or longer. Maybe growing up here gives me a different perspective, but I love all of these events, as it brings old friends together, different generations together, and its for the coomon good of the people and the town. It also to me is a sign of fall, and shorter days, and a time for basketball to be beginning. In my town, it is, as we had biddy basketball signups last weekend too....basketball is back again!

    Why these festivals are on my mind is this: New to our festival this year were a couple of different things. First, Coach Sampson from IU donated some stuff for my business to auction off last week for charity, and I can tell you that the IU coaches involvement in such things brings alot of goodwill to his program, one fan at a time. Coach didnt do this for publicity or to become more popular, but those are by products of knowing who you are trying to reach, and doing things necessary to make a positive impression for your group, in this case the IU basketball program.

    But mainly this is on my mind because the Colts brought out their "Colts in motion" wagon, manned with games, tshirts, posters, footballs for the kids to throw, schedules, and two of their cheerleaders. I stood back in the street and watched for a while, as their appearance was the hit of the first festival night. Crowds lined up to get a look at the animation of the upcoming Lucas Oil Stadium, to get autographs from the cheerleaders, and to buy Colts merchandise. Who really knows how many towns and how many festivals the Colts reach each fall, and how many future fans they are building relationships with, but I can tell you that this type of stuff is marketing at its finest, with a "hoosier touch" to it. Retail merchandising at it's finest, from a forward thinking, well ran football team deep in the heart of southern Indiana basketball country. I took a step back and looked at all the 18 jerseys, at all the Colts hats being sold, and said to myself: "This is a great idea, I wonder why my Pacers don't ever think like this?"

    If anyone has an answer, or a solution, or any input, I'd love to know the answer to that question. All it would take is some vision, some imagination, and some gas money along with some time and determination. This area used to be basketball country, and in many ways it still is. But there is a disconnect between loving and playing basketball and being identified with the Indiana Pacers, which basically might as well change their name to the "Indianapolis Pacers of Marion County", since they appear to not be inclined to try and reach new fans, or build up a new generation of young Pacer fans from outside Hwy 465.

    On to another topic: the Pacers upcoming fanjam. Of course, because it hasnt been really advertised, we are all as far as I know just guessing we will have one. Why you wouldn't I don't know, but this is the tone deaf Pacer organization we are talking about here.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned at my age of 33, but instead of a singing contest and a half hearted scrimmage, I'd like to see a scene like Jim O'Brien coming out, with the entire spotlight on him and Larry Bird in the middle of the floor, and Coach O'Brien taking the mike and saying something like this:

    "Pacers fans, my name is Jim O'Brien, and I'm here to try and turn our Pacer franchise into a franchise that you can be proud of, so we can begin to build a new generation of fans, and so we can hang championship banners inside these great walls."

    "Building a championship level team may take some time, but we will do not what is easy, but what is hard, and we will do what is necessary to make you proud to be Pacer fans again."

    "Today, I do not promise a championship for this team yet. But here is what I do promise to you: We will have the following goals, the following principles, on which Indiana Pacer basketball, and the great tradition of basketball in this ENTIRE state, and we will achieve these goals by whatever means necessary."

    "1. We will play HARDER than our opponents every night, for all 82 games. We will ESPECIALLY do that in all 41 games in front of you, and for the individuals that violate that standard, we will find them new fans to play in front of."

    "2. We will play SMARTER than our opponents. We will play intelligently, we will follow our plan, and we will be more committed and better coached than we ever have been here."

    "3. We will play TOGETHER. This will be expressed in every huddle, every timeout, and in every practice. Our team and our organization is committed to playing the right way, winning the right way, with the right people, and for the right people, the citizens of Pacer Nation. We will play for each other, not for ourselves. We will play for the city of Indianapolis, and the state of Indiana, and we know that if we do this, that you will be behind us as well. This is our committment to you, and to each other."

    "4. We will HAVE FUN, AND BE FUN. We will be a happy team that enjoys the interaction, enjoys playing the game, enjoys each other, and enjoys winning the right way. We will be fun to watch not for our style, but for how incredibily passionate we are going to play....not for Jim O'Brien, not for Larry Bird, but for each other and for you. We are going to attack the opponent, we are going to swarm them with our intensity and enthusiasm and effort, and we are going to enjoy every minute of it."

    "Those are our overreaching goals, Pacer fans. Please hold us accountable to them. I don't want us just to win, I want us to be WORTHY OF WINNING! And I know that with the support of hundreds of thousands of Pacer fans, and with the deep committment of 15 strong committed and together players, that we can get this done!"

    "Get onboard Pacer fans....the era of the past is over. A new period of greatness for us is beginning, and it all starts RIGHT NOW!"



    Then instead of some lazy grabass basketball, Id like to see a real, physical, and intense hour or so of drill work, with a really competitive scrimmage at the end of it.

    After the scrimmage is over, I'd like to see a short, classy speech from Larry Bird, building enthusiasm and promising there is more where that came from, and announcing that he truly now is in charge, and that the buck stops with him.

    After that, as the fans start to exit, I'd have all the Pacer players, front office, cheerleaders, dance team, mascots, and even ownership all standing out in the veranda wearing the "TOGETHER, WE ATTACK", or whatever slogan I'd chose to be our mantra. I'd have Slick and Mark out there, I'd have Denari, Buckner, and Kellogg there too, except I'd have them selling tickets. I'd have the print media ready to write, and invited personally to come, not just from the Star but from every local paper in every corner of the state. I'd be having those papers start a "biggest Pacer fan" contest, and the winners would get free courtside tickets, a limo ride to and from the game, dinner somewhere with Bird or Walsh or Reggie or whomever, etc etc. I'd also start providing transportation to and from the games from each of these counties, maybe in a Pacers welcome ________ county promotion. Open up your imagination on how many ways the Pacers could build more fans, and then think of what is really happening. Open Pacer practices barnstorming tour to Bloomington, Terre Haute, Washington, Evansville, Anderson, New Castle, South Bend, Richmond, Lafayette, Bedford, Loogootee, Salem, Elkhart, Muncie, Fort Wayne, Clarksville, Seymour, Linton, etc etc.

    Maybe you couldn't do it all, but you could do some of it.

    Jim O'Brien should have as many conference calls as he can with statewide media outlets, he should have a weekly tv show, and if he doesnt have time then Larry Bird should (like Bill Polian does).

    The Pacers need to do something to build up some good will early in the season, because if they don't, and the fans attention turns to the Colts while the Pacers flounder, attendance figures could get ugly around Conseco.


    Next time I write something, I'll try and get back to my normal coaching background and write about the game itself some more. But I needed to get some of that off my chest today.

    Go Cubs, Go Hoosiers, Go Colts, and Go Pacers!

    As always, the above is just my opinion.....

    Tbird
    Last edited by thunderbird1245; 09-26-2007 at 05:22 PM.

  2. #2
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,054

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    The only think I would add to O'Brien's speach is "After a loss we will not use the excuse that the other team wanted it more than us because no one will want to win more than we will."

  3. #3
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,489

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Awesome, T bird, just exceptional. Thank you.

  4. #4
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indy's Wild Wild West Side: 8 sec-check...Club Rio-check...Cloud 9-check
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,933

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    I wish the Pacers front office had ideas like this and showed they really cared about growing their fan base. I wish someone in marketing at PS&E could just see this because what they are doing isn't working.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  5. #5
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,921

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    I was at the Mitchell Persimmon Festival Monday night and watching as the Colts in Motion trailer pulled up. My immediate thought was right along the same lines as your's.

    It's really shocking how little promotion the Pacers do outside of spitting distance of Conseco.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  6. #6
    Member pianoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Muncie Indiana
    Age
    24
    Posts
    1,348
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    O'brien is smart. He will have something to say
    Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

  7. #7
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,428

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    The Colts are the darlings as of right now. The Pacers are a black eye to many people in the state. Who's to say a "Pacers in Motion" wagon would even be welcomed with open arms? The Pacers also donate many things for charity auctions, this particular festival excluded. I'm sure Colts gear was flying off the shelf, it happens to do that everywhere in this state. The fact they just won the Superbowl and have Manning probably has alot to do with that. Jim O'Brien isn't going to address the past. He's smarter than that. He will only speak of the future with little to no references concerning player arrests, the need for attitude adjustments or the possibility of a losing season leading to greatness down the road. Those are all bummer subjects and not uplifting. The players will not be standing around in the mezzanine signing autographs and begging people to buy tickets, it's a logistical nightmare. Larry, Herb, Mel, Donnie, radio and T.V personalities etc... wont be doing this either. Reggie Miller certainly wont. Believe it or not, most people don't want to see a practice. They want dunks and three balls and blocked shots and anything else that gets them excited even if it's a silly pickup game. I'm sure they have always sent press releases to all local media outlets for previous "Fanjams". They wouldn't even consider a barnstorming practice event.

    Some of those ideas aren't even feasible. Some are dwelling on a past trying to be forgotten. It's takes more than just parading a couple of cheerleaders at some festival somewhere in the state to get the following the Colts have right now. Their presence is a by-product of the popularity.


    As always...winning cures all.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Thunderbird, good post! I'll take one of those giant breaded tenderloins you mentioned, with mayo and onion.

    I think the reason the Pacers have not tried to market the team to the state of Indiana the way you describe is that they don't want to. I think their marketing strategy is to keep and recover season ticket holders and corporate accounts. They put more effort and hope into Legends than any marketing effort to the casual fans.

    Think about it. Your challenge is to sell 17,000+ tickets for 41 games. Let's call it 700,000 tickets a year. They can either market to 6 million people (through a broad state-wide campaign) trying to get people from all over to come to a game or two during the course of the season, or they can try to get 5,000+ people (or companies) with deep pockets and not far to drive to buy 2, 3 or 4 season tickets apiece. I imagine they've done the research and concluded that there are enough people with plenty of money out there that the second marketing strategy is the better one. And from a benefit/cost perspective, that may be the right decision. It wouldn't surprise me if the corporate sales people aren't saying, "Now is the time for you to lock in four corporate-owned season tickets. You don't want them now, but buy them now so you'll have good seats in three years when the team is back on top and people want to see them."


    Dr. Goldfoot, your nay-saying sounds convincing, but an organization that was determined to build statewide fandom would find ways to do most of what Tbird outlines. It it always easy to say, "It can't be done" and give up. The smart people are those who say, "This won't be easy," and then do it anyway.

    We all know the Colts have a different situation. Goldfoot is right about that. The fans are coming to them by the thousands, and all they have to do is stand still and soak up the love. The Pacers don't have that good will to start from. But many of the same efforts the Colts are using to exploit fan enthusiasm could be used by the Pacers to re-establish it throughout the state.

    I'm no marketing genius, but it takes me about ten seconds to think of a question that would get 9 out of 10 fans thinking more favorably about the Pacers than the Colts: "A cheap seat to the Pacers costs $10. A cheap seat to the Colts costs $24, but you can't get those and you proably can't get inside RCA for less than $50. So who you gonna take the family to see?"
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  9. #9
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,443

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    The only problem with an all out hard scrimmage practice is the chance that someone gets hurt and the whole thing backfires in your faces. With our luck, that's exactly what would happen.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    557

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Another solid post from T Bird - and good replies. I was a young tyke in the late 60s when the ABA was created and remember that one reason the Pacers were deliberately named the Indiana Pacers as opposed to the Indianapolis Pacers was that the ABA wanted to distinguish itself from the NBA by trying to appeal to the whole state (e.g. Virginia Squires, Carolina Cougars, Kentucky Colonels, Utah Stars). Marketing is not my strong suit, but I would guess that over the years the Pacers front office must have done the math and determined that it wasn't cost effective to go into every nook and cranny in the state seeking out fans who would only attend a game or two.
    But there is something to be said for trying to reach these fans as a goodwill gesture. That's a commodity you can NEVER have too much of. It will be interesting to see how long it will take for the Colt bubble to burst after Manning retires and the sheen wears off of the new stadium. But give them credit for taking advantage of current circumstances.

  11. #11
    streets ahead
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    DC
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,754

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think the reason the Pacers have not tried to market the team to the state of Indiana the way you describe is that they don't want to. I think their marketing strategy is to keep and recover season ticket holders and corporate accounts. They put more effort and hope into Legends than any marketing effort to the casual fans.

    Think about it. Your challenge is to sell 17,000+ tickets for 41 games. Let's call it 700,000 tickets a year. They can either market to 6 million people (through a broad state-wide campaign) trying to get people from all over to come to a game or two during the course of the season, or they can try to get 5,000+ people (or companies) with deep pockets and not far to drive to buy 2, 3 or 4 season tickets apiece. I imagine they've done the research and concluded that there are enough people with plenty of money out there that the second marketing strategy is the better one. And from a benefit/cost perspective, that may be the right decision. It wouldn't surprise me if the corporate sales people aren't saying, "Now is the time for you to lock in four corporate-owned season tickets. You don't want them now, but buy them now so you'll have good seats in three years when the team is back on top and people want to see them."
    ...
    We all know the Colts have a different situation. Goldfoot is right about that. The fans are coming to them by the thousands, and all they have to do is stand still and soak up the love. The Pacers don't have that good will to start from. But many of the same efforts the Colts are using to exploit fan enthusiasm could be used by the Pacers to re-establish it throughout the state.
    the other thing to think about is the nature of the events itself. a colts game is once a week, typically on a weekend. it allows people from around the state to make the trip. thats why the pacers focus on a much smaller area because they absolutely have to rely on more local people to come to monday and wednesday games. people that work fulltime in ft. wayne aren't going to be very easy to bring in to Conseco with any regularity. thats why the pacers focus on such a small area to market to. now, i do think that they should do more throughout the state but i think if you want them to do as much as the colts do, it won't be happening. and as DrG said, winning will cure a lot of this.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    6,311

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Maybe the Colts have been a little more forward thinking for a long time. Article from 1999.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-...ad.php?t=33674

    A one summer stand?
    Louisville officials trying to lure NFL team's
    training camp to town

    by Marilyn Slaesman
    Tribune-Star



    When the Indianapolis Colts arrived in Terre Haute in July, hundreds of fans lined Wabash Avenue for a welcoming parade, reveling in the city's coup of capturing a National Football League training camp.

    Now, less than four months after that festive "Big Blue Day," the owner of the Colts is considering overtures from the city of Louisville to steal away the team's training camp.

    Gone would be the opportunity to see big-time stars play in Terre Haute's own backyard, the economic boost, the national publicity.

    The Colts signed a three-year agreement in March to conduct the camp at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. But Rose-Hulman President Sam Hulbert said it is more or less a "gentlemen's agreement."

    "If they decide it's in their best interest to do something else, we will wish them well," he said of the Colts. "They would give us a couple of months notice. The same thing is true for Rose. If we decided it was too much work and not in the students' interest to have so much of our efforts devoted to this, we would also give them a couple of months notice."

    Hulbert said the school and the Colts are in contact almost weekly, discussing what each needs to make the situation in Terre Haute work.

    "I think they want to stay in Terre Haute," he said. A decision is expected to come soon after the Super Bowl game in January, he said.

    Louisville, meanwhile, recently established a sports commission to increase sports events of all kinds. And the city's aggressive push -- including setting up a committee to entice the Colts to Louisville -- isn't lost on the team, looking to increase ticket sales outside Indianapolis.

    A story in the July 5 edition of Business First, a weekly business newspaper in Louisville, quoted team owner Jim Irsay saying Louisville is in the running to host the team's training camp as soon as 2001.

    "We're going to be at Rose-Hulman for a couple of years, but the future is not defined," Irsay said. "We like to have a competitive market for training camp. We hope to get economic benefit from having camps in town and to get a bid that's tough to pass up." While Colts Coach Bill Polian didn't return a call for comment, Craig Kelly, vice president of public relations, said reports the team will take the camp to Louisville are all rumor at this point.

    But it might be in the Colts' interest to strongly consider Louisville's advances, said Matthew Freedman, editor of Team Marketing Report, a Chicago-based sports marketing trade publication. Louisville could provide the Colts with an infusion of football-hungry fans.

    "I know they are making a great effort to expand their market regionally, selling more seats to groups outside Indianapolis -- Louisville, South Bend, Evansville," Freedman said.

    Hulbert said both Rose-Hulman and the Colts want training camp to work out in Terre Haute. But if it doesn't, he said, "there aren't going to be any hard feelings on either side, that's for sure."

    It would, however, be an economic and public relations blow. The team's three-week stay in Terre Haute drew an estimated 15,000 to 18,000 fans to Colts City on the Rose-Hulman campus.

    The Colts were pleased with the turnout, said Ray Compton, vice president of sales and marketing for the Colts.

    Rose-Hulman was also happy for the extra publicity it gave the school, but it did place a huge burden on the school's staff, which had to feed and house the Colts and keep the grounds and practice fields up, Hulbert said.

    The staff, which usually gets to play catch-up with other campus work during the summer, was busy with the Colts.

    The event was never meant to be a money-maker for Rose-Hulman, which basically was reimbursed for its expenses, plus a rental fee for the facilities. The school estimated it wouldn't break even on the event until the end of three years. The school did it for the community, Hulbert said.

    The Colts training camp is a prize for any community, said Rod Henry, executive director of the Greater Terre Haute Chamber of Commerce.

    "The Indianapolis Colts were a big shot in the arm for Terre Haute," Henry said. "We know there was a significant impact just from the number of people who were coming there for practices."

    Some of those people booked hotel rooms and ate in local restaurants and bought gasoline, he said.

    "But, beyond dollars and cents, is something we could not afford for Terre Haute, and that was the kind of publicity that radiated across the nation out of Rose-Hulman, out of Terre Haute -- the stories, the dateline," Henry said. "That in itself was worth a great deal."

    Rose-Hulman won the Colts training camp after the team started looking for a new site in 1998. The team spent 15 summers at Anderson University.

    But Anderson lacked indoor practice facilities and lighted practice fields. And the $20 million Sports and Recreation Center at Rose-Hulman attracted the attention of team officials.

    The 156,000-square-foot facility has an NCAA-regulation swimming pool, a weight room and fitness center, sports medicine complex, 200-meter indoor track, four basketball courts, racquetball courts locker rooms and athletic offices. Outdoors, Rose-Hulman had space for two grass practice fields, plus its regular field.

    At the same time, the University of Louisville, one of several sites the Colts considered before selecting Rose-Hulman, began beefing up its facilities.

    "Our athletic facilities are on track to become the finest in the country within the next five years," the school's athletics director, Tom Jurich, said. There are facilities under construction to accommodate 21 sports, he said.

    When the Colts left Anderson, the timing just wasn't right to attract the team, Jurich said.

    "We had some housing issues that kind of precluded that," he said. "But we're building some dorms on campus. There are extensive capital projects going on."

    As athletics director at Northern Arizona University, Jurich had helped bring the Arizona Cardinals' training camp to Flagstaff, Ariz., in 1988.

    "We did a lot of the upgrades there that we're doing here for the university," Jurich said.

    One of the improvements at the University of Louisville is the $63 million Papa John's Cardinal Stadium, which opened in 1998 and boasts 42,000 seats. The new Cardinal Football Complex in the north end of the stadium provides athletes with world-class facilities, according to the U of L Web site.

    The playing surface at the stadium is SportGrass, which combines a natural grass turf with a below-the-surface system of synthetic elements to create a playing field more durable than regular grass.

    Practice facilities are certainly one of the things teams look at in choosing a training camp site. They look at winning new fans and boosting season ticket sales. They also look at making money from sponsorships at the camp.

    The Colts could do all that in Louisville, Freedman said.

    "Sponsorships are becoming bigger money makers," he said. "If you look at the situation, should the Colts move to Louisville, those sponsorships might increase in value."

    Compton wouldn't say how much money the team made off corporate sponsorships at Colts Camp in Terre Haute. Individual sponsorships were $3,000 to $6,000, he said.

    "We were satisfied," he said. "From a sales and marketing perspective, it was a home run."

    Jurich said although the U of L would like to be the home of the Colts training camp, the university hasn't talked to team officials about it lately.

    "We haven't had any more conversations with them," he said. "We're just a site they looked at, but we knew we kind of had deficiencies."

    In Terre Haute, business and community leaders hope the team sticks with its decision.

    "This is a Rose project, but we would be happy to assist in any way we can and will assist as Rose wants us to," said Mayor Jim Jenkins.

    Hundreds of people -- everyone from the Police Department to civic organizations -- cooperated to make the Colts camp a success, Jenkins said.

    "I'm not surprised Louisville is trying to get them," he said. "It has value to a community. Obviously it does, or else Louisville wouldn't be hinting around they'd like to have them."

    Don Smith, president of First Financial Corp. in Terre Haute, said he thinks Rose-Hulman provided the Colts with excellent facilities and that the school and the community provided all the support they could.

    Fans turned out in good numbers at all the practices, he said.

    "It was just well-done all the way around," he said. "But I think, in the same respect, the dollar perhaps is there, and they figure they can make more fans in the Louisville-New Albany-Jeffersonville area."

    Tribune-Star sports correspondent Tom James contributed to this report.
    Last edited by RWB; 09-27-2007 at 11:44 AM.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  13. #13
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,811

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    I'm having visions of Jim O'Brien and his fists of fury knocking out little old ladies in small towns all over Indiana who refuse to buy season tickets....
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  14. #14
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I was at the Mitchell Persimmon Festival Monday night and watching as the Colts in Motion trailer pulled up. My immediate thought was right along the same lines as your's.

    It's really shocking how little promotion the Pacers do outside of spitting distance of Conseco.

    -Bball
    I live about 6 blocks away, I'm not that sure there's much promotion here either. Seems like a "cut your losses" approach, as in this team won't draw no matter what so why advertise.

    I do think ticketing calls are up, but I assume comissions have something to do with that.


    "It can't be done" and give up. The smart people are those who say, "This won't be easy," and then do it anyway.
    But there is also the balance of cost of victory vs. gain of victory. Hey, we saved 20 lives and it only cost us 1000 to do so, we're big winners...err...
    Can be done != Should be done

    Not saying it's not worth it, just that it's not 100% worth it and if they have looked into the situation then maybe they know something we don't on the matter. Maybe across the NBA people are less likely to drive for a Pacers game. After all the Colts struggled to sell out games just a 3-4 years ago and those were on Sunday afternoon. Now ask families to drive up from Bloomington or even Shelbyville for a 7 pm tip on a Tuesday night.

    The Pacers natural schedule just isn't as conducive to state-wide attendence for many games. Even when the Colts do have a Monday or Sunday night game, it's a national TV prestige situation and typically a big deal. Despite that I remember some "modestly" attended Sunday games when the Colts were the whipping boy (like vs the Bills, ugh) that state-wide interest didn't stave off.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 09-27-2007 at 12:17 PM.

  15. #15
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The Coliseum
    Posts
    6,248

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Great post tbird and phenomenal ideas.

    I want to address the winning cures everything mantra. Yes, it's true. So isn't it interesting that the Colts have been winners for most of a decade and STILL do these things and never more evident than after it's most successful campaign. They are brilliant in their concept.

    How can the Pacers not do this? Is it cost effective? Who knows? But it's not cost effective to have 5-6 thousand empty seats a game now is it.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  16. #16
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,921

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    I think a point is being missed here. It could be the Colts are wisely taking advantage of their popularity now to make the Colts an 'Indiana' team and give it roots. Something so that when Manning is retired and the sheen is off the new stadium, there's still a deeper connection with the fans.

    The Pacers AFAIK have never done that (in the NBA), even when they were in position to do so (take advantage of a winning team that advanced in the playoffs).

    Plus, how much does stuff like the "Colts in Motion" promotion really cost? Once you make the initial investment in the trailer and truck (which probably could serve other Colt purposes as well) then it becomes a viable tool for years to come and for many events. It's not costing you several thousand dollars to make one appearance in one small town festival because it can go to several events of this type throughout the year. It could also go to shopping centers and the like. Special events....

    The Pacers are alienating fans faster than they are creating them.

    I think it's another example of how out of touch Pacer ownership and management is with 21st century Indianapolis and Indiana and the sports scene in general.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  17. #17
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,811

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think it's another example of how out of touch Pacer ownership and management is with 21st century Indianapolis and Indiana and the sports scene in general.

    -Bball
    Because the 21st century in Indianapolis and Indiana is all about covered bridge festivals and fall foliage festivals and popcorn festivals and apple festivals and navy bean festivals and pumpkin festivals and marshmallow festivals and cornbread festivals and chili cook-offs?..........
    Last edited by MagicRat; 09-27-2007 at 02:42 PM.
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  18. #18
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Great post tbird and phenomenal ideas.

    I want to address the winning cures everything mantra. Yes, it's true. So isn't it interesting that the Colts have been winners for most of a decade and STILL do these things and never more evident than after it's most successful campaign. They are brilliant in their concept.

    How can the Pacers not do this? Is it cost effective? Who knows? But it's not cost effective to have 5-6 thousand empty seats a game now is it.
    See I think the Pacers actually do this same thing. I think the PR hype was higher in previous years. I suspect that teams try to capitalize on the winning or expectation of winning, expand the fanbase hard at that point, and then when the losing sets in they drop the spending because they see it as a losing investment, meaning they won't increase revenue enough to justify the spending.

    With sports I think the main thing is to develop brand loyalty. Look at Cubs fans for example. With the Colts they had teams just as competitive in prior seasons, including Manning/Harrison/James years, and couldn't sell tickets as easily. Why? Not enough big winning seasons to create a fixed fanbase.

    So you push hard now (Colts), get everyone to be a Colts fan, and then when the bad years kick in people maintain interest simply on the glory years.

    Let's face it, if you aren't a fan you aren't going to change your mind on a bunch of PR backed by a team that still stinks. You might look into the team, watch a game or something, but that will remind you why you don't like the product.


    It's not unlike films that bail on advert money when they see a big failure coming (when they can that is). When a film like Ecks vs Sever starts getting bad buzz it gets released with little fanfare rather than them spending more just to get a few more customers. They know they can't win that word of mouth battle.

    Right now the Pacers have zero chance against the word of mouth battle. But if the team starts winning you can bet the spending will jump as they remind the fans not paying attention that they are missing out. In that case the product would match the hype and the spending would not just draw interest, but keep it too.



    PS - when is that Cornbread Festival again? Mmmm-mmm, goodbye diet.

    Silly me, how could I forget
    http://www.nationalcornbread.com/
    I think Vince Young is going to be there signing autographs using butter on cornbread paper.

    Looks like the Pacers missed their chance to show off the blue and gold marshmellows though
    http://www.themarshmallowfestival.com/
    Aug 31-Sept 3
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 09-27-2007 at 02:31 PM.

  19. #19
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,811

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    PS - when is that Cornbread Festival again? Mmmm-mmm, goodbye diet.
    Sept. 8th and 9th in Parke County. Your waistline is safe until next year.....
    http://www.mansfieldvillage.com/cornbread.php

    RV Rally (Friday-Sunday)
    "Proud Of Our Country" Parade (Saturday)
    Cornbread Bake-Off (Saturday)
    Jamaal Tinsley Autograph Session (Saturday)
    Creekside Church Service (Sunday)
    Summer Outdoor Concert Series (Saturday)
    4th Annual Roller Run Car Show & Awards (Sunday)
    Oldies Concert (Sunday)
    Good 'Ole Country Auction (Sunday)
    Last edited by MagicRat; 09-27-2007 at 02:48 PM.
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  20. #20
    streets ahead
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    DC
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,754

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sept. 8th and 9th in Parke County. Your waistline is safe until next year.....
    http://www.mansfieldvillage.com/cornbread.php

    RV Rally (Friday-Sunday)
    "Proud Of Our Country" Parade (Saturday)
    Cornbread Bake-Off (Saturday)
    Jamaal Tinsley Autograph Session (Saturday)
    Creekside Church Service (Sunday)
    Summer Outdoor Concert Series (Saturday)
    4th Annual Roller Run Car Show & Awards (Sunday)
    Oldies Concert (Sunday)
    Good 'Ole Country Auction (Sunday)
    i see what you're getting at rat, the roller run car show seems totally out of place
    This is the darkest timeline.

  21. #21
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,921

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Because the 21st century in Indianapolis and Indiana is all about covered bridge festivals and fall foliage festivals and popcorn festivals and apple festivals and navy bean festivals and pumpkin festivals and marshmallow festivals and cornbread festivals and chili cook-offs?..........
    No, it's about allowing a disconnect with the fans (and potential fans) to grow unchecked. They cannot continue to expect fans to just show up or be pacified by "You don't make trades for the sake of trades" or "everyone is healthy and excited to start training camp this year".

    The Colt marketing team should be getting A's across the board while the decision on the Pacer grade is between an "F" or an "Incomplete".

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  22. #22
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No, it's about allowing a disconnect with the fans (and potential fans) to grow unchecked. They cannot continue to expect fans to just show up or be pacified by "You don't make trades for the sake of trades" or "everyone is healthy and excited to start training camp this year".

    The Colt marketing team should be getting A's across the board while the decision on the Pacer grade is between an "F" or an "Incomplete".

    -Bball
    I'm betting you didn't say that circa Emtman and Trev ending their short careers, or circa the fan friendly beauty of Sean Dawkins pre-Harrison. How does a division winning team that can't avoid 2 local blackouts get "A's" across the board?

    Gee, all they have to do is be the first team to start two seasons at 9-0, then win a SB and magically they can get 56K to come out 8 times a year. That's some slick sales pitch.

    2003 is the year with local blackouts, not 1993. I believe it was the division rival games vs Tennessee and Jacksonville that missed their sell-out dates.

    There was a time just a few years ago when the Pacers could outdraw the Colts over the course of a week, or make it pretty close. Say 1 game at 50K vs 3 games at 16K in the same week.

    And for a season...
    8x60K = 480K
    41x15 = 615K

    And it's not like those Conseco tickets were any cheaper. Maybe now with the price drop but not before then.

  23. #23
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Marketing the Pacers, suggestions for Jim O'Brien for fanjam, and other tbird thoughts

    Me and Jamaal just having some cornbread after his signing session when Shade comes running into us with some stolen chili. We have to get our thug on at that point.


    Oh whom I kidding. Shade would never steal food. You have to force him to eat as it is.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-18-2007, 04:19 PM
  2. Tbird analysis: A call for patience, and some random thoughts
    By thunderbird1245 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 03-06-2007, 01:05 PM
  3. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 01-08-2007, 09:58 PM
  4. Do the Pacers need better marketing?
    By vapacersfan in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 12-21-2006, 01:27 PM
  5. OT-Pacers FanJam
    By heywoode in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 09-25-2006, 12:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •