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Thread: Notice on avatars and sig's

  1. #1
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Notice on avatars and sig's

    It is so nice to have broadband, really it is.

    But..... when on a 256 Kb connection the loading of the board takes time like forever because of the size of avatars and sig files, one has to start to wonder.

    When I'm on my 2 Mb connection I nay notice, of course not, wang bam thank you mam and the page is loaded.

    Did ANY of you guys ever think of those people that are dependant on a dial-up?
    Did you ever think of how you are gonna look at this forum when traveling and you have to make do with dial-up?

    well for those who never tried it and who started their internet careers on a broadband connection and coming from someone who started out on the net on a 1200 bps modem: it is impossible.

    I now notice sigs and avatars that are 1.2 1.4 and 1.7 Mb

    yes you read that right, Mb.

    lemme give an example, to load a thread with 8 posts, 3 of them having this ridiculous sized stuff, plus when it is a sig, usually the avatar is the same size, the total page to load is (avg) 18 Mb.

    On a dial up 56kbps modem that would take ONE HOUR to download ONE THREAD.

    I personally think that it is quite anti-social to do things like that, it shows a complete disregard for other fans that would love to partake in the discussion.

    Yes I know one can turn of the avatars, and even pics, but...... it will still attempt to load the gif sigs, why ? because gifs are usually (why they were "invented" in the 1st place) very small, easy to load.

    It would still take 15 minutes to load the above mentioned thread, don't even go in to one with more postings, open it when you go to bed, and read it when you wake up, the cost is something you simply have to bare.....

    In a hotel that would set you back more then the cost of the room.


    I kindly ask on behalf of my lesser blessed brethren, think about this matter and act accordingly.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  2. #2

    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    Thanks to the PD powers for giving the choice to eliminate avatars and pictures in sigs. Though I have a broadband connection, seeing all the crap got old. I couldn't imagine having to wait to see all that stuff.

  3. #3
    Zesty
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    This has been a point of frustration with me for quite awhile. I've never done any web development, but I've read enough about it to know that keeping small file sizes is extremely important. The animated GIF files from in games and what not are nice-looking, but inappropriate in a setting like this. I don't have dial-up (thank god) but can sympathize with those who are. I've actually been surprised there hasn't been a limit placed on file sizes or something.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    well. i think more of us have dial-up than
    you might think, myself included...i have
    a dedicated line at work, so i don't spring
    for broadband at home.

    i love the site, it is really great, and i read
    it a lot, but it's just too much of a hassle to
    wade through all these images to get to the
    end of threads, so i usually just hit interrupt
    and read the first 2-3 posts.

    so that's why i quit posting, i don't have time
    to horse around waiting for things to load. maybe
    we should consider some limits? just one man's
    opinion.

  5. #5
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    well. i think more of us have dial-up than
    you might think, myself included...i have
    a dedicated line at work, so i don't spring
    for broadband at home.

    i love the site, it is really great, and i read
    it a lot, but it's just too much of a hassle to
    wade through all these images to get to the
    end of threads, so i usually just hit interrupt
    and read the first 2-3 posts.

    so that's why i quit posting, i don't have time
    to horse around waiting for things to load. maybe
    we should consider some limits? just one man's
    opinion.
    Go to your profile section and turn off all signatures and avatars.

  6. #6
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    well. i think more of us have dial-up than
    you might think, myself included...i have
    a dedicated line at work, so i don't spring
    for broadband at home.

    i love the site, it is really great, and i read
    it a lot, but it's just too much of a hassle to
    wade through all these images to get to the
    end of threads, so i usually just hit interrupt
    and read the first 2-3 posts.

    so that's why i quit posting, i don't have time
    to horse around waiting for things to load. maybe
    we should consider some limits? just one man's
    opinion.
    Go to your profile section and turn off all signatures and avatars.
    As i said, this is a B*LLSH*T argument.

    Why would people have to go through the motions, when traveling or like in the above example when at home on dialup but high-speed at work, to change the settings everytime they visit the forum?

    Why is it to much to ask people to restrict themselves instead of abusing bandwidth?

    It's like taking up two lanes on the expressway and telling people who want to pass they can use the grass on the side of the road.

    It is also a great argument if you do not pay for the bandwidth, but once you see the amount of numbers infront of the dot on bandwidth bills, you start thinking slightly different.

    We are not asking anyone to drop 'm all, I am just asking to think, think again and restrict yourself, policing should not be neccessary in a community like this, social awareness should come all by itself.

    I can of course do what every host does, demand that Hicks restricts those files to let's say 10 kb (lower case used on purpose)

    Any idea how much data this site transfers ??

    to give you an idea:

    Top 10 of 8338 Total URLs By KBytes
    # Hits KBytes URL
    1 156120 3.90% 8940165 15.37% /phpBB2/viewtopic.php
    2 100689 2.51% 7601474 13.07% /phpBB2/viewforum.php


    now consider that I host sites with 1 mio hits and sites that broadcast live video and audio, and still this one wins in the bandwidth on this machine by a large margin.

    Also consider that 65 thousand emails a day go over this server, and yet you still win.
    the above is part of it over the first two weeks of May, i.e. over 30 Gb was used in two week
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    Able you make a lot of good points, but I'll point out that once the avatar is loaded, it's loaded for the whole page. Meaning if an avatar is say 1.4MB, you only have to download it once to see it on each post.

    And after that, at least if you're like my setup, the cache stores it and you don't have to load it again on every page.

    But I do agree with you on signatures. They've gotten obscenely large.

  8. #8
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    That's why I purposely re-edited and compressed my avatar to get it as small as I could. I hope 16K is within the bounds of reason ...
    BillS

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    Also, rscarey wasn't talking about internet browser settings; he was talking about a forum option I added: You can set your profile so you don't see avatars and pictures in signatures. Best I can tell, they don't even load when you tell it not to be seen.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    With that said, since it's costing able a ****-load of bandwidth as-is, I'm all for limiting avatar size.

    However, I hope able would be OK with a "large" size so we can have a wide-range of pictures.

    Whatever is the usually kb size of a picture that's 200(height)x175(width), is what I'd say to go with. Depending on which is smaller between .gif and .jpg as well. If I remember correctly, .gif files are usually smaller.

    So whatever the typical file size of a .gif file that's 200x175 is is what I'd say we should limit it to.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    able, would you be ok if the size limit on avatars is 50kb? I'd be happy with that myself.

  12. #12
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    With that said, since it's costing able a ****-load of bandwidth as-is, I'm all for limiting avatar size.

    However, I hope able would be OK with a "large" size so we can have a wide-range of pictures.

    Whatever is the usually kb size of a picture that's 200(height)x175(width), is what I'd say to go with. Depending on which is smaller between .gif and .jpg as well. If I remember correctly, .gif files are usually smaller.

    So whatever the typical file size of a .gif file that's 200x175 is is what I'd say we should limit it to.
    I agree.

    One thing I noticed, and I know able has been informed about the problem, but sometimes I try to get here and it says "Too may connections" or something along those lines. I really have no idea why that happens - but hopefully it isn't because of all the bandwidth being used?

  13. #13
    Member pollardfreek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    Ya, some people's avs and sigs are pretty big *cough*shade,kstat*cough* And even though I have cable and large sigs aren't a problem for me, we should think about those poor souls on dial-up.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    I think 50kb would be more than enough. I'm looking at the size of people's avatars (filesize wise), and the biggest I've seen so far is my own at 38kb

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    Whatever is the usually kb size of a picture that's 200(height)x175(width), is what I'd say to go with. Depending on which is smaller between .gif and .jpg as well. If I remember correctly, .gif files are usually smaller.

    So whatever the typical file size of a .gif file that's 200x175 is is what I'd say we should limit it to.
    Actually, jpeg should be smaller by far than a gif, but you can't animate a jpeg.

    Only problem with a compressed jpeg is tuning it to be good quality while using the least space, but a lot of the various programs do that anyway nowadays.
    BillS

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    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    Would a limit of 40kb or 45kb or 50kb be OK with everyone? able is the one paying for our huge files, and we owe it to him to help him out; he hosts this place and does a damned fine job I might add.

  17. #17
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    I'm not sure if my stuff is within limits, and I'm not sure I'd be smart enough to realize the file size if I was out of compliance.

    Maybe a PM to the alleged "offenders" is all that's needed?
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  18. #18
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    It's the sigs with animated gif's that bog my connection down. Those files are huge, and I'm on T3!!! Still makes my page load and scroll like crap.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    I'm not sure if my stuff is within limits, and I'm not sure I'd be smart enough to realize the file size if I was out of compliance.

    Maybe a PM to the alleged "offenders" is all that's needed?
    Your avatar is a little over 16kb, you're fine. And if we set a limit, it can actually be enforced. Meaning if someone tries to use a file that's above our limit, it won't let you do it and will tell you it's too big.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    It's the sigs with animated gif's that bog my connection down. Those files are huge, and I'm on T3!!! Still makes my page load and scroll like crap.
    I'll see if we can limit sig file size as well, as those are ridiculous I agree.

  21. #21
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    Let me make one thing clear: I said I'd host this forum and not nag about BW usage, I am not doing so, not now and not in the future.

    That said, my call was for people to "self-regulate" thinking of other posters only because I saw the growth, indeed some had a 1.4 Mb gif as avatar, then another one in the sig of the same size or bigger and that is horrendous a thought for any internet user of the "old days"

    I have more BW then I use, and pay for more then I use, that is not the point, but I still send plain txt emails and will never use html for that. To me it is a matter of principle.

    We are all "spoiled" but let's never forget that people in other countries and still a lot of people in the USA have no other option then dial-up, If you live outside of Indianapolis you are not always as lucky as having the telco have a switch capable of, I remember in OK that we were simply to far from the switch (end of the line).

    Those people are Pacers fans to, and I for one like to talk to all, not only those on broadband.

    There are people in Taiwan using dial-up, or China, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, think of them when you set an avatar or sig.

    If you guys agree upon a limit, no problem, If you post pictures like magicrat does, perfect, more so if it is in the header then everyone opening it knows that

    again: it is not me, it is the dial-up users that I like just as much as the other ones.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    How about 45kb limit then? I'm talking avatar and sig here, not actual posts. I think it should still be an open game on posting images in a thread.

  23. #23
    Zesty
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    Sounds good to me. My avatar and sig file together are only about 14K.

  24. #24
    Member Snickers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    I think we should educate everyone about image compression and cropping, etc. The only way I can imagine an avatar picture being over 1 megabyte is if it's a direct link to a very large image, like a wallpaper or a high-resolution photo.

    The easiest solution to that is to save the picture, re-size it to fit within the size restrictions [200x175 pixels], and upload it as your avatar. [I see there's an "upload from your machine" option in the profile now, VERY nice. I've always hated having to go through image hosting sites]

    I think it's a good idea to put a ceiling limit on avatar and/or sig pic file sizes, but I also think it's important to make sure everyone who wants to use a picture in their avatar or sig knows how they can put it there without going over the limit.
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  25. #25
    year of the black rainbow obnoxiousmodesty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notice on avatars and sig's

    As a current dial-up user, I have had some problems in the past week with the larger avatar and signatures images. I think a limit of 50Kb per user would be good, since that's plenty of space for anyone who knows how to compress/alter a file so it isn't as large. I agree it may be a solid idea to help educate those people who aren't familiar with reducing file size on the techniques one could use to do so.
    Take me out to the black, tell 'em I ain't coming back. Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

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