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Thread: Agree or Disagree?

  1. #1
    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default Agree or Disagree?

    "Rick Carlisle is very good at getting maximum effort out of his players, and winning as many regular season games as he can. But come playoffs, the weaknesses are exposed.

    Same thing happened in Detroit. That's what many people in the Piston organization and many Piston fans didn't like about him. Perhaps if he worked harder at making Tinsley a better point guard, like Brown has done with Billups, even if it meant losing more regular season games, things would be different.

    But he's not there to teach, or make his teams any better. He only coaches to hide the team's flaws the best he can, and win every single regular season game.

    As Brown and Dumars said - sometimes you have to take a step backwards, to take a step forward. Brown has tinkered with Okur and Billups, at the expense of losing regular season games. Now, the Pacers have the better regular season record, but who cares? Its the Pistons that have home court advantage."

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    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    BTW, this is from a piston fan, I just found it interesting.

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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    I don't think that is fair. I think and I could be wrong that when people point this out they mean it as a dig against Rick.

    The reason most people say Detroit is better the second half of the season is because of the Wallace deal rather than Brown's adjustments through out the season. Or else the arguement would be The Pacer's won the first 3 games BT (Before Tinkering) and Detroit is clearly a class above the Pacers AT (After Tinkering)

    Not to take anything away from Brown I think he is a great coach and does adjust well though out the season but I think it would be incorrect to attribute Detroit's second half of the season to Brown's coaching style.
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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    Arcadian that's a great point: Larry Brown didn't have them this good before the Sheed trade, Rasheed did that himself (and James/Hunter) by adding a key component.

    The pre-Sheed Pistons with Larry Brown as coach were a hot cold team a notch below us.

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    Member Snickers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    I think it's pretty fair to call Rick a "win-now" type of coach. [I'm basing this on what I've seen this year along with bits and pieces of his time in Detroit and as an assistant here] But I think that's the idea: Isiah's job was to teach and develop the core talent, and now it's Rick's job to make this refined talent win.

    And I wouldn't completely dismiss the idea of Rick being able to make players better. Who here doesn't think Jamaal, Ron and Jeff are better this year?
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    Disagree with the original. Rick did "teach" with Tinsley. He sat him and let him watch. Notice a big difference between T-man now and T-man of years gone by? Whether sitting caused him to focus or sitting allowed him to watch and learn, it worked. I'm certain there are assistants that work with the "younger" guys on aspects of positioning and screening, etc. Rick wouldn't be doing that himself anyway. But he did recognize what it took to make Tinsley better and he did it.
    Now Rick's abiity to make in-game adjustments I wonder about. Bout the comments of being a good season coach and a lousy PO coach sound to me like a bunch of whiney players trying to blame a fall guy for their inability to produce during their previous two runs in the PO's.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    This topic or very similar topics have been coming up all season long.


    I'll just say this, if the Pacers lose this series, it will not be because of poor coaching.

    Carlisle beat Brown last year, and we'll see how beats who this year.


    That post from the psaitons fans assumes that Rick did not and has not worked with Tinsley, that is simply not a true statement.

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    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    See, I always had LB as the type of coach that demanded 110% out of each of his players, teaching them how to do so along the way. LB has always been a teacher, he loves teaching, especially younger players, HS, College etc...

    Rick was to come in and finish the job that Isiah had started. to get the team over the hump. The only thing that worries me is Rick plays the same style ball throughout the year when other teams are making adjustments and stepping it up a notch for the playoffs. We still try to get by on the same style. I just worry if that's going to be our downfall? Are we that good to maintain the same pace throughout the year only to come into the palyoffs playing the same way?

    I dunno.

  9. #9
    diego
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    Personally i think the references to Rick not making players better and only being able to win in regualr season is a load of crap. Rick has this year alone taken the same team from last MINUS an all star center and made it 10 times better.

    JO - has learned to pass out of douoble teams better, is acting more as a leader

    Artest - well just look at last year versus this year, techs down, points up, DPOY, team captain

    Tins - started out as bench rider this year...and now is the glue of the team. How is this not sacfrificing regular season games to see what could happen later.

    Foster - thrust into starters role and has been great this year

    Fred Jones - has become teams second best defender, has improved his shooting and displays confidence now


    Point being thats all a bunch of crap. it is fans of a team wanting so badly to be better that they fail to realize reality. Reality is Rick is one of three coaches to win 50+games his first 3 seasons and has now taken a team to the ECF twice in 3 years. How exactly is it that he cant win in playoffs. last time i checked you have to win two series to even get to ECF, which is 8 playoff wins. So what if rick controls the game, the team, etc...thats his job. It was IT's lack of this that hurt us last year.

    For the record, when was the last time Larry brown won a championship in the NBA. NEVER. Does thsi mean he cant win in the playoffs. Giev me a break, i am so tired of this dribble.

  10. #10
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    It's just a plain wrong theory. The team and the individual players have all had better seasons than last year. Who this year has played worse than last year? I can't name one Pacer who is worse this year than last year.

    It also gets tiresome hearing from armchair coaches how they feel that Carlisle doesn't adjust. He adjusts. The line-ups he had on the floor last game were anything but his normal rotation.

    The only complaint I have about Rick right now is his decision to sit Kenny Anderson. I think in this series being able to penetrate and get the ball up the floor is vital, and Tinsley and Anderson are our two best players at doing that. Why he insists on AJ over Anderson in this series just baffles me. But he's the coach and he knows something I don't.

    I'm sorry, if you know how to win in the regular seaon in the NBA, you know how to win PERIOD. That theory just doesn't fly or make any sense. All this "Carlisle is a regular-season coach, not a playoff coach" is just nonsense. What the hell does that mean? You mean to tell me that in the regular season you don't have to make adjustments???

    It's just not correct. Carlisle isn't the most perfect coach ever, but he's a damn good one. What I don't get is how people claim he's not a playoff coach, yet he got his team to the ECF 3 straight seasons!!!! Get a life, people! Think about what you're saying! You sound retarded!
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  11. #11
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    It's just a plain wrong theory. The team and the individual players have all had better seasons than last year. Who this year has played worse than last year? I can't name one Pacer who is worse this year than last year.

    It also gets tiresome hearing from armchair coaches how they feel that Carlisle doesn't adjust. He adjusts a TON. The line-ups he had on the floor last game were anything but his normal rotation.

    The only complaint I have about Rick right now is his decision to sit Kenny Anderson. I think in this series being able to penetrate and get the ball up the floor is vital, and Tinsley and Anderson are our two best players at doing that. Why he insists on AJ over Anderson in this series just baffles me. But he's the coach and he knows something I don't.

    I'm sorry, if you know how to win in the regular seaon in the NBA, you know how to win PERIOD. That theory just doesn't fly or make any sense. All this "Carlisle is a regular-season coach, not a playoff coach" is just nonsense. What the hell does that mean? You mean to tell me that in the regular season you don't have to make adjustments???

    It's just not correct. Carlisle isn't the most perfect coach ever, but he's a damn good one. What I don't get is how people claim he's not a playoff coach, yet he got his team to the ECF 3 straight seasons!!!! Get a life, people! Think about what you're saying! You sound retarded!
    I agree with you - he sure doesn't get the respect of a "playoff coach" when he's been to the ECF 3 straight times .

    As for why he takes AJ over Kenny - it is for defense and size. In Game 1, Anthony proved that he can defend Chauncey a lot better than Tinsley (or Kenny for that matter). Chauncey likes to post up on Tinsley - I'm sure he'd have fun with Kenny too. But AJ is a bigger guy and makes Chauncey think twice before doing that to him.

    However, if Tinsley is hurt and won't be able to give his complete effort out there, I think Kenny will need to make an appearance.

    You are also completely right about all the players getting better this year. Who would have thought we'd have a season like this after losing guys (namely an all-star centre)?

  12. #12
    Member indytoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    Rick was to come in and finish the job that Isiah had started. to get the team over the hump. The only thing that worries me is Rick plays the same style ball throughout the year when other teams are making adjustments and stepping it up a notch for the playoffs. We still try to get by on the same style. I just worry if that's going to be our downfall? Are we that good to maintain the same pace throughout the year only to come into the palyoffs playing the same way?

    I dunno.
    I think that's true. There were very few times during the regular season where the Pacers were playing better than anyone else, yet they ended up with the best record by virtue of being the most consistent. But consistency doesn't count for much in the playoffs, especially when playing against a team on a tear. I think it's true in this series and in the WCF. The Lakers and Pistons had inferior overall records over the course of, what, five months? But they're playing better than their opponents right now, and that's what matters.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    Why he insists on AJ over Anderson in this series just baffles me.
    He's doing it because of defense. He's decide it's more important that AJ can guard their PGs than it is that Anderson can run the offense better.

  14. #14
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Agree or Disagree?

    Why he insists on AJ over Anderson in this series just baffles me.
    He's doing it because of defense. He's decide it's more important that AJ can guard their PGs than it is that Anderson can run the offense better.
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