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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

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  • #76
    Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

    Originally posted by brichard View Post
    I know in our utter grip of fandom it is hard to look at things rationally, but let's try this on for size.

    Reggie retired in sincerity intending to never come back to the game.

    A few years later, like so many athletes before him (Jordan, Sugar Ray Leonard, etc.,) he decides he misses the competition and wants to return.

    A return to his former team, which is in a state of shambles, makes absolutely no sense at this stage in his career. He doesn't have enough in the tank to propel it to another level and they sure don't have it without him. One more season of .500 ball hardly seems appealing to leave retirment.

    So, he decides to take the best opportunity to win the championship that has eluded him for his career, play in a new city, and engage in competition. If it doesn't work out (ala MJ and the Wizards,) he can simply write it off as a bad idea. If he wins a championship or is in the hunt for one again, I'm sure it will be worth it to him.

    I guess from his standpoint I don't see that he is making a bad move, and quite frankly it is about the only decision that would make sense. We have all felt one way on a certain topic and felt free to change our minds at a future date. As a human being Reggie can do the same.

    I'll vote for him whenever he plays anybody but the Pacers, and it sounds like it may give me a team to root for in the playoffs.

    I think everything else folks are saying on here is more selfish in its conception than anything else. I sure don't want to see him in Celtic green either, but I was glad to see a Celtic (Larry Bird) on our bench.
    Actual post of the mother****ing year.

    Originally posted by Bball
    "You know, in the ten years that I coached, I never met anybody who wanted to win as badly as I did. I'd do anything I had to do to increase my advantage. Anybody who tried to block the pursuit of that advantage, I'd just push 'em out of the way. Didn't matter who they were, or what they were doing. But that was then. You have special talent, a gift. Not the Pacers', not the city's, not the team's, not Donnie Walsh's, not mine. It's yours, to do with what you choose. Because that's what I believe, I can tell you this: I don't care if you play on the Celtics or not"
    Post of the mother****ing year, Jr.
    Read my Pacers blog:
    8points9seconds.com

    Follow my twitter:

    @8pts9secs

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    • #77
      Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

      Originally posted by brichard View Post
      I think everything else folks are saying on here is more selfish in its conception than anything else. I sure don't want to see him in Celtic green either, but I was glad to see a Celtic (Larry Bird) on our bench.


      hey if he wants to coach the Celts - be my guest.
      But the things we as fans are getting ticked off is more about coming to realization that our SAINT is not really that much of a saint - as he'll be doing the things that he said he would NOT do.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        My mistake... that is what Coach Norman Dale told Reggie!



        -Bball
        Yeah, I know I'm always getting him and Rick confused.
        Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

          Up 'til now I've kept my mouth shut on the Reggie Miller to Celtics comeback, but now that it looks like he has decided to return all I can say is good luck to him.

          He gave us 16 yrs of good, memorable professional basketball. And yeah, I'm disheartened by the fact that his alleged comeback will be with another team, but I've had to weigh my dislike for him going elsewhere upon coming out of retirement versus him staying retired and never attaining that one true measure of success any pro athlet seeks. I realized after really thinking it through that it IS very selfish of me - of all of us - to not want him to try and reach that one pinnacle of success - a championship.

          There are fundamental differences between what Karl Malone and Gary Peyton did and even what MJ himself did versus what Reggie is slated to do: 1) Malone and Peyton "jumped ship" to chase a ring. Both players made it clear to their respective former teams that they no longer wanted to be a part of the legacy they helped to create and were therefore leaving it behind because neither team could reach the level of success they dreamed to attain which was to win a championship. 2) MJ simply came out of retirement to show he could still play the game. Reggie, although he too would be chasing a ring, NEVER bailed on the Pacers during his career. Of course, his image will be alittle tarnished simply because upon his retirement he stated - almost to the point of being adoment - that he'd never come back (to the game of basketball) and that he'd never chase a ring. So, from that perspective it does seem like a big slap in the fact to all Pacers fans. However, if I had to chose between "a player's legacy w/o a championship" -vs- "a player's legacy with a championship", I'd rather see that player win the ultimate prize as long as he does it in a respectable way.

          You could argue that Malone and Peyton were justified in leaving their former teams in pursuit of a ring. After all, neither team were going anywhere near the Finals at the time they bailed, and one could use that same argument here concerning the Pacers. But Reggie never publicly bad-mouthed his former team either. Hence, the biggest reason I can tolerate him leaving in pursuit of that ultimate prize. He tried real hard even after the '99/00 team split up to move "his" team forward and to teach them how to truly play the game "the right way". His legacy as the most beloved Pacer will live on regardless of whether he plays another game professionally or not whomever he plays for.

          So, to Uncle Reggie I say, "Good Luck" in whatever decision you make. And thanks for the memories!
          Last edited by NuffSaid; 08-16-2007, 11:57 AM.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

            Originally posted by dubyacop View Post
            OK..now what does this say to JO?
            I hadn't thought about this angle, but here's my take on it: NOTHING!

            JO simply needs go out and do his very best to lead his team to a championship, but do it for YOURSELF, not for a promise made to a living legend.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

              and quite frankly it is about the only decision that would make sense
              What, just retain your dignity and integrity and excel in your new life has been taken off the table?

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                Here are the problems I have with Reggie coming back and playing for the Celtics:

                1) It diminishes a big part of his legacy: the fact that he played for only one team. I can understand him not wanting to return to the current Pacers, but at some point Reg has to realize that he just can't play anymore. Everybody's career ends at some point, and Reggie is 42 years old. If he does this, I have no doubt he'll regret it later.

                2) It makes him a hypocrite for all the bashing of players who went ring-chasing.

                3) There is no guarantee of winning a championship. In fact, it's not even likely, IMO. Boston may get through the East, but there are about 3-4 teams that would probably crush them in the Finals. If Reg does this and doesn't win a ring, he threw away a big part of his legacy for NOTHING. And if he does win a ring, he does it for a city that will never love or appreciate him even a fraction as much as us Pacers fans do. We supported him despite the fact that he was unable to bring us a title.

                4) Reggie may very well flop in Boston. A big part of his success here is attributed to the fact that the offense was designed around him. That's why he struggled so much when he and JO were on the floor together, because the offense was then primarily based around JO.

                It's just a really, really bad idea, and it would be very painful to lot of us to see him don an opposing jersey. It may not diminish what he did when he was here, but it does make him the enemy, and that's hard to accept after all the support we Pacers fans gave him.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                  Originally posted by mildlysane View Post
                  Any takes on what Bird had to say? I wasn't able to listen.
                  Anyone????

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                    Originally posted by mildlysane View Post
                    Anyone????
                    It really wasn't much of anything. Lot's of joking around with Dan. Dan asked him about JO, and Larry said JO has told them he wants to stay. Dan asked him about KG and Boston, and Larry said they look good on paper, like a lot of teams in the East, but they have to do it on the court.

                    IOW, nothing we didn't hear him say the last couple weeks.
                    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                      My biggest concern is that Reggie doesn't make a fool of himself.
                      Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                        This is lowest point of current Pacer history in my opinion. I am just sick to my stomach in regards to this on top of everything else that has or has not happened recently.
                        I have to wonder if Reggie would have went another year or two if the "locker room"
                        was not how it was at that point.

                        I'm not sure if I can get any more melancholy right now about this team, but I'm sure anything is possible. I really could not careless about this team than I do right now. Blah.. It hurts a part of me to say that but it is the truth.

                        The fact there is no :melancholy: smilie just might be the last straw for me.

                        Last edited by Frank Slade; 08-16-2007, 06:52 PM.

                        Why Not Us ?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                          Originally posted by FireTheCoach View Post
                          Good for Reggie.... I hope he signs with Boston and takes a legit shot at a championship, he deserves one.
                          I feel the same way and I won't have any problem cheering for Reggie and the C's except when they play Indiana of course.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                            What, just retain your dignity and integrity and excel in your new life has been taken off the table?
                            1. This is what we call "taken out of context." The paragraph I was referring to was in regards to if he comes back then the only option that would make sense is a shot like this. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my post, but it would make no sense to come back to the Pacers.

                            2. How is playing for another team not retaining your dignity and integrity? Is Reggie now somehow a jacka$$ b/c he wants to play for another team? Is he a thief and a cheater? In any other profession, with the exception of sports, a person is not maligned for taking a position with a new company with such ferocity.

                            3. It has been mentioned before, but I still don't get how this tarnishes Reggie's legacy. It may tarnish it for you personally, but 20 years from now most people won't care. He'll be known for his three point accuracy, trash talking, clutch shooting, and flopping of course... essentially the sum of his career.

                            I just want to apply the same standard to the folks on this board that they are applying to Reggie. You retire and somebody offers you a good salary and opportunity to come back. You aren't sure if you can do it, but you decide to give it your level best and see what happens.

                            Do all of your former colleagues stop talking to you? Are all your past accomplishments somehow tainted? I'd swear we were talking about Barry Bonds sometimes more than Reggie Miller.

                            And the next time any of you change your mind on something you originally said, I want to be there to call you a hypocrite! A hypocrite blasts somebody for doing something they would not do, and they are doing it. It is a far different thing to simply have a change of heart on a particular matter. We have all done it.

                            I know this will be blaspheme but... he's a nice man and it is just a game.

                            I for one appreciate everything he has done for the Blue and Gold and of all people who have ever played for them, Reggie owes this franchise nothing. He has been a great player, team mate, etc. He isn't perfect, but I wish him well.
                            “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
                            motivated and going. Thirty percent is to see if I can get into the opponent’s head.”
                            Reggie Miller

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                              Okay, this is getting ridiculous. There are people who are fine with Reggie coming back, and there are people who aren't. There's no reason for one group to attack the other. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

                              People who support Reggie coming back are not actually Reggie. Bad mouthing them won't change anything. And people who don't want Reggie to come back are hurting enough as it is, it doesn't help to be told they have no right to feel that way.
                              Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Larry Bird and Reggie Miller to be on Dan Patrick Show today....

                                Originally posted by Kegboy View Post
                                Okay, this is getting ridiculous. There are people who are fine with Reggie coming back, and there are people who aren't. There's no reason for one group to attack the other. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

                                People who support Reggie coming back are not actually Reggie. Bad mouthing them won't change anything. And people who don't want Reggie to come back are hurting enough as it is, it doesn't help to be told they have no right to feel that way.

                                I didn't really see anything getting out of hand, just good natured debate. But to your point we probably have a
                                “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
                                motivated and going. Thirty percent is to see if I can get into the opponent’s head.”
                                Reggie Miller

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