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Thread: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

  1. #126

    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    I can't believe that Belichick is still maintaining that he had just a "misinterpretation" of the rules.

    Even though I'm a Pats fan, I kind of wish the commish could give him another slap just for the lameness of his so-called apology.

  2. #127
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    I can't believe that Belichick is still maintaining that he had just a "misinterpretation" of the rules.

    Even though I'm a Pats fan, I kind of wish the commish could give him another slap just for the lameness of his so-called apology.
    Not surprising. Belichick has always been a sore loser.

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Not "always." He's pretty competent as a "sore winner", too.

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    THE GAMEFACE: Sandlot Boys
    by Michael Silver, Yahoo! Sports

    Just before halftime of last Sunday's game between the New York Jets and New England Patriots at Giants Stadium, a slight, unassuming man in a dark blue Pats polo shirt and khaki shorts was stopped by NFL security officials as he tried to enter the visitors' locker room. Suddenly, a 26-year-old video assistant named Matt Estrella found himself in a scene that might have been lifted from "The Bourne Ultimatum."

    Suspected of having filmed hand signals from Jets' coaches while standing on that team's sideline, Estrella was interrogated in the bowels of the stadium by Jets and NFL security officials. New Jersey state troopers and FBI agents were also summoned. Mike Tannenbaum, the Jets' general manager, left his seat during the second half and entered the fray, sternly lecturing Estrella about his apparent violation of NFL rules.

    At one point, somebody brought Estrella a glass of water. He was shaking so hard that he spilled it all over himself. For all we know, that wasn't the only liquid that ended up on Estrella's person during the hour-long grilling.

    Congratulations, Bill Belichick and Eric Mangini: your petty, childish little feud just made a member of the hired help wet his pants.

    Now that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has come down hard on Belichick and the Patriots, fining the coach $500,000 and docking the organization $250,000 and a first-round NFL draft pick (if New England makes the playoffs) or second- and third-round choices in 2008, we can all sit back and condemn him for blatantly cheating in the pursuit of a competitive edge. Some people, including a few current members of the Philadelphia Eagles, are even questioning whether the Pats' three Super Bowl victories in the previous six seasons are tainted by this behavior.

    It's a public relations nightmare for an organization that has been mostly classy and commendable in creating the 21st century's first mini-dynasty, but focusing on the potential advantage New England gained from the stolen signals is missing the point.

    The people who've truly been cheated are those in the Patriots' organization – and their counterparts among the Mangini-coached Jets – who've been subjected to this consuming and unbecoming sandbox fight between two shrewd yet self-absorbed coaches.

    If you don't think Sunday's bust was a setup (granted, a well-deserved one), you're not looking closely enough. Belichick ordered an employee to engage in a practice that Mangini knew all about, as it had been commonplace during his time as Belichick's defensive coordinator and defensive backs coach in New England. Anyone with a brain, let alone a brainiac like Belichick, would realize that videotaping an opponent's coaches in that particular context was a disaster waiting to happen.

    Arrogantly and blatantly, Belichick did it anyway, operating under the Clintonesque rationale that because he wasn't breaking down opposing coaches' signals until after the completion of the game in question, he wasn't violating any rules. I did not view tape from that camera (until later, when I used it for future signal-stealing reference.) So Slick Billy was there for the taking, and Mangini took down his former mentor, and hard, while watching his team suffer a 38-14 defeat.

    Lest you think this was some random occurrence, consider the incestuous connections between the two organizations:

    • The Jets' video director, Steve Scarnecchia, formerly worked for the Patriots' video department. Sources say he once had the same duties that landed Estrella in spilled water last Sunday and that Scarnecchia was the one who trained Estrella to clandestinely compile the verboten footage in the first place. Oh, and Scarnecchia's father, Dante, is New England's longtime offensive line coach and has been Belichick's assistant head coach since 2000. Theirs should be a whale of a Thanksgiving dinner.

    • Another Jets employee, coordinator of college scouting Jay Mandolesi, was an intern in the Patriots' video department in 2002 and '03. Sources say he was fired after a dispute with then offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, possibly over similar video subterfuge.

    • Tannenbaum and his Patriots counterpart, vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli, were once close friends, having previously worked together in Cleveland and with the Jets. Their relationship is now frayed.

    How did all of this happen? How did Belichick, probably the greatest defensive strategist of his era and a future Hall of Fame coach, allow one of his prodigies to distract him from the task at hand and make him look like a fool?

    It goes back to the end of the 2005 season, when the Jets were courting Mangini as a replacement for departed coach Herm Edwards. Belichick, who as the Browns' head coach in '95 had given his fellow Wesleyan alum an assistant's job after having noticed Mangini's work as a public relations intern, had a deep-seated disdain for the Jets' organization dating back to his infamous one-day stint as New York's head coach following Bill Parcells's resignation in January of 2000.

    Go be a head coach anywhere but there, Belichick told his then-34-year-old defensive coordinator. There'll be other opportunities, and I'll help you get them, Belichick insisted. Just don't take this one.

    Mangini took the job anyway, and Belichick felt betrayed. When Belichick learned that Mangini, while still serving out his final days with the Patriots, was soliciting Pats coaches, support staff members and players to join him at his new gig, the war was on. Belichick had Mangini's key card access revoked, but not before Mangini, a source says, took a laptop with confidential files stored in its hard drive out of the building. Mangini hired a Pats employee, Erin O'Brien, as his administrative assistant.

    "He did exactly what Bill would do in the same situation," says one high-ranking league source who knows both men. "Bill raised him too well."

    Whereas Belichick remained on good terms with ex-assistants Romeo Crennel, who took the Cleveland job, and Nick Saban, who went to the division rival Dolphins, Mangini was persona non grata the second he went to the dreaded Jets. Worse, the Patriots believed, star wideout Deion Branch felt empowered to hold out before the 2006 season because he'd been told by Mangini that the Jets sought his services at the price he desired.

    Last August, when the Patriots gave Branch a week to negotiate with other teams in pursuit of a possible trade, the Jets were one of two franchises, along with the Seahawks, who made big-money offers. Branch was ultimately traded to Seattle, and the Patriots filed tampering charges against the Jets, who were later cleared by the league of wrongdoing.

    The bad blood between Belichick and Mangini was evident after each of the two teams' regular season meetings in '06. First, following a 24-17 Pats victory at Giants Stadium, Belichick refused to look at Mangini during their brief handshake at midfield. Two months later, after the Jets pulled off a 17-14 upset at Gillette Stadium, Belichick tried a similar tack before Mangini grabbed his arm and gloated, "Great job!"

    In January, after the Pats eliminated the Jets from the playoffs by a 37-16 score, Belichick shoved a photographer out of the way to get to Mangini and gave his former assistant what appeared to be a showboating, insincere hug.

    After the season Mangini hired Brian Daboll, the Pats' wide receivers coach the previous five seasons, as his quarterbacks coach, compelling Belichick's staff to change much of its terminology over the offseason.

    The gamesmanship continued before the start of the '07 season when Mangini brought in two players, wideout Reche Caldwell and cornerback Artrell Hawkins, who'd just been released by New England, a move some believed was little more than a ploy to pick the players' brains about the upcoming opponent's plays and terminology. The Pats countered by bringing in wideout Tim Dwight, who'd just been released by the Jets.

    What went down on Sunday, of course, escalated this hissing match to a much darker place. Now that Mangini has made him the object of national embarrassment – and taken a $500,000 chunk out of his bank account – how should Belichick retaliate?

    Here's how: Stop the madness. Take the high road. Start focusing on what he does best – coming up with brilliant game plans, picking the best players for his system and motivating them to perform at the highest level – and let go of a grudge that is totally beneath a coach of his stature.

    When I hear about Mangini's paranoia, the secrecy over injuries, the threats of fining players whom he suspects of having given anonymous quotes or whose agents comment publicly about their clients' ailments, I think, "What a bunch of wasted energy." But I also can somewhat forgive him: He's young, and he thinks that by emulating Belichick in these ways he'll be destined for the same kind of towering success. Or perhaps he just got caught up in his "Mangenius" nickname and the guest turn on The Sopranos. Whatever: He's 36, and hopefully he'll grow up in the years to come.

    Belichick is 55, and even though he's smarter than a fifth grader, he's acting like one. I've been a fan of his work from way, way back, through the post-Browns days when he was considered a classic head coaching washout, and despite his media-repellent ways we've had a good relationship for a long time. I want to see him enjoy the fruits of his labor and the legacy he has earned through hard work and exceptional acumen; I don't want to see him pushing photographers or revoking key cards or, worst of all, getting popped for cheating because he seemingly believed he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, no matter who was watching.

    Well, Little Brother was watching, and now he's laughing at Belichick because he's gotten so far under his skin.

    Belichick may think it was the height of hypocrisy, not to mention an ungrateful maneuver by a guy who owes him a career, and he might be right. It doesn't matter.

    As a very smart coach has often said, it is what it is.

    And now, gentlemen, it's time to let it go.
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  5. #130
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Quote Originally Posted by Knucklehead Warrior View Post
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    Although it's likely the Jets would have been stomped anyway, apparently Belichik still felt uncomfortable enough to cheat anyway.
    No, I think Belichick is still pissed they got beat by the Jets in November last year. It will drive him nuts until the day he dies or until The Mangenious isn't their coach anymore.

  6. #131
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Quote Originally Posted by McClintic Sphere View Post
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    With Ray Lewis and Jonathan Ogden possibly out for the year, I would say that the Ravens have the real chance of slipping down this year. McNair is put together with modelling glue and paper clips at this point and their receiving corps is mediocre. I think Tennessee, Jacksonville and even Houston, yes Houston, has a chance of jumping up, although I would have to be shown that their O-line is significantly better than in previous years. Their defense could be very good.
    I'm not sure where you hard that. Ray Lewis is NOT out for the year.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I'm not sure where you hard that. Ray Lewis is NOT out for the year.
    i think that is what people were guessing during the broadcast. but he was considering playing this weekend, i don't know if i an official decision has been made regarding his status.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  8. #133
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    i think that is what people were guessing during the broadcast. but he was considering playing this weekend, i don't know if i an official decision has been made regarding his status.
    Not a tear, just a strain. I'd imagine he'll play this weekend, but I wouldn't expect him to be fully healthy for a couple of weeks. Hes a tough guy.

  9. #134

    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Even if Lewis were out, at least he's goes down knowing he'll probably throw as many TD passes this year as McNair. And McNair might even play in 16 games.

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt View Post
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    Even if Lewis were out, at least he's goes down knowing he'll probably throw as many TD passes this year as McNair. And McNair might even play in 16 games.
    Yeah, he has the weakest arm in the league now I'd imagine. I bet you he can't throw the ball over 50 yards. The Ravens really should have looked to draft a young QB this year..because Boller is not the answer. McNair was a temporary solution that allowed them to at least compete for the time being, but they def need a new QB now.

  11. #136

    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Or at least sign Leftwich. I don't think he's any better than Boller, but what the hell. Give him until Week 8 to learn the offense and throw him out there. Couldn't be too much worse.

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    How long does it take to learn to hand the football to Jamaal Lewis? Oh wait, he's gone too?

    How long does it take to learn "lob the ball to Heap as fast as you can"?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  13. #138
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    The true story of Shady Brady and Bill Bellicheat:

    [yt]0EU1O-hGxgg[/yt]

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    God, I love that. Especially the part about U of M.

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
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    How long does it take to learn to hand the football to Jamaal Lewis? Oh wait, he's gone too?

    How long does it take to learn "lob the ball to Heap as fast as you can"?
    Don't they have McGahee though?

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    That was a great song.
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Haha. That was a pretty dang good video and song.

  18. #143
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Well a weak penalty, tax deductable as well I would assume, but Jay can better answer that one, nonetheless I'm amazed by how this is treated in the press, the stupidity almost with some writers, certainly about "how they would use the tape" and the utter silence about radio freqeuncies we heard something about early on

    As for "viewing after taping": pure BS in today's world all it takes is a bloke somewhere not to far off let's say half a mile, with a good quality notebook and receiver and a radio/mobile phone and Bob's your uncle, the signals are back on the field in a matter of 1 second, plenty of time to react.

    As for the radio frequencies..........see above but also consider this;

    It is relatively simple to intercept radio frequencies as used by sports teams, they will not be high-tech scrambled devices used, so with some analyzing equipment it is not that hard to "listen in" to what is going on.

    IMO they should have thrown the book at the Pats, like in a 5 game deduction no matter what the results, and the same for the coach should he choose to change teams, that is what he is bringing with him.

    that would pretty much exclude them from the post season which is what really hurts and makes you think before you cheat again, 500 K, likely to be "evened out" by a bonus of some sort from the organization means nothing.
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  19. #144
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Don't like Brady being thrown in on this. None of this is his fault; it's highly unlikely he knew what was going on.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  20. #145

    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Dont know if this has been posted yet.

    Pats' Owner Kraft Issues Statement On Spying Controversy
    15th September, 2007 - 12:42 pm
    Boston Herald - “This has been an extremely difficult week for our organization. The most troubling part for me, personally, is the impact these actions have had on our fans. We have spent the last 14 years developing and building a franchise that people could embrace and support. The loyalty of our fans has been the most rewarding aspect of owning the team. I am deeply disappointed that the embarrassing events of this past week may cause some people to see our team in a different light.

    After reviewing the facts of the past weekend, the commissioner has made a determination that our franchise engaged in activities that violate the leagues rules. He has determined the punishment and I accept it.

    I believe that coach Belichick always tries to do what is best for the team and he is always accountable for his decisions. He has been a very important part of what our organization has accomplished over the last seven years. In this case, one of his decisions has resulted in a severe penalty for our franchise. He has paid a heavy price and so has our organization. He has apologized for his actions. I accept his apology and look forward to working with him as we move forward.

    It has been a distinct privilege to be involved in the National Football League since 1994. I am passionate about the league because it represents the ultimate in competition. To this end, the integrity of the game and competition between the 32 teams is of paramount importance to me. Whenever the commissioner believes that the integrity of the league’s competition is compromised, he must act decisively to protect it.

    In addition to our fans, I also feel for our players. I know how hard our players work and prepare for every game and their accomplishments speak for themselves. I look forward to returning all of our focus and energy to the field."
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  21. #146
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Apparently this isn't over at all, as BSPN is now reporting:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3022773
    NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has ordered the New England Patriots to turn over all videotape, files and notes relating to all their activity that resulted in the disciplinary action of coach Bill Belichick and the franchise, according to sources familiar with the details of Goodell's private communication with the team.

    If the Patriots are not compliant, the commissioner is prepared to impose even greater sanctions, the sources said.

    Goodell alluded to the league's position when he made his decision public to discipline the Patriots when he stated that the NFL would "review" and "monitor" the team's videotaping procedures, effective immediately. Privately, the commissioner was more specific in his demands and expectations with Patriots owner Robert Kraft when the two men spoke Thursday, sources said.

    The action is being taken because Belichick all but conceded to the commissioner that his interpretation of the rules allowed him to use videotape of opposing team hand signals for future games but not on game day, sources said. The commissioner rejected that interpretation and was aware that there had been other incidents involving the Patriots in recent years.

    If Goodell discovers that Belichick and the team has copied the files without disclosure to the NFL, the consequences will be significant, sources said.

  22. #147
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    i think i may have reconsidered my position on the matter, this is pretty convincing...

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    This is one of my favorite strings of parody in a long time.

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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    Waiting for the other shoe to drop if we hear about bugs being planted in the visitor's locker room at Gillette Stadium. I wonder why that smoke detector looks funny?
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    Default Re: Pats suspected of stealing Jets' signals

    To Bill Belichick, a Question: Why Cheat?
    by Frank Deford

    I am always touched when, after all the savagery of a football game, the opposing players and coaches mingle pleasantly in the middle of the gridiron. So it is that my lasting image of Bill Belichick came at the conclusion of the AFC championship game in January after his Patriots had been beaten by Indianapolis.

    The Colts' magnificent quarterback, Peyton Manning, spotted Belichick and sought him out in a crowd. But Belichick ducked away, brushing by Manning, refusing to pay homage to the man who had been most responsible for his team's defeat. The look on Manning's face: some embarrassment, but mostly, it seemed, disappointment mixed with surprise.

    Somehow it struck me as all the sadder because Manning and Belichick were not just football ships passing in the night. They are shared heirs of the game. And more sweetly: they are triumph, the children of devotion — Manning, the son of the gallant Archie, who was himself a superior quarterback doomed to bad teams; Belichick, the son of a lifelong coach who toiled in the vineyards, never approaching the glory his son would enjoy. Belichick's biographer, the late David Halberstam, gamely played up this angle, desperately trying to infuse some warm blood into his cold, cold veins.

    Now, though, we see Belichick as not merely surly and ungracious — a pigskin match for the diamond grouch who bares his duplicate initials: BB, Barry Bonds — but, likewise, a defiler of his game.

    To me, in fact, Belichick, is most analogous to Richard Nixon. Both men were so smart, yet so uncomfortable. Both could never accept the success they carved out for themselves. Perhaps, even after three Super Bowls, Belichick never feels that he deserves to be in the best company, for he himself was no good as a player.

    And for both, all so pointless. Everything else aside about Watergate, it wasn't necessary. Nixon was a lock to win the next election — and he did, taking 49 states. What intelligence could he possibly steal from the Democrats? Belichick's Patriots are better than ever. What could possibly be gained by stealing signals from some hopelessly outmanned opponent?

    Commissioner Roger Goodell could have punished Belichick even more harshly than he chose to. But, then, why bother? The shame that Bill Belichick suffers is worse than any penalty. He cheated the game of football, tarnishing the one thing he seems to care for. His genius and his victories alike will forever be suspect. At least Nixon always had China.
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