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Thread: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    I don't really get these people who just drink vodka and nasty tasting ****, you can't tell me that they would actually go to a restaurant and order a glass of vodka with their burger and fries and enjoy it.
    People's tastes are different. I HATE pickles, but obviously I know some people love them. Same with alcohol.

    I can sit down and have a pretty stiff rum and coke with my food and enjoy it.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    I guess I need a counterpoint to understand the attitude that "drinking to get drunk" is a singularly American phenomenon. Are the French more sober? Germans? The Japanese? The English? Puh-lease.

    I had two roomates at IU: one Canadian and one German, and let me tell you, I can hold my liquor but I was never even close to their league.

    Please give me an example of a country more prudish than America on this issue. (OK, give me an example other than China and North Korea.)

    I think a lot of the "information" in this thread is based on perception. And I think many of you watch too much TV. America is not what you see in advertising and entertainment. Advertising and entertainment do not accurately portray "American attitudes". Supermodels do not drink Miller ****ing Lite, and I hang out with models so I at least know that much. You will not have a central west apartment if you drink Skyy Vodka, You are not a tough burly man if you can actually accomplish the near impossible task of choking down Jack Daniels.

    Americans ARE brand loyal, but I can't believe for a second that they are bigger drinkers than foreigners.
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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I only skimmed your posts, I admit. Still, how could there possibly be a number even close to the real deal? It's not like everyone who gets wasted gets arrested or makes a log entry.
    Are you still talking to me?

    Maybe the title was misleading to you. at no point does the Forbes article try to "count the number of drunks." (What is a drunk anyway? An alcoholic?) It conducted 35 city-wide surveys that asked questions like "Have you had an alcoholic beverage in the last 30 days?" It then compiled all the data, had 5 major categories like "casual drinking," "binge drinking," "alcoholism," etc. and ranked the cities accordingly.

    Maybe the title should have been "the nation's drinkingest cities"
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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  4. #29
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    It's all about the culture.

    We, as citizens of this country, are taught that alcohol is only for adults (21 years of age and over). Alcohol is off limits to those under 21. Here, in the States, it IS a big deal if a person under the age of 21 has some wine or a beer. It is made to be a big deal. It should not be.

    In other countries, where there is a lower age, or even no legal age limit, children are reared as if alcohol is not for adults only. It is part of the culture. Having some wine at dinner is not a big deal for a child in some countries.

    It is all about culture.
    I agree. People make a huge deal about kids drinking when they really should not. I doubt the drinking age will be moved down any time soon, but I could see it going down to 18 in the next 20 years or so.

    However, I could care less about the drinking age. Anyone over 18 can easily get alcohol..and by not being able to go into bars, you save yourself a ton of money. The cost of liquor/beer in bars is outrageous. I prefer drinking at a party or with some friends for cheap.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Why is drinking such a problem? Because it's too often mixed with driving. Why is it mixed with driving? Because most cities and towns do not have a safe, reliable transportation system.

    In cities where trains, busses and cabs are frequent and available, very few people give a care about having an extra round at the restaurant. Either you're in the mood for one, or you are not, either way, you're generally safe.

    In those environments, drinking is immeasurably "safer" than in a city like Arlington, TX, where there is no transportation system and the entire town is one giant suburban sprawl. There, if you have a few glasses at dinner, you have to drive several miles home. The simple idea of an 18 year old having 5 beers and then driving home scares the crap out of me, but not that much more than a 40 year old doing the same thing.
    Spot on, the best way to prevent drink driving at any age is effective public transport.

    The real cultural problem here is that people would much rather use the government to force conformity on others instead of opening a dialogue and educating each other about responsibility.

    Taking responsibility away from the responsible is never a good solution in my mind, whether we're talking about alcohol, drugs, guns, medical procedures, ANYTHING.
    In Australia, the drinking age is 18. The driving age varies between 16.5 and 18 depending on what state you are in. When kids turn 18 they do not instantly start drink driving. My parents offered me alcohol at home from about 14 or 15 onwards and reinforced that I should drink water when I am getting drunk. Education should be available to explain to kids that alcohol is a drug just like pain killers and illicit drugs. It can be easily abused and should be respected and used responsibly.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    As a solution to irresponsible drinking I think a drinking age limit is a poor answer. I think the 21 limit gives it a negative mystique and doesn't serve to teach responsible drinking.
    Last edited by Arcadian; 08-17-2007 at 12:22 AM.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    As a solution to irresponsible drinking I think a drinking age limit is a poor answer. I think the 21 limit gives it a negative mystic and doesn't serve to teach responsible drinking.
    This is the major problem with controlling alcohol in this country. Frankly the 21 drinking age is a joke. What I mean by this is that once you hit the age of right around 14 you can get alcohol whenever you want to. Its not that hard.
    Binge drinking and alcohol related deaths and incidents arise from people not knowing a lot of the risks associated with alcohol. We have the risks of cigarettes beaten into our heads at a young age. However alcohol is largely something that doesn't get talked about a lot. I remember we took D.A.R.E in 5th grade or whatever. That program was a watered down version on everything and rarely if at all touched on alcohol. Show us the risks. Since the drinking age is 21 our first experiences around alcohol are generally around other inexperienced alcohol drinkers. Its very rare you find a person who had their first real drink around their parents or another responsible figure. By lowering the drinking age you not only lower the temptation, but also the give ability to parents to be the first ones to give their kids a drink. This may be rambling and I'm not sure I made a point, but my general feeling is this, the drinking age of 21 doesn't really work at its most fundamental levels so moving it to 18 isn't that big of a risk.

    Also I say this as someone who certainly doesn't drink to get drunk. (Yeah I'm not 21, but roll with me...) I have friends who drink to get drunk and I'll enjoy a drink or two with them, but frankly I won't drink crappy liquor if its the only thing around. So I certainly wouldn't be dancing in the streets if the drinking age was lowered.

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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    An age limit is a nice gesture, but has never been effective to curb underage drinking. A better plan has already been implemented: tougher drunk driving penalties. That will apply to everyone.

    I just know that if you accept 18 year olds into the military, the age limit for drinking looks silly. If anything, even more severe sanctions for drunk driving or drunkeness is the better way to reduce any problems.

    Also, more education on the health effects...

  9. #34

    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    In Australia, our drinking culture is a mixture of English and American (first settlers and during WW2 we had a US culture injection) and let me just say that making the drinking age lower would make a huge difference.

    Our current age is 18 and we have massive problems. Tribal violence on a weekend is a huge problem, drinking driving is a huge problem, underage drinking is a huge problem and alcohol related deaths is a huge problem.

    We had a government statement back in '99 that alcohol related crimes/deaths accounted for 93% on a friday, saturday night however I think to the best of my memory it was 2% or 3% of that where over the age of 21.

    It’s proven that your brain still thinks differently at 18 and that at least from a mental point of view you are not an adult.

    Personally, I don't drink. I used to at a massive rate but I saw a good mate almost die twice from over drinking. Here it's all about machoism, if you don’t drink until you pass out then you are perceived as a weaker person and that’s with women as well.

    No offence but I see this as something we’ve got from American culture. It’s always more/bigger is better in America. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    So taking this into account I see lowering the age in America will just result in a similar scenario than to what is here at the moment.

  10. #35
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Just a couple of comments:

    When did the drinking age ever stop anyone who wanted to get or consume alcohol? In consideration of this, what is the leading cause of death among teenagers in this country?

    When was the last time someone was drafted?
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    You know, I'm surprised this isn't already a standard, but I strongly believe it should be and that it could be (relatively) easily be done:

    Require a breathalyzer test in every car (built into the vehicle; maybe something that you can unfold while sitting in the drivers seat while it's normally tucked out of the way), that if it doesn't test "OK" it won't let you start the car. Annoying? Absolutely. Worth it for the lives it will save? Absolutely.

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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    You know, I'm surprised this isn't already a standard, but I strongly believe it should be and that it could be (relatively) easily be done:

    Require a breathalyzer test in every car (built into the vehicle; maybe something that you can unfold while sitting in the drivers seat while it's normally tucked out of the way), that if it doesn't test "OK" it won't let you start the car. Annoying? Absolutely. Worth it for the lives it will save? Absolutely.
    Car companies lead the business world in cutting costs. They'll never do this willingingly though I do agree its not a bad idea.

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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    You know, I'm surprised this isn't already a standard, but I strongly believe it should be and that it could be (relatively) easily be done:

    Require a breathalyzer test in every car (built into the vehicle; maybe something that you can unfold while sitting in the drivers seat while it's normally tucked out of the way), that if it doesn't test "OK" it won't let you start the car. Annoying? Absolutely. Worth it for the lives it will save? Absolutely.
    And that's the kind of government you want?
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    And that's the kind of government you want?
    The one that doesn't let people drive legally drunk? Uhh... YES!!

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Needless to say, I think you need to think through what you're saying.

    Disagree with me and I'll find your teaching job's urine test and use anything I find against you.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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  16. #41
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    I think we need to install government monitorsystems on all computers to stop online predators. Your every move will be tracked. Think of the molestations it will prevent.

    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  17. #42

    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    I agree with LA. I find that approach a bit Draconian. I'm done with preemptive strikes.

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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Needless to say, I think you need to think through what you're saying.

    Disagree with me and I'll find your teaching job's urine test and use anything I find against you.
    Seeing as how I've never used an illegal drug OR alcohol a day in my life, feel free.....

    As for "thinking it through", thank you for the backhanded shot at my intelligence, but I have thought about it, I do mean it the way I said it, and the online predator bit is an asinine comparison. I am in 100% disagreement with you. I'm not going to comment further or else Abel will need to give me a vacation from the site. Good day.

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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    And that's the kind of government you want?
    There are cars that won't start unless the seat belt is buckled. I certainly think that preventing drunk driving is much more important for society than cars forcing people to wear their seat belts.

    Of course the practical application is another thing - you install what Hicks is talking about and "Here, blow this for me" would take on a whole new meaning.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Seeing as how I've never used an illegal drug OR alcohol a day in my life, feel free.....

    As for "thinking it through", thank you for the backhanded shot at my intelligence, but I have thought about it, I do mean it the way I said it, and the online predator bit is an asinine comparison. I am in 100% disagreement with you. I'm not going to comment further or else Abel will need to give me a vacation from the site. Good day.
    Hicks,
    Don't take this wrong... but sometimes I get the feeling you take things more personally than they were meant to be and snap back a little too quickly. I don't think LA meant to insult you. ...I didn't even see it as an insult at all. I read it as him asking you to think of the big picture before answering rather than make a quick answer. You could still ultimately disagree with him.

    In any case, I read the same thing you read and I didn't come away thinking "Hicks is going to be mad because LA really insulted him there". I didn't even see an insult at all. Obviously you did, but I think it's because you read more into it than intended.

    That's my .02 on the subject.

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  21. #46
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    This is not the first time someone has taken offense at the way I express myself online.

    Sometimes the tone of voice that I hear in my head is not the tone of voice interpreted by others. I can see where the misinterpretation came from, and I apologize for sounding condescending. (Again, I freely admit is a consistent issue with my posting.)

    Please accept my apologies.
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  22. #47
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Debate on lower drinking age bubbling up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    You know, I'm surprised this isn't already a standard, but I strongly believe it should be and that it could be (relatively) easily be done:

    Require a breathalyzer test in every car (built into the vehicle; maybe something that you can unfold while sitting in the drivers seat while it's normally tucked out of the way), that if it doesn't test "OK" it won't let you start the car. Annoying? Absolutely. Worth it for the lives it will save? Absolutely.
    I think something along those lines is worth saving lives. If people knew someone killed by a drunk driver, they might feel differently.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070820/...driving_deaths

    Technology is probably available to sense alcohol in the air and determine whether to administer the test. If you don't drink and drive, it doesn't even do anything.

    I think being forced to wear a seatbelt is a much greater inconvenience and invasion of my precious privacy by that terrible Uncle Sam.

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