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Thread: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

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    Default O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/notebook_071008.html

    By Conrad Brunner | Oct. 8, 2007
    With two-a-days in the past and a busy schedule of games ahead, the Pacers shifted into the second phase of the preseason Monday. The first of eight preseason games comes Wednesday against New Orleans in Conseco Fieldhouse. Coach Jim O’Brien said each of the 14 players under contract can expect to play roughly one quarter. Of that group, only Kareem Rush (ankle) is a question mark for the game because of injury.
    O'Brien

    “You never walk on the court without playing to win,” O’Brien said. “That's always important. I'm incapable of playing a game without wanting to win it. But we're not going to win it with our set rotation for the first four games of the preseason. We're going to try to play as many guys and evaluate as many guys in game situations with the idea that we want to win but also with the understanding in the first game if I'm only playing Jermaine (O’Neal) a maximum of 18 minutes, then that's not the type of rotation we're not going to have in the regular season.
    “We would like to win and we will not be happy if we don't win but we also want to evaluate players and see about what kind of rotation we're building towards in the regular season.”
    Because of the demands of O’Brien’s aggressive style of play both offensively and defensively, the coach would prefer to employ either a nine- or 10-man rotation during the regular season. How that rotation evolves will be one of the major focuses of the preseason.
    “We're going to have a rotation but how many it's going to be us up to our team,” he said. “I would anticipate it would be no fewer than nine and it could be as much as 10. We have good enough depth to be pretty sure it's not going to be eight.
    “All of preseason, for that matter all of the year, we're always going to be looking at whether we can improve our rotations. Just because we might at the beginning of the year have a nine-man rotation, that's one thing. Whoever's not in that rotation could certainly be in that rotation if they continue to work and prove themselves in practice and when their chance comes in a game they prove the chance to be in that rotation, they'll be in. If it means bumping somebody out of that, that's what we'll do. It's a constant, all-year open-mindedness to see what happens with the rotation."
    COMPETITION STRONG AT SEVERAL POSITIONS
    The most intense battles for playing time are at backup point guard, both wing positions and in the post rotation.
    Diener

    Travis Diener, Andre Owens and Marquis Daniels have divided time behind starting point guard Jamaal Tinsley. Mike Dunleavy, Danny Granger and Daniels are the top three wings but Rush and Stephen Graham could push for playing time. Jermaine O'Neal, Troy Murphy and Jeff Foster are the top post players with Ike Diogu and David Harrison hoping to climb into the rotation.
    "Who is going to be that extra wing?" O'Brien said. "I think there will be a competitiveness there. Who's going to be the first big in? Who's going to be the second big in? If we went with two point guards, three or four wings and four big men, that would be 10 (in the rotation). That's kind of what you might be looking at to start the year. "
    O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT
    O'Brien said today he was "disgusted" by a report in Sunday's New York Daily News suggesting he could accept the Pacers losing 50 games this season.
    Daily News NBA columnist Mitch Lawrence wrote, "New Pacers coach Jim O'Brien can't be surprised if Jermaine O'Neal is dealt. He took the job after acknowledging to team officials that he could live with the Pacers losing 50 games."
    Told of the report after today's practice, O'Brien was visibly upset.
    "My response is I don't know where the hell he got it," said the coach. "I have never, ever, ever said that to one person. I would be absolutely disgusted, I would never say that – that's disgusting to me."

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    Default Re: O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT [Pacers.com]

    Also:

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/feature_rush_071008.html

    Rush shooting for second chance

    By Conrad Brunner | Oct. 8, 2007
    A sweet shooting stroke got Kareem Rush his opportunity to return to the NBA. He must prove more than a one-trick pony, however, to take full advantage.
    Out of the league since being unceremoniously released by the Charlotte Bobcats late in the 2005-06 season, Rush is trying to rebuild his career with the Pacers. After spending last season with a team in Lithuania, the 27-year-old signed a one-year contract with Indiana.
    He admits the experience overseas brought him some needed perspective and he has a much different mindset now than when he first broke into the NBA as a first-round pick with the Lakers in 2002.
    "Back then, I'd never been through a bunch of adversity," Rush said. "Things were given to me; I'd always been the star of the team or had a place on the team. Once it's taken away you start to value what you had a little bit more. Going overseas taught me a lot about my work ethic and trying to change what people perceive of me. That started in Charlotte and I think it was a little bit unfair what happened but it's in the past and I'm looking forward to the future."
    Notebook: Rotation spots on line in preseason games
    Pacers Preseason Central

    Few coaches value the 3-point shot more than the Pacers' Jim O'Brien but Rush must show an all-around game, including a full commitment to defense, in order to get the minutes he needs to re-establish his value and secure a long-term NBA future.
    "He's not a good shooter, he's a great shooter," O'Brien said. "And he knows that in order to get on the court – and this is the first thing I said to him before he ever signed, that we'd love to have him because he's a great shooter but there are no guarantees, because you are a great shooter that you're going to get X amount of playing time."
    Though Rush missed practice time last week with a sore ankle, he has thus far impressed O'Brien with his approach because he has demonstrated the hunger necessary to earn his way back into the league.
    "I don't remember him ever being in better condition than this," said the coach. "He knows how much I like the three; he also knows he's not going to get out on the court unless he can defend at a high level. I think that would instill a hunger in me, if I wanted to be in the league for a long time.
    O'Brien

    "I think he has without a doubt the capabilities to do whatever is asked of him at a very high level. I told him my goal for him would be at the end of this year for us to be worried about how we're going to keep him. That would be my best wish and hopefully it'll turn out that way."
    Rush still is baffled by the circumstances that led to his departure in Charlotte. He averaged a career-best 10.1 points in 47 games with the Bobcats, including a career-high 35 (on 12-of-15 shooting) against the Pacers but was released on April 1, 2006, with just a handful of games remaining. The press release announcing the move included an unusually harsh statement from then-General Manager and Coach Bernie Bickerstaff: "The Bobcats are about two things – hard work and maximum effort. With that in mind, we think that it is best to go in a different direction with Kareem.”
    Though Phil Jackson, Rush's former coach with the Lakers, came to the player's defense by calling the move "vindictive," the damage was done. A once-promising career was suddenly teetering on the brink of extinction.
    "At least an intervention would've been good," Rush said. "Sit me down and say, 'Kareem, you're not doing something right and if something doesn't happen we're going to have to make a move.' But there were nine games to go in the season. All he had to do was put me on the I.R. (injured reserve) and let me finish out my contract. They still had to pay me. They weren't making the playoffs. They weren't picking up anybody. He just wanted to embarrass me as much as he could and make me look as bad as he possibly could, which, in turn, made it tougher for me to get a contract that next summer.
    Rush

    "Teams were hesitant to take a look at me because they were wondering, what could I have possibly done with nine games to go for him to waive me like that? If you look all through my career, I've never had any problems. My coaches never said I had problems. Phil (Jackson) stood up for me and so did Mitch (Kupchak, the Lakers' general manager). That all was quite bizarre but I persevered and stayed hungry and I'm back now."
    Invited to Seattle's training camp last year, Rush tore a groin muscle on the first day of practice and re-aggravated it when he tried to come back. With the Sonics unable to wait for him to heal because of a pressing need in the frontcourt, Rush was released. Thus began his Baltic League career.
    "I didn't get the chance to show (the Sonics) anything and they had to make a move," Rush said. "When I got healthy, instead of waiting around for a team to call me, I went overseas to keep myself in shape, make some money, get a chance to play and get that hunger back, get back that offensive mentality I had in college. It ended up being a tremendous benefit for me."
    Rush was MVP of the Lithuanian Basketball League All-Star Game as well as the Baltic League Final 4 after leading his Lietvos Rytus team to the title.
    Though the team was a success, the experience was something he'd rather not have to go through again.
    "I don't like having beer bottles (thrown) and all kinds of crazy fans heckling and trying to kill us when we're beating a team on their homecourt," he said. "I don't like catching eight flights to get to one place. I don't like having roommates, grown men, sleeping on little-bitty beds close together. I don't like the food; I'm a picky eater so that was tough to swallow. There were just a lot of things I wasn't accustomed to. Being back, I took all these things for granted. I'm going to focus and work hard so that never happens to me again."
    Dunleavy

    There is plenty of competition for playing time at shooting guard, with Mike Dunleavy expected to start and Marquis Daniels factoring in prominently. But on a roster thin on shooting, Rush has a talent in high demand. He knows, however, he'll have to do more. He'll not only need to play defense, but erase questions about his durability.
    "I think everybody knows I can shoot but coach told me early on before training camp that if I do the little things it's going to be hard to get me off the court," Rush said. "I'm going to try to do everything they ask me to, play defense and be an integral part of the team.
    "I feel like I'm a rookie again, getting my feet wet, getting back in the league again. I'm real excited about opening night. I'm excited about this training camp, showing this coaching staff that I belong in this league and hopefully I can earn some playing time. I'm just happy to be back."

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT [Pacers.com]

    That was a pretty strong denial by O'Brien

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    Default Re: O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    That was a pretty strong denial by O'Brien

    That's because it's a direct contradiction to all the fluff the organization's been spouting the last couple of weeks. They're using the media to build some players confidence, re-invent the public perception of a few players and stress the focus of fundamentals & defense & attitude & effort & discipline. Whether he said it or not, he can't admit he did. It would undermine the ad campaign for the 3rd straight season.

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    Default Re: O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT [Pacers.com]

    I'm glad that JO'B said that we will likely employ a 9 or ( I hope ) 10 man rotation. Given our depth ( prior to the Warriors trade and with the current roster ), I've always believed that it would be beneficial if we employed a 9-10 man rotation for the duration of the regular season. This not only give the bench and role players ( like Deiner, Marquis, Rush and Diogu ) more experience thoughout the season ( and therefore be more prepared for the Playoffs ) but allow the primary core of Starters a greater chance to rest and ( since they are not on the floor as much ) IMHO a lesser chance of somehow getting a freak injury ( which always plagues players like JONeal, Tinsley, Foster and Marquis ).

    Based off of the comments so far from JO'B about all the players, I'm thinking of a 10-man rotation like this:

    PG - Tinsley 30mpg / Deiner 15mpg / Marquis 3mpg
    SG - Dunleavy 16mpg / Marquis 17mpg / Rush 15mpg
    SF - Granger 34mpg / Dunleavy 10mpg
    PF - JONeal 34mpg / Ike 14mpg
    C - Murphy 26mpg / Foster 22mpg

    JONeal - 34mpg
    Granger - 34mpg
    Tinlsey - 30mpg
    Dunleavy - 26mpg
    Murphy - 26mpg
    Foster - 22mpg
    Marquis - 20mpg
    Rush - 15mpg
    Deiner - 15mpg
    Ike - 14mpg

    Unfortunately, that would leave players like Owens and Shawne as "situational" palyers that will get minutes based off of need.
    Last edited by CableKC; 10-09-2007 at 02:24 AM.
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    Default Re: O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Nice article on Rush! I'm feeling better and better about this guy. I really think we'll be discussing the starting 2-guard slot a lot this season. I think Dunleavy would be a better bench guy, because of hil all-around skill set. Rush would just seem to be a better fit playing off JO.

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    Default Re: O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT [Pacers.com]

    To be fair Rick would have denied accepting a 50 lose season too. In fact I'm sure much of last season he was disgusted.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Pacers Digest: Finding the cloud in every silver lining since 2003!


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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    JOB says he has his starting lineup for now:

    Dunleavy, Granger, Murphy join O'Neal, Tinsley
    O’Brien quickly settles on lineup

    Friday, Oct. 5, 2007
    It didn't take Coach Jim O'Brien long to settle on a starting lineup.

    Though Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsley looked like the only certain starters entering training camp, they were quickly joined by Mike Dunleavy, Danny Granger and Troy Murphy on a first unit that doesn't appear likely to change any time soon.

    "It's set in stone from the standpoint that I think if I had to start a game tonight that would be my starting lineup," O'Brien said. "So, as a result, I'm giving them a chance to play. That doesn't mean Marquis (Daniels) can't start, or Jeff (Foster) or David (Harrison) can't start, or Ike (Diogu). It just means the way I envision the team, that seems to be our best team and I've seen nothing after three practices that would lead me to believe that's not our strongest unit right now.

    "Certainly, it's nice to have Jeff Foster, Marquis Daniels, our point guards, Kareem Rush and Stephen Graham – I think we have solid depth and that's so important for the long run."

    ADJUSTING TO NEW COACH OLD HAT FOR EX-WARRIORS

    Learning a new system and adapting to a different head coach has become an area of unwelcome proficiency for Murphy, Dunleavy and Diogu.

    # Caught in the Web archive
    # Pacers Preseason Central
    Murphy is playing for his seventh head coach in seven seasons, Dunleavy his fifth in six seasons and Diogu his fourth in three seasons.

    Murphy

    "Coming from the Warriors, we had a new coach every year so this is not a new thing," Murphy said with a smile. "The guys that came over (in last season's midseason trade), it's something that we're kind of used to and we're looking forward to playing Coach O'Brien."

    It's particularly stressful for a young player in Diogu's position, constantly trying to learn new systems while adjusting to the NBA, but he just shrugs at the challenge.

    "That's part of the business," he said. "Anybody can go at any time – players, coaches. You've just got to be ready to adapt. It's one of the unique things about the league, so you've just got to roll with it."

    What they'd really like to do is make sure the team is successful enough that they're able to play for the same coach next season.

    "I hope so," Murphy said. "It'd be nice."

    I really don't like this, the one thing we have learned for sure from last season is that Dun and Murph should not be put together on the court at the same time. In fact, immediately after the big GS trade a Warriors fan took the time to tell us everything he knew about the players we got- and he repeatedly said that a Dun & Murph combo is bad news.

    I really hope those guys learned how to play defense, otherwise this team will be very frustrating to watch (again).
    I personally think that neither one of them should be in the starting 5, I would much rather see Quis and Foster start instead...

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    Default Re: O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    That's because it's a direct contradiction to all the fluff the organization's been spouting the last couple of weeks. They're using the media to build some players confidence, re-invent the public perception of a few players and stress the focus of fundamentals & defense & attitude & effort & discipline. Whether he said it or not, he can't admit he did. It would undermine the ad campaign for the 3rd straight season.
    And be more than a bit ironic.


    But I suspect it's the truth based on the coaching search in the off-season and the "phone only" interview process after alleged serious talks with Stan Van Jeremy among others. Gotta think potential win total was on the board, and all the moreso since the JO to LA trade was still big news at that time.

    How could JOB possibly expect the trade of JO to result in a team that would instantly win a lot of games? Wouldn't that be a rebuild? And if not then just WTF does a rebuild look like?

    I'm sure the potential for the team to struggle a lot early on was discussed. You'd be a fool not to, or in extreme denial of reality.

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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Pacers Digest: Finding the cloud in every silver lining since 2003!

    Extreme Sunshiners: "it's 50 wins every year no matter what...I mean they say so and why would they lie"

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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    I was upset when I read the 50 loss comment.

    Anyone who remembers the "tank or not" discussions from the end of last season knows that never giving up is my personal motto. I love refusing to quit the way Unclebuck loves defense.

    Beginning the season with a losing attitude helps nobody.

    Hearing that our new coach may have said something like that almost made me write the guy off. I believe him when he denies that he's never said anything like that.

    Now I know the season could go either way. I know that a 50 loss season is in the realm of possibilities. But it does me no good to expect it. And frankly, if you believe in self-fulfilling prophesies as I do, there is a lot of harm that can come from declaring that this team will stink before giving them a chance.
    Last edited by Los Angeles; 10-09-2007 at 02:29 PM.
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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Extreme Sunshiners: "it's 50 wins every year no matter what...I mean they say so and why would they lie"
    Seth, Despite your argumentative nature, I do enjoy reading your posts. But every now and then you slip into this kind of thing. It's posts like this that drag the forum down.

    Name one person who has said that or even believes what you just wrote. Who are the "sunshiners" you are referring to? Who is "they" in your second sentence? What are "they" lying about exactly?

    Further, when has it EVER been OK for a member of the Pacers organization to predict the number of wins in a season? The last time I remember a prediction coming from a Pacer was when Ron Artest did it in 02/03.

    C'mon, I know you were trying to be funny, but you're better than this post.

    The Pacers are doing a great job of answering the questions presented to them. If you have a problem with the answers, then maybe different questions need to be asked. That's an issue you can take up with the press easily enough.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    I kind of doubt the JOB would say cut and dry that he's fine with a 50 loss season.

    I think the situation works into something more like the Pacers management letting JOB know ahead of time that depending how the season goes, trading Jermaine is a real possibility and that they'd then sort of be heading in a rebuilding direction if that was the case.

    They then asked him if he would take the job under the those under the possiblity of those circumstances, and JOB said he's OK with that.

    The writer probably looked at that and simply inserted the 50 losses on his own accord, just figuring the Pacers would be in rebuilding mode.

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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    JO'B is disgusted?


    Mitch Lawrence's writing makes a lot of people disgusted.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Seth, Despite your argumentative nature, I do enjoy reading your posts. But every now and then you slip into this kind of thing. It's posts like this that drag the forum down.

    Name one person who has said that or even believes what you just wrote. Who are the "sunshiners" you are referring to? Who is "they" in your second sentence? What are "they" lying about exactly?

    Further, when has it EVER been OK for a member of the Pacers organization to predict the number of wins in a season? The last time I remember a prediction coming from a Pacer was when Ron Artest did it in 02/03.

    C'mon, I know you were trying to be funny, but you're better than this post.

    The Pacers are doing a great job of answering the questions presented to them. If you have a problem with the answers, then maybe different questions need to be asked. That's an issue you can take up with the press easily enough.
    Amen.

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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    O'BRIEN "DISGUSTED" BY 50-LOSS REPORT
    O'Brien said today he was "disgusted" by a report in Sunday's New York Daily News suggesting he could accept the Pacers losing 50 games this season.
    Daily News NBA columnist Mitch Lawrence wrote, "New Pacers coach Jim O'Brien can't be surprised if Jermaine O'Neal is dealt. He took the job after acknowledging to team officials that he could live with the Pacers losing 50 games."
    Told of the report after today's practice, O'Brien was visibly upset.
    "My response is I don't know where the hell he got it," said the coach. "I have never, ever, ever said that to one person. I would be absolutely disgusted, I would never say that – that's disgusting to me."
    This will be a great one to pull out next spring when the Pacers' record is 25-57.

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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Munson View Post
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    This will be a great one to pull out next spring when the Pacers' record is 25-57.


    By the way, I'm going to start using this as my standard response to the debbie downers......

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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    I kind of doubt the JOB would say cut and dry that he's fine with a 50 loss season.

    I think the situation works into something more like the Pacers management letting JOB know ahead of time that depending how the season goes, trading Jermaine is a real possibility and that they'd then sort of be heading in a rebuilding direction if that was the case.

    They then asked him if he would take the job under the those under the possiblity of those circumstances, and JOB said he's OK with that.

    The writer probably looked at that and simply inserted the 50 losses on his own accord, just figuring the Pacers would be in rebuilding mode.
    That's how I saw it as well, and I think it's reasonable if not likely that it went down that way.
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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    That's how I saw it as well, and I think it's reasonable if not likely that it went down that way.
    ditto... my guess is its more about semantics than anything else. i get the feeling that obrien HATES losing. so would he be okay with 50 losses? highly unlikely. if your allstar forward were to be traded is it conceivable a team could lose 50 games? yes. would jim then abandon a team like that? probably not. does that mean he's okay losing 50 games? i think that obrien's philosophy is that even if we trade JO for theo ratliff and change he'd still believe the team could win 50 games playing the right way.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  21. #21
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    That's how I saw it as well, and I think it's reasonable if not likely that it went down that way.
    "Jim, we almost lost 50 games last year and we might be trading JO from the team at some point. Even if we don't trade JO, don't expect many big moves otherwise. We'll find a bench guy to add, maybe bring some former NBA guy back from overseas, maybe look to add a veteran looking to end his career as a Pacer and call it a team. Don't expect us to immediately hand you a 50 win roster or make wholesale changes if things don't fall into place. We're going to be taking a longer term view and looking to get a handle on the salaries and perception of the team. Are you fine with the possibility we might only be handing you a 30 win roster for the season?"

    How could the conversation NOT have went that way?

    -Bball
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  22. #22
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    Default Re: O'Brien "Disgusted" by 50-Loss Report [Pacers.com]

    What number is O.J. Mayo gonna wear with the Pacers? #1?

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