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Thread: O'Brien more hands on?

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    Default O'Brien more hands on?

    I don't know much about O'Brien, as I have never paid much attention to other teams' coaches, but so far it seems to me that he's a very hands-on coach as far as personnel decisions go.

    Last summer, when TPTB were making moves like the Harrington deal, and Cro for Quis, all you heard was Donnie Walsh talking, with a little bit of Bird. If Carlisle was asked about personnel moves, he would answer, "He's a good player, we'll see what Donnie does" (that's paraphrased).

    This year, we're hearing Larry with a little from JOB. But what we're hearing from Larry is, "We went and got this guy because he fits in with what Coach O'Brien wants to do."

    It's something I really like because who knows better than the coach when it comes to what kind of players the team needs. The coach best understands his own style. The coach best understands the team's needs.

    Is this a O'Brien trend, or is it a Bird thing? Or, a combination of the two? Either way, I like this approach to player signings and management.

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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    It'sprobably a combination of two. . .and the good thing about it,is thats how your supposed build a team

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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    I'd be surprised to learn that this philosophy isn't commonly shared throughout all pro-sports, i.e., bringing in players who fit the coach's coaching style.

    I was watching a round-table interview involving 5-6 NFL head coaches and they were discussing something along this same line. Granted, it had more to do with how these same coaches are cut from the same clothe because they were mentored by some of the same people as they came up the ranks from Offensive Line coach to asst. coach to now head coach. As such, they've adopted very similar coaching styles and look for players to fit that style. It's not unlike what Bird is trying to do for JOB - find the right players who fit the style of overall game JOB wants the team to play.

    Now, to be honest we're NOT seeing anything new here. I mean, it's not like DW/Bird didn't try to do this same thing when RC was the Pacers' head coach. RC wanted a strong defensive team that used a half-court, slow-down offense to its advantage. In RC's first season as the Pacers' head coach we had that. Then everything went to **** in a hand basket.

    Finding the right types of players to match the coach's coaching style should be common place. Any GM who's not doing this is just plain stupid! Now, that's not to say a head coach shouldn't be able to work with the hand he's dealt. You're not always going to be able to get all the right pieces (players) you want. This is the position most coaches find themselves in more often when they take over mid-season, for example. But those starting the season right off the bat should have a hand in who they want on their team or atleast the type of player who fits in with his coaching style.

    By all accounts to date, I'd say Bird has done a good job at doing this, as well as, properly identifying the team's weakness and shoring them up. We'll know for sure how successful his FA signings compliment the team once the season begins somewhere around the 20-25 game mark. For right now on paper, it looks like he's on the right track in providing JOB with exactly the type of players he needs to succeed.

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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    For all of those who say RC is better than JOB, I for one say that they are 2 different "animals". JOB is more hands on than RC wich is a good thing.
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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    I'd be surprised to learn that this philosophy isn't commonly shared throughout all pro-sports, i.e., bringing in players who fit the coach's coaching style.
    go back and take a look at the players he brought in last year for rick. can you really say he's bringing in players that fit a coach or did he hire a coach that will play the style larry wants to play?

    Finding the right types of players to match the coach's coaching style should be common place. Any GM who's not doing this is just plain stupid!
    larry went out of his way to force a style and players on rick that didn't fit rick's system. if there is a difference of opinion between coach and gm thats fine... but don't force a successful coach to change his style... if larry really wanted to go this direction he should have fired rick or let rick walk before last year and found his coach then. the team larry gave rick was not going to work with his style and it was pretty obvious that larry went out of his way to complicate things for rick. so i don't want to hear about how wonderful larry is when he royally screwed rick over last season.

    i'm glad he and o'brien are on the same page but don't act like this is larry doing what he can for the coach... its more the coach being hired to suit larry's vision (and there is nothing wrong with that at all).
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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    go back and take a look at the players he brought in last year for rick. can you really say he's bringing in players that fit a coach or did he hire a coach that will play the style larry wants to play?



    larry went out of his way to force a style and players on rick that didn't fit rick's system. if there is a difference of opinion between coach and gm thats fine... but don't force a successful coach to change his style... if larry really wanted to go this direction he should have fired rick or let rick walk before last year and found his coach then. the team larry gave rick was not going to work with his style and it was pretty obvious that larry went out of his way to complicate things for rick. so i don't want to hear about how wonderful larry is when he royally screwed rick over last season.

    i'm glad he and o'brien are on the same page but don't act like this is larry doing what he can for the coach... its more the coach being hired to suit larry's vision (and there is nothing wrong with that at all).
    Didn't Carlisle say before last season that he wanted to run and that he didn't want to call all of the plays? That he wanted more "flow" to his offense? Carlisle insisted several times he could coach that style.

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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB's Breakout Year View Post
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    Didn't Carlisle say before last season that he wanted to run and that he didn't want to call all of the plays? That he wanted more "flow" to his offense? Carlisle insisted several times he could coach that style.
    he certainly tried to do well by the pacers and the decisions. but you don't go to don nelson at this point and say look, no more running and gunning. we're going to be a grind it out defensive team. nellie is more vocal and would ***** and moan. one thing all pacer fans seem to agree on is that rick was very political and rarely said negative things about anyone or anything. larry wanted to play that style and so he as coach was going to do what was asked of him but larry didn't bring in the people that would have suited carlisle's offense... instead he wanted rick to change his coaching style. you don't do that. a GM builds the best team possible and that includes finding a coach that fits your needs not taking the coach you've got and asking them to be something else. you aren't going to ask jermaine to be a PG or Shaq to be a wing or ben gordon to play on the block...

    it would be like golden state, keeping the same roster, bringing in larry brown. it wouldn't work - the parts wouldn't match. i certainly think rick could have coached uptempo just as i think larry brown could coach "defense? we don't need no stinking defense!" - but why should they be asked to change their style when they are already successful at what they do?
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 07-27-2007 at 09:52 AM.
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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    he certainly tried to do well by the pacers and the decisions. but you don't go to don nelson at this point and say look, no more running and gunning. we're going to be a grind it out defensive team. nellie is more vocal and would ***** and moan. one thing all pacer fans seem to agree on is that rick was very political and rarely said negative things about anyone or anything. larry wanted to play that style and so he as coach was going to do what was asked of him but larry didn't bring in the people that would have suited carlisle's offense... instead he wanted rick to change his coaching style. you don't do that. a GM builds the best team possible and that includes finding a coach that fits your needs not taking the coach you've got and asking them to be something else. you aren't going to ask jermaine to be a PG or Shaq to be a wing or ben gordon to play on the block...

    it would be like golden state, keeping the same roster, bringing in larry brown. it wouldn't work - the parts wouldn't match. i certainly think rick could have coached uptempo just as i think larry brown could coach "defense? we don't need no stinking defense!" - but why should they be asked to change their style when they are already successful at what they do?
    I see your point about personnel and style of play being on Bird, but Carlisle shouldn't have been saying something if he in fact doesn't believe it (if that was even the case-maybe Carlisle CAN coach a running team).

    Maybe Bird and Carlisle didn't have a great working relationship. With their history, I kind of expected them to work well together. I'm hopeful from what I've heard from O'Brien so far, that this GM-coach situation will be more successful.

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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Seriously, hands up, who thinks Rick had his eye on Peja, Saras, Troy and Dunleavy? Even with Williams wasn't it Bird who went to the early Memphis games and got interested in drafting him, by his/TPTB own admission?

    Plus didn't Bird say the team was going to be more of a running team? I don't recall Rick saying "boy, I'd really like to get out on the break a lot more, get me some sprinters and offensive-oriented guys ASAP". Rick was in jeopardy of not even being extended at one point, let alone in the position to tell TPTB about some new scheme he had in mind and to demand they acquire players to fit that scheme.


    If Bird has shifted into assembling a team that fits his coach's style rather than changing the roster and then dictating to the coach to use a new style, then that's a positive step. Too bad it took a few years to figure out but I guess that's how it goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    i'm glad he and o'brien are on the same page but don't act like this is larry doing what he can for the coach... its more the coach being hired to suit larry's vision (and there is nothing wrong with that at all).
    I agree.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-27-2007 at 05:57 PM.

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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    If Bird has shifted into assembling a team that fits his coach's style rather than changing the roster and then dictating to the coach to use a new style, then that's a positive step. Too bad it took a few years to figure out but I guess that's how it goes.
    As long as we don't make a trade for Antoine Walker ( one of JO'Bs star players in the past )...I am fine with that.

    Don't laugh......you know that if it could happen.....it will happen.

    Maybe I'm wrong...but didn't Bird express interest in Walker at some point?
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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    As long as we don't make a trade for Antoine Walker ( one of JO'Bs star players in the past )...I am fine with that.

    Don't laugh......you know that if it could happen.....it will happen.

    Maybe I'm wrong...but didn't Bird express interest in Walker at some point?
    Okay, I'm actually too lazy to check, but isn't Antoine Walker a nice expiring contract either this year or next?

    I cannot stand him myself - and always hoped Paul Pierce would actually reach over and smack him in the head - but watching his contract come off the salary cap wouldn't be too bad. (Maybe they could just acquire him and do what the Kings did with Brent Price - have him spend the entire last season sitting at home.)
    Last edited by VF21; 07-29-2007 at 12:53 AM. Reason: typo
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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Actually, Antoine has 4 years left, just like Troy Murphy. Antoine makes about $1mm less this year. So if you think that's worth it, then OK I guess. Dunno how Miami'd feel about that.

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    Eternal Optimist VF21's Avatar
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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    4 years? Ouch.

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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Actually, Antoine has 4 years left, just like Troy Murphy. Antoine makes about $1mm less this year. So if you think that's worth it, then OK I guess. Dunno how Miami'd feel about that.
    I would much, much, much rather have Troy and his solid 40+% shot from deep. Walker can't defend either so no loss there. Troy rebounds better.


    Oh, and Troy doesn't put on the Oliver Twist whine face after every single call.

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    Default Re: O'Brien more hands on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Actually, Antoine has 4 years left, just like Troy Murphy. Antoine makes about $1mm less this year. So if you think that's worth it, then OK I guess. Dunno how Miami'd feel about that.
    not exactly... walker does have four years left but the 3rd is a team option (at least according to hoopshype).

    WALKER
    07-08: $8,547,000
    08-09: $9,320,500
    09-10: $10,094,000
    10-11: $10,867,500

    TOTAL: $38,829,000 ($17,867,500 taking team option)

    MURPHY
    07-08: $9,206,349
    08-09: $10,126,984
    09-10: $11,047,619
    10-11: $11,968,253

    TOTAL: $42,349,203


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