Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 3
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 template Next
  • #1

    Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

    Perhaps no player on our current roster causes more frustration and debate than our point guard, Jamal Tinsley. With this thread I want to study his overall game, and try and make some observations about how he can improve, how the new staff may utilize him differently, and some possible issues that may arise with him this season.

    I've been very interested to read the comments made by Jim O'Brien concerning Tinsley since he took over for Coach Carlisle this summer. Coach O'Brien has been consistently enthusiastic about Tinsley in the media, almost effusive at times in his praise for the enigmatic guard. Obviously, Tinsley he feels is a player who benefits from a public display of faith and confidence from his head coach, and O'Brien wishes to head off any potential attitude issues with the mercurial Tinsley.

    Offensively and defensively, perhaps no player on our roster has the potential to benefit from this coaching change more than Jamal. Tinsley never had the faith of Carlisle, who never either trusted Tinsley or was too controlling of a personality to let Tinsley call the plays and run the team like a true point guard does in most systems. The tight leash Carlisle kept him under seemed to wear on Jamal over the years, and his development was severely hindered as a result.

    On the other hand, as we all know, Tinsley hasnt exactly earned alot of leeway yet either. His frequent injuries, erratic play, at times boneheaded decisons, lack of ability to finish plays, and matador defense often left Rick Carlisle longing for another option. Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird have always had more faith in Tinsley than the coaching staffs they've hired....now we get to find out exactly what Larry and Donnie have seen all these years.

    I think with the new staff and system in place, the following questions will be discussed among the Pacers brass, and within their fanbase.....maybe some of you can give your opinions and answers below.

    1. CAN THE NEW STAFF IMPROVE TINSLEY'S 3 POINT ACCURACY?

    We know by the system O'Brien will run that Tinsley's 3 point attempts are likely to increase quite a bit, but can his accuracy? I've long since believed that Tinsley actually has very good form on his 3 point shot, but he shoots too stiff legged with little knee flex. This causes him to come up short, and to shoot the ball too flat. This was a problem Larry Bird once fixed in Mark Jackson's game by getting Jackson to "step into" his shot. Like Jackson, Tinsley's defender often plays very far back in this situation, and rarely closes out hard on him. Given that, Tinsley needs to energize his lower base by putting his right foot in motion, stepping into the shot giving him some momentum going toward the goal. I believe that O'Brien will indeed make this improvement happen, and Tinsley has the ability in this system to become a clutch 3 point shooter on open spot ups.

    2. WILL THE NEW STAFF PLAY HIM MORE MINUTES, LESS MINUTES, OR ABOUT THE SAME?

    I strongly believe Tinsley for his body type and temperment needs to play slightly less than he does currently, mainly so he doesnt feel the need to pace himself so often, which sucks the energy right out of us most of the time. I think again, somewhere slightly over half the game is about right for Jamal, maybe around 28 minutes or so on average. I think with less minutes you'll get more production....the question is, can we find someone to play the other 20 minutes well enough for us to win?

    3. WILL THE PACERS TRULY TRY AND RUN MORE, OR AS THE SEASON STARTS WILL THEY REVERT BACK TO THEIR MORE CONSERVATIVE SLOWER PACE?

    I have news for you Pacer fans, every coach every summer at all levels tells his players and fan base that this is the year we are going to run more. You do that to get your players behind you, to get them to work to get in optimal shape, to excite your fan base, and to excite your local media to write it to sell more tickets. Every coach, in his heart, wants to run but most don't have the nerve to relinquish control of what's happening or the talent to run on a nightly basis. Most coaches, when they feel they have a weakness or find themselves playing a superior team, resort to playing slowdown basketball. There will be many, many, many nights when our Pacers will be outclassed talent wise, and an old fashioned coaching staff like we have is likely to slow things down instead of speed them up. Tinsley we all believe will be better offensively the faster and more wide open we play.....the question is, is our overall TEAM better playing that way?

    4. WILL TINSLEY CALL SET PLAYS HIMSELF, OR WILL O'BRIEN CALL THEM FOR HIM?

    Some coaches like to let their point guards call things within the framework of the gameplan. Other coaches (Carlisle, Jerry Sloan, and many others) like to control things more from the bench. If given this responsibility, will JT be good at it or stink at it? Does Tinsley even WANT this responsibility? While I expect the Pacers to run about 40% less set plays from the bench this season, there will still be many instances where they will run a designed set....who will decide it?

    5. WILL THE NEW STAFF USE TINSLEY IN THE POST MORE?

    My favorite thing about Tinsley's potential is the ability he may have to post up other point guards and punish them inside, much like Mark Jackson used to do. If I were Jim O'Brien, I'd do this a ton of times per game. Tinsley is a very good passer from this position, and most point guards are weak defenders in the low block area, and JT should be able to score over them/through them regularly. This is a great way to use Tinsley for a million different reasons, another less obvious one meaning it may make the opposing point guard get in some foul trouble, helping mitigate Tinsley's defensive shortcomings.

    6. CAN TINSLEY BE A LEADER ON THE FLOOR?

    We will definitely see a contrast on the floor between the talkative Travis Deiner and the more quiet Tinsley. Most teams need their point guard to be their floor general, their captain, and their extension of the coach on the floor. Travis Deiner can do all these things, except he just doesnt have much athleticism or ability. Can Tinsley, playing in a more friendly to his style system under a veteran coach finally become this kind of player? I think this is about his last chance in Indiana to do so.

    7. CAN TINSLEY IMPROVE HIS DEFENSE WITH DICK HARTER'S HELP?

    Maybe, maybe not. This leads into again my argument for playing him fewer minutes, so Jamal can go all out hard defensively instead of coasting saving energy. I want to see Jamal extend his ball pressure out to beyond the half court line, harassing the opponents guard getting up the floor without getting blown by. In the half court, I want Jamal to concentrate on 3 things.....keeping the dribbler in front of him at all costs, contesting jump shots hard by jumping and raising his arms in the air to influence the shooter, and following the teams schemes on where to force the ball and defend the pick and roll. I'm personally tired of watching Jamal let his man past him and then trying to steal it from behind.....and if Im sick of seeing it, I know Dick Harter will be too. I wonder what happens if the new staff hates Tinsley's defense as much as I have in the past? Will they have the courage and backing from Bird to sit him down, or will the lack of a better option lead them to continue our pattern of letting him stink defensively with no consequence?

    8. HOW WILL TINSLEY RESPOND TO THE SHORT BUT PHYSICAL JIM O'BRIEN PRACTICES?

    This hasnt been talked about much yet, but there will be a drastic shift in the Pacers method of practicing this season, both in camp and during the year. Under Carlisle, the Pacers often ran long and dull practices, with lots of walk throughs, and were very cerebral in their approach....very detail oriented, slowly paced. The approach Carlisle took was to study the game and try and play it intelligently, and our offensive gameplans were complex. Practices were not physical, or particularly active...lots of teaching, lots of talking, lots of standing.

    O'Brien will take an opposite approach. Drills will be intense and timed to the second. There will be contact and lots of it. Lots of intense physical banging type of practices. O'Brien will be blunt and direct, and won't do alot of teaching and explaining...he will yell it out and expect to be done. Even on light practice days, players will tape up their ankles and expect to be ran and drilled physically, in a short and intense way.

    This will be a culture shock to many of the returning players. Some guys will respond very well to this approach (younger guys, scrappier/tougher guys) and some will not (veterans, players who feel they've outgrown this). Tinsley will be looked to by his teammates to see which side of the fence he falls on....that will be a very interesting thing to read about this fall and winter.

    9. WILL THE NEW STAFF USE TINSLEY MORE AS A SCREENER OFFENSIVELY?

    I thought Carlisle lacked imagination at times in using the "little on big" type of screening action. Jim O'Brien's 4 out offensive scheme I expect to see sets up extremely well to use our point guards in this manner. How this works is to design plays/motion opportunities for Tinsley to make the first pass to another perimeter player, and then to head to the paint to cross screen for players like JO or Ike, putting his own defender in a bind. Tinsley ideally should be a great screener because he has such strength and a low center of gravity, but whether he will be used this way at all is hard to know. If he is asked to do this often, (as I feel he should be...it should be one our pet things to do), will he embrace it or will he protest?



    Ok, so now the question is, what do I think will happen with Tinsley this season overall?

    My guess is that he will be the Pacers most improved player offensively. His defense will likely also improve from terrible to mediocre under O'Brien and Harter, and the lack of a credible backup will keep him on the floor consistently during crunch time. I suspect O'Brien will attempt to develop a very set rotation with Tinsley's playing time, and make it as consistent from game to game as he can. My hope is that Marquis develops enough in this new style to let us play 10-15 minutes per game without either Tinsley or Deiner in the game, enabling the staff to do what I recommend about cutting JT down to about 25-28 minutes per game.

    However, it won't necessarily be all cookies and ice cream for Tinsley. He will have to be tougher mentally and physically than he has ever been. Coach O'Brien will show no mercy on the weak or timid, and Tinsley better embrace hard work and responsibilty, because O'Brien has been around too long to suffer fools easily. I don't envision lots of mind games being played between O'Brien and JT, either this will work very very well, or it won't work at all.

    My guess is Tinsley sets career highs in 3 point shots made and attempted, in free throws made and attempted, and in scoring average. I think his assists will go up slightly, but his turnovers will increase also. I suspect in crucial situations, O'Brien will put the ball in Tinsley's hands and have him try and create instead of calling a memorized designed patterned play.

    Time will tell whether any of this comes true or not.....

    As always, the above is just my opinion.

    Tbird
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

    Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
    1. CAN THE NEW STAFF IMPROVE TINSLEY'S 3 POINT ACCURACY?

    We know by the system O'Brien will run that Tinsley's 3 point attempts are likely to increase quite a bit, but can his accuracy? I've long since believed that Tinsley actually has very good form on his 3 point shot, but he shoots too stiff legged with little knee flex. This causes him to come up short, and to shoot the ball too flat. This was a problem Larry Bird once fixed in Mark Jackson's game by getting Jackson to "step into" his shot. Like Jackson, Tinsley's defender often plays very far back in this situation, and rarely closes out hard on him. Given that, Tinsley needs to energize his lower base by putting his right foot in motion, stepping into the shot giving him some momentum going toward the goal. I believe that O'Brien will indeed make this improvement happen, and Tinsley has the ability in this system to become a clutch 3 point shooter on open spot ups.
    This is probably the best point you made in this post, if only because it's near impossible to refute. Tinsley always comes up short. He either makes it, or front rims it (all too often). I'm surprised Foster or someone hasn't realized it by now and gotten into a position to grab that board.

    As per playing time, I'd like to see Jamaal start the game, come out halfway through the second and sit until the forth quarter (about 30 minutes worth) - of course, if Diener or Daniels are sucking it up, or Tinsley himself is playing flat, you'd have to change plans a little. But I think Tinsley should start and finish games, allowing Diener to provide a shooting spark before and after the half.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

      I am extremely hopeful that either TD or MD or both turn out to be solid reserve PG options. With JT's injury and conditioning histories, I think your idea of playing him less minutes is essential to his performance and endurance.

      I don't know if JT has the will power and maturity for the attitude/leadership adjustment you suggest and that he unquestionably need IMO to move to a higher level of PG play. I have at times been very impressed with his play, but virtually never with his leadership abilities and maturity based on what I see/know of him. I fear that he just does not have the mental toughness to significantly raise his game in this area. Maybe the JOB factor can help here. That's our main hope at this point.
      I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

      -Emiliano Zapata

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

        We seem to be putting an awful lot of hope that Jim O Brien is a better player coach than Rick Carlisle who, until the recent Pacers, seemed like a guy who had a pretty good handle on getting teams to 50 wins.

        Is this Tinsley's last chance... or is it just his next one?

        I've always said that Rick is a pretty good coach.... except when he's not. IOW- He has some flaws that have a potential for problems. Therefore, it's not out of the realm of possibility that OBrien can make something of Tinsley, et al.

        But it's also up to Tinsley and the other Pacers to make something out of themselves. THAT is still the question mark I see. If Tinsley's disdain of Carlisle is the root of his problems, what does that say about Tinsley? It's hard to believe Carlisle was THAT bad for any player. Especially one that was getting minutes and starts when he didn't deserve them (either due to disciplinary reasons or returning from injury).

        -Bball
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

          I think limiting Tinsley to about 28 to 30 minutes a game would be a good thing....not only to limit any potential for injury......but also to allow Marquis ( even if it's for 5 minutes a game ) to shift to the backup PG spot ( behind Deiner ). This would allow us to go with a bigger lineup and allow Kareem/Shawne to get more minutes by shifting everyone over between SG and SF.
          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

            Tins doesn't have a bad looking 3 pt shot...He just shoots it either 2 hard or 2 short most of the time...I really believe if tins worked on his game a little and not been so lazy he could be an elite PG maybe even make the all star game. No time like the present mel mel!
            "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

              Jamaal Tinsley will always be Jamaal Tinsley. Nothing will change.
              The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

                Tinsley's 3 - he did work on it and improved it quite a bit a few years ago, hitting 37% on nearly 4 attempts per game in two seasons UNDER RICK. It was only the last 2 seasons where it fell apart again. To me it's 100% a discipline/dedication issue. He got hurt, he lost interest (thus his uninspired all-around play last season) and it affected his shot.

                37% makes the shot a serious weapon.

                BTW, the comparison to Jackson is apt because he NEVER DID FIGURE IT OUT. He isn't the guy many people think, that had no shot and then developed one. He went from year to year going UP AND DOWN. 40% then a few years of 31% then back over 40 then down to 32. Not unlike Tinsley so far.

                For all the complaining about the 3s that Tins takes, they are always wide open and shots that a PG MUST MAKE. The issue isn't his shot selection, it's his ability to complete the task.



                Posting-up - Rick is the one that developed the PG in the post offense for the 98-00 Pacers, primarily showing up mid-99 and really taking off in the 99-00 season (to the point that the Barkley/Jackson back to the basket rule was created), and so it was no surprise that Rick often put Tins down into the post, quickly no less.

                They would set up and he would turn and back a PG in very early in the clock. From that spot he was a decent passer and had the moves to GET a nice Duncan banker or even a spin to full layup.

                Then he would pull iron on it. Once again, finishing the play was the problem.


                I don't expect JOB to put Tins in the post, that's Rick's style. I do think Tins will be expected to take 3-4 threes a game (more than his previous 2 seasons when his shot sucked) and make it at 35+%. I also think he can do this...no, I know he can since he already has.

                But I think way too much emphasis is being put on how JOB will "fix" Tinsley's game. Tinsley's game can only be fixed by his approach to the game. Will Tinsley get benched for showing up late to practice over and over? That's the more relevent question. There is nothing wrong with Tinsley's actual game or ability. He can get by on the dribble, he can get makeable shots, he can make amazing passes.

                But when he's playing half-hearted, disinterested, skipping practice or at least showing up late, and so on then you aren't going to get the best of what he can do.

                The JOB lipservice is utterly worthless in this matter because Rick didn't publically trash out Jamal either. In fact after that initial start with Tins in the doghouse Rick went the other way and stuck with him no matter what. Remember the Boston playoffs, as soon as JT could play Rick went right back to him as "the man". AJ blew up in JAN-FEB his final year, Tins returned and immediately went right back to starting in spite of AJ's output. It took Tinsley completely flopping for a few weeks to get AJ back into the starters role.

                Rick was soft on Tins according to inside sources, at least regarding his lateness. He clearly played him whenever he could and publically treated him like he was by far the best PG option (which I think was true).

                So my concern is that Tins was reacting to his own perception of a boring system or a controlling system and that really ANY COACH will in his mind ultimately be controlling him. Sooner or later JOB and Harter will have to say "don't make that pass" or "get over here on defense". At that point will Tinsley revert to "the man is against me" mode and lose interest?

                Perhaps Rick was too soft behind the scenes and too controlling in the game, meaning that perhaps Tins will react positively to being ripped into at practice. He might need to actually be challenged more prior to the games and then allowed to act on that chip on his shoulder during the game, ie the freedom to do what he wants in order to prove himself and show the coach up. T'Birds comments regarding the styles of practices is pretty relevent here. I actually think the younger players preferred to learn from Rick and the older players felt they knew this and would rather just DO STUFF (ie, bang and run). Maybe this will inspire Tins to show up to practice on time.


                On defense he just doesn't have great team instincts. I think Harter can help that. But he does have very quick hands and gets to a lot of dribbles and passes, thus the fairly high steals totals. Honestly I could take the poor PnR defense from him if only he was truly running the show like Jax at the other end.



                In summary Tinsley needs one thing - MOTIVATION. How much of that can actually come from an outside source rather than Tins himself is an unknown I think, and that should be a concern still.
                Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 08-19-2007, 12:50 PM.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

                  Originally posted by Bball View Post
                  We seem to be putting an awful lot of hope that Jim O Brien is a better player coach than Rick Carlisle who, until the recent Pacers, seemed like a guy who had a pretty good handle on getting teams to 50 wins.
                  Maybe they'll let him hang those 50 win banners next to the 61 win banner..........
                  PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

                    But there is a 61 win banner ... it says "division champions" on it ...

                    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

                      Originally posted by ABADays View Post
                      Jamaal Tinsley will always be Jamaal Tinsley. Nothing will change.
                      Thats a bleak outlook. However I think Tinsley has shown he can change and improve a facet of his game. Last year he became less injury prone and appeared in what 70 games? Most of us thought that was an impossibility at the time.

                      I think Harter is the perfect guy to improve Tinsley's defense, if Tins responds to his coaching.
                      I have high hopes for Tinsley this season, but I won't be shocked or surprised if he doesn't live up to them, but I am optimistic.


                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

                        I swear one of the pre-draft reports had questions of Tinsley's 'coachability'. Does anyone remember that or know where it might be?

                        -Bball
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

                          Originally posted by Bball View Post
                          I swear one of the pre-draft reports had questions of Tinsley's 'coachability'. Does anyone remember that or know where it might be?

                          -Bball
                          Well Tinsley's talent was projected in the lottery. There were concerns about his attitude though which is why he dropped. I don't know about ever reading about his 'coachability', but I do remember people questioning his attitude.


                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

                            JT needs to know that the fans are behind him. so please cheer ALL of your Indiana Pacers... Even if you don't like them.
                            Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Coachin' em' up: Studying Jamal Tinsley

                              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                              BTW, the comparison to Jackson is apt because he NEVER DID FIGURE IT OUT. He isn't the guy many people think, that had no shot and then developed one. He went from year to year going UP AND DOWN. 40% then a few years of 31% then back over 40 then down to 32. Not unlike Tinsley so far.
                              You need to look back at his stats as a Knick. 6 of his first 7 years in the league, he was shooting in the 20's from 3....mostly mid 20's...pretty pitiful. He was a horrible shooter back then.

                              Once he came to Indiana, he shot over 30% EVERY year with 2 of 6 being over 40%. That is a dramatic improvement and considering the defense started to pay more attention and the games became more competitive as the team became more competitive, I think he figured out enough of it.

                              No, MJ was no Reggie, but I would be far more comfortable with a veteran Mark Jackson shooting the ball than JT who to this day is not guarded except on drives to the bucket.

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 template Next
                              Working...
                              X