Tweet
Obviously you aren't a Laker fan because you wouldn't be able to use the words Lakers and morals in the same sentence.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less
-
The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up. -
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
Just like every other player, he had a bad game. The previous game he was the leading scorer. The game before that, he hit the game winner. You must not be watching the same series.
I know he's not near as good as he used to be, but he is more than serviceable. -
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
He is hurting the team if he isnt shooting except in the fourth quarter. Artest isnt shooting well and Oneal finally has come around. Who else is supposed to score besides Oneal. It is supposed to be the SHOOTING GUARD. Im not going to just put it on Reggie, everyone needs to step up the scoring. Right now i do believe Reggie his an hindurance, Not unless he is playing in Conseco. Reggie take your game on the road bud.
2006 WORLD CHAMPION INDIANAPOLIS COLTSComment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
I would not be suprised if Reggie quietly retired this summer.Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
Did games #1 and #2 not take place. Didn't Reggie hit the game winner in the first game, and didn't Reggie play very well in game #2.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
You could look at game one and focus on the one and only field goal he made during the game, or you could focus on the fact that he played 32 minutes and scored 6 points on 1-7 field goal shooting.Did games #1 and #2 not take place. Didn't Reggie hit the game winner in the first game, and didn't Reggie play very well in game #2.
You could look at game two and say that he made 21 points, or you could focus on the fact that he made 5 of 13 field goals, and Rip Hamilton scored 23 points. You could also focus on the fact that he BLEW a breakway opportunity to tie the game in the final minute by taking it extremely soft to the rim.
I don't see how anyone could contend that he made a valuable contribution in game 3.
In total he has made 7 of 24 field goal attempts in this series. He is not putting pressure on the defense. He is not spreading the defense. His slow game plays right into Detroit's hands. Rip Hamilton is doing whatever he wants to do. Reggie should be playing no more than 24 minutes a game. He should not be in the game for long stretches. Have him check in, fire up a couple threes, and go sit down for a while.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
I bet Larry Brown is Running around the Pistons Arena yelling " Brillant" and I can see that Pistons Fans are loving it too
Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
It almost seems silly to respond to this, but I'll go ahead.
This notion that a player whose last shot is the game winner didn't have a good game is ludicrous. Pacers won the game. Reggie made the game winner. Without him they are down 0-3. End of story. Who cares if the Pacers could have blown them out had he been making a bunch of shots. Without the last one, they most likely lose.
And keeping the Pacers alive in game two and leading the team in scoring (a big factor for those who don't understand concepts like spreading the defense which if you watch the game they always close out on Reggie on the three point line meaning that the defense is spread which isn't the case with any other player on the floor) makes that a good game. Reggie makes four free throws in a row, something else nobody on this team can do in the 4th quarter, to give them a chance, and then putting them in a position to tie at the end. Not a surprise that Reggie put himself in a position to make the play. Half of the players in the NBA would have made the same mistake, and a few would have blundered the dunk or layup, and even if he went for the stuff there's a chance that Prince blocks it anyway. Reggie put the Pacers in a position to win that game. No one else did. Getting your **** blocked shouldn't make you a scapegoat especially when there were 19 blocks in the game total. Without Reggie, we aren't even in game 2.
I wouldn't even say he hurt us in game 3, though he does virtually nothing for the Pacers when he doesn't shoot, and virtually nothing when the Pacers don't run a triple screen until one minute left to give him an open look. They guy is clearly still the best shooter on the team, look at the shooting percentages for others who should be higher because the majority of their shots are closer to the rim. The reason he isn't as effective is because the Pacers wait until he's rusty to call plays for himself expecting him to be 100% in the clutch and make no effort to get him going early. I fault him for not shooting more in game 3, but I fault the coaching and some of the players for making virtually no effort to get him involved. The triple screen that they run one time gives him a wide open look. Give him more of those and this is a different playoff series.
For all the Pacer fans who want Reggie gone, they will get their wish soon enough and this franchise will suffer as a result. But if he were already gone, the Pacers would probably be down 0-3. One blocked shot isn't killing a team. Making a game winner to put the team up 3, not 2, but 3, and scoring 4 straight points in the final minute to bring the team back are one of the primary reasons why the Pacers are still in this series.
Why not point fingers at the guy who bobbles the ball when he gets it in the lane in the last minute of the game who is supposed to be the go to guy, or the one who won't pass and can't shoot that great anyway but still chugs a three with someone in his face trying to always be the hero, or at all of the other paltry layups that bigger and stronger players have taken that were swatted away, or at the coach who doesn't know how to get the most out of Reggie or the entire team when the defensive is far better and the pressure goes way up. Or at whomever else was taking clutch shots and missing in all these close playoff games that the Pacers have lost.
Though I will agree, I think using Reggie as a decoy is just plain stupid. It's like playing 4 on 4 sometimes with two players standing in the corner. The guy's a shooter, and one of the greatest in NBA history who can still shoot better than most players in the league. Run triple screens. Get him shots. Let him shoot. And have a little more respect for the best player this franchise has ever seen. Not just because of what he's done, but because of what he continues to do. I'll say it again. He won game 1. He kept us alive in game 2. We're down 0-3 without Reggie.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
[font=Arial:e8f31b367f] [/font][font=Andalus:e8f31b367f] [/font][font=Arial:e8f31b367f] [/font]
I believe that Miller was number one or number 2 for the year as it related to Plus Minus stats for the Pacers this year. That means that overall we play better with him in the game. Sure he isn't the same guy he used to be, but he is still valuable.
Every Championship team has guys that don't miss win the game is on the line. They aren't always the goto guys either. Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Brad Fox... all those guys... I hate 'em! You have to have clutch guys in the game.
How about Free throws? If you have a defensive technical with 2 minutes left in the game and need to put somebody at the line, how comfortable are you with the ball in Reggie's hands? I'm extremely comfortable, and there isn't a close second place person I'd pick on our team.
The sad thing is that I don't think many people realize how much Reggie has deferred the ball this year. He can still score and shows us in clips. He's a bit of a streaky shoote, so if he doesn't have many shots (ie 7) then he will either look great or terrible. You also have to remember that he naturally shoots a naturally lower overall percentage b/c he shoots so many threes. 30% 3 pt shooting is more efficient than 40% 2 pt shooting.
He's lost a step, he's more of a defensive liability on defense than he once was, and he is a pretty old dude to be playing. However, he contributes night in and night out and I will be a sad man when he hangs 'em up.
The most popular person on a football team is the backup quarterback, and the same concept is true in basketball.“Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
motivated and going. Thirty percent is to see if I can get into the opponent’s head.”
Reggie MillerComment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
I forgot how many chamionships has Reggie Miller Brought the Pacers ? All we have is great memories of what coulda , should been..where has Reggie Miller been when this Pacers Team needed him Most ?
I could argue back and forth all day , could , shoulda woulda , what if we don't have reggie..etc. But what If we Have a productive player ( insert name of favorite SG) We could easily be up 3-0
It seems like Everyone is Still waiting for Reggie to save us and I hate to say it , but if we win this series it will not because of Reggie Miller , we have alot of talent on our bench and were sitting here pissing it all away on one more Chance for a Miller moment and there is no promise we will have the same oppritunties next year that we had this year.
Sorry if some disagree but this is 30 years of frustration and heartbreak and I dunno about anyone else but I am tired of finishing 2nd best year after year.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
The Pacers are a better team with Reggie on the floor.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
Not always. Sometimes, maybe, but not always. And I would definitely say they are not a better team when he plays 35 minutes. This past season the Pacers have been most effective when Reggie plays 23-28 minutes.The Pacers are a better team with Reggie on the floor.
Next year, if he plays, I think his most effective role will be as a 15-20 minute player.
I think you're living in the past, or you are not ready to accept the inevitable.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
Buck, Reggie has been my favorite Pacer for 15 years. I've said exactly what your are saying all year long. Reggie's mere presencse stretches the defense.The Pacers are a better team with Reggie on the floor.
But to say that the Pacers are better with Reggie on the floor simply isn't true any longer. I believe it would be more accurate to state that the Pacers are a better team with a shooting guard in the lineup who is shooting and making perimeter shots.
Let's face it. If we were forced to choose only one thing right now in the series with Detroit that might possibly have us up 3-0 rather than down 2-1 it would be having a player at shooting guard who is shooting and making a decent percentage of his perimeter shots.
In an earlier thread that I posted in today, I stated that this team needs a big man. And it does. But right now if I had to choose either a more proficient shooting guard or a bigger, better center in our series with Detroit, I think I'd go with the SG.
Having someone, even Artest, hit some outside shots would have made all the difference in the world in our ability to work the paint. Right now, because we have no one hitting from the perimeter, we are allowing Detroit to constantly trap the ball and wreak general havoc on our post players. They aren't forced to play most of our perimeter players honestly, They only have to rush the perimeter player shooting the ball or receiving the pass.
So no, we are not better with Reggie in the lineup, unless he is hitting the outside shot. If he's not hitting his shots, then I'd just as soon have Freddie on the floor at this time. He is more capable of slashing to the basket when his defender recovers to him. Freddie is also a better all-around defender than Reggie. So right now, if Reggie's not hitting, I'd go to Freddie.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
Maybe some people would rather have a player who makes 6-7 and misses the game winning shot, but I would rather have one who goes 1-7 and makes the winning shot.
If Reggie is the only one who can stretch the defense, and he obviously does if you watch the game, I don't know how high up it is on Brown's list but they are closing out on Reggie every second of the game, then bringing in a player like Jones is just going to cramp things further for players like Oneal. Bender and Croshere are the only other players that even post a consistent three point threat, and for some strange reason, Bender keeps seeing less and less playing time.
And everybody whining about the Pacers being so much better without Reggie will get their wish in a couple of years. If these young guys are so much better, then they should at least be able to get the Pacers into the Eastern Conference Finals 4-5 times, into the NBA finals at least more than once, and win it all for certain. Why complain now when the future is so rich with opportunity? I just hope they don't end up like the Knicks who were so certain for greatness after getting an aging Ewing out of the way and went on to disappear from the playoff picture.Comment
-
Re: I know you Pacer fans are nuts about Reggie but...
Where's Fire the Coach? I think his answer to this is probably closest to the bone.
-BballNuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
------
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
-John WoodenComment
Comment