Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

  1. #1
    Redemption. docpaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Noblesville, IN
    Posts
    1,701

    Default Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/ask_the_pacers.html

    Q. I am wondering what was wrong with Darrell Armstrong last season in that (backup point guard) role. He was a veteran leader who always made an impact when he was on the floor. He was also a very good long-range shooter which is another area of need. Will Darrell be back next season and if so in what role? (From Jake in Indianapolis)

    A. We haven't made that decision as of now. Darrell provided a lot of energy last year and gave us good backup for some short minutes off the bench. We also feel that if Marquis Daniels can stay healthy this year, we'll probably use him at the point for short minutes. We're going to play a different style this year where it really doesn't matter who makes the entry pass to start the offense, it's going to be a lot of players. You might see (Mike) Dunleavy, Marquis, Jamaal (Tinsley), of course, and even (Danny) Granger can get the ball up the court and get us into our offense.

    ------

    Very interesting comments which seem to evolve the role of floor general this year.

  2. #2
    when will he ever learn? underwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Seoul, South Korea
    Age
    27
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    our team has a lot of player with multiple talents. but i don't see what real stregth that has for now. if only o'brien could tie this up.

    above all the concers the fans could have, i just wish the best out of pacers.
    Last edited by underwave; 07-26-2007 at 04:40 PM.

  3. #3
    Seize The Day carpediem024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    27
    Posts
    431

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We're going to play a different style this year


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMltKsoDwe8&NR=1
    press pause on the second slow-mo replay around 0:12 mark

  4. #4
    Member pianoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Muncie Indiana
    Age
    24
    Posts
    1,349
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    It's good to hear that someone like Dunleavy, daniels, or granger will be bringing the ball up the court. Dunleavy did play some pg in GS didn't he?
    Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

  5. #5
    Formerly PacerFanInAZ Cactus Jax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,231
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's good to hear that someone like Dunleavy, daniels, or granger will be bringing the ball up the court. Dunleavy did play some pg in GS didn't he?
    Well he cant be worse than Anthony Johnson.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  6. #6
    Member Isaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    26
    Posts
    3,151

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    carpediem I hope you aren't skeptikal that this team is going to play a different style. Unlike the promises of that last year, we actually have a new coach that will coach the way he always has.

    It is hard for me to say what we should or shouldn't do this offseason because I feel like maybe all these guys deserve a shot with a new coach, because personally I think a new coach is a bigger change then a change of 5-9 players like we have had the last couple seasons.

    Then if it doesn't work you trade Jermaine at the deadline and rebuild.

  7. #7
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,996

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Deja Vu. More comments from Bird that make me very, very concerned....just like last summer the heat is getting to everyone's heads!

    This talk of Dunleavy or especially Granger bringing the ball up the court reminds me of the time TPTB thought Al and JO could handle the front court. People seemed to forget over the summer that Al cannot rebound and JO cannot take the pounding. Now, they seem to forget that these guys will be bringing the ball up against a defender, almost always a quicker one. Once again, it will not work.

    As you can see from my Avatar, I am a big Granger fan. But ball handling is not one of his strong points. We need a real ball handler to bring the ball up the floor. AJ was not good at that, but he is better than either Dunleavy or Granger.

    I guess we'll have to have another conversation later this year or next after this latest idea falls flat on its face.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    I don't think this one will fall flat on it's face. While Granger bringing the ball up is indeed a stretch, both Daniels and Dunleavy are very good ballhandlers for their height. There was a very, very small stretch last year where Dunleavy and Daniels were the backcourt, and I loved it.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    BlueNgold I totaly agree. Furthermore I dont think it's a good idea spreading the PG position between 5 guys. The PG needs to be leader on the team- he needs to be in control and be familiar with the players. How would a rag-tag offense of "whoever's got the ball- push it forwards" going to acheive that? It sounds to me like a mess.

  10. #10
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,772

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    I think you're forgetting one of the cardinal rules of O'Brien's offense: The 3 Second Rule.

    This is not supposed to be Tinsley inbound to Granger, Granger passes back to Tinsley, Tinsley walks the ball up the court like it has been over the last three years. This is supposed to be get the ball, either out of the basket or on a rebound, and go.

    Neither Bird nor Obie are envisioning Granger, Dunleavy, Daniels, etal, bringing the ball up against pressure. What the proposal here is that you have multiple options on moving the ball up the floor quickly and starting your offense from multiple places.

    Ultimately, if the pace is slowed down by defensive pressure, then bringing up the ball reverts to JT and the other point guards. However, I think Daniels, Granger, and Dunleavy are all capable enough ballhandlers to bring it up against a defense that's backpedaling.

    Now, I'm not saying that we're going to spend the year going up and down the court like a ping pong ball. What I am expecting is that we get into our offensive sets quicker..with 3 or 4 seconds more seconds on the shotclock than we've previously experienced. That should allow even the set plays to become more effective as the defense is less set, we have more time to run them properly.

    I'm not a huge fan of the O'Brien offense "rain 3's", but I agree with the idea of getting into the offense faster. In this scenario, you're going to need to have those wings helping to move the ballup the floor quickly. Slaving it to a point guard virtually guarantees we'll be playing into the teeth of a set defense.

    We'll see what happens, but I think there's a difference between saying the responsibility of bringing up the ball will be spread around, and saying that we're trying to turn Danny & Jr into point guards.
    Last edited by count55; 07-27-2007 at 01:04 PM. Reason: typo

  11. #11
    streets ahead
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    DC
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,783

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think you're forgetting one of the cardinal rules of O'Brien's offense: The 3 Second Rule.

    This is not supposed to be Tinsley inbound to Granger, Granger passes back to Tinsley, Tinsley walks the ball up the court like it has been over the last three years. This is supposed to be get the ball, either out of the basket or on a rebound, and go.

    Neither Bird nor Obie are envisioning Granger, Dunleavy, Daniels, etal, bringing the ball up against pressure. What the proposal here is that you have multiple options on moving the ball up the floor quickly and starting your offense from multiple places.
    bingo
    This is the darkest timeline.

  12. #12
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,637

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    He was also a very good long-range shooter which is another area of need.
    Jake's question jumped the shark right there, or maybe he stopped watching after November.


    Danny hasn't shown he has strong ball-handling skills yet, but he is supposed to be working on it. Dunleavy on the other hand I have plenty of faith in to bring it up, at least in transition.

  13. #13
    Member RWB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    6,351

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not a huge fan of the O'Brien offense "rain 3's", but I agree with the idea of getting into the offense faster.
    Makes sense because I remember reading somewhere Obie preferred the extra time to break down zone defenses.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  14. #14

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Armstrong under contract? Will the Pacers buy him out or is he guaranteed to be traded?

  15. #15
    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Castle de Verde (Greencastle)
    Posts
    1,493
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Armstrong had a 3 year contract signed before the trade last season. But only last season was guaranteed years 2 and 3 were team option. If he plays he's due $1,219,590.00 for this season.

    If Bird goes ahead and guarantees the contract the Pacers will be within 1/2 mil of the luxury tax. If the let Darrell go they have 1.7 mil to sign someone and stay under the tax, not keeping Andre Owens only guaranteed $ 100,000 if released would give them a 2.3 mil tax free slot.
    Last edited by diamonddave00; 07-27-2007 at 02:45 PM.

  16. #16
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,637

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    BTW, they pushed up court into early offense last year, even after the trade. It was one of the things they did the worst. Countless long passes thrown away or rushed shots before any rebounding could get set up. Often the misplay resulted in a transition TO that led to an easy score for the other team.

    Combine that with their general low 3pt shooting and I just don't see where JOB's OFFENSIVE plan is going to work better.

    The only reason you hope for JOB/Harter to improve the team is at the DEFENSIVE end. Now if they can get Army to stop gambling for steals 3 out of 5 possessions then you've got something.

  17. #17
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,772

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    BTW, they pushed up court into early offense last year, even after the trade. It was one of the things they did the worst. Countless long passes thrown away or rushed shots before any rebounding could get set up. Often the misplay resulted in a transition TO that led to an easy score for the other team.

    Combine that with their general low 3pt shooting and I just don't see where JOB's OFFENSIVE plan is going to work better.

    The only reason you hope for JOB/Harter to improve the team is at the DEFENSIVE end. Now if they can get Army to stop gambling for steals 3 out of 5 possessions then you've got something.

    I completely agree that the biggest plus of the new coaching staff is on the defensive side of the ball, where I expect Dick Harter's team-focused defense to make a significant impact.

    However, errors like those noted above are as much a function of understanding and confidence as it is of skill, if not moreso. It will be O'Brien's main job to get the players to be comfortable in the new offense and understand their roles.

    Now, I was and still am a Rick Carlisle supporter. However, there's a big difference between how players in a slow-down, set-piece offense deal with what feels like "rushing" the offense, and how players feel & perform when the higher tempo is the norm.

    I expect an decent improvement in our offense this year. Will it be a quantum leap? No. Will we average 100 pts? No, probably not. We're not going to be the Showtime Lakers or the Suns. However, we should be clearly better than we showed last year.

  18. #18
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,996

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think you're forgetting one of the cardinal rules of O'Brien's offense: The 3 Second Rule.

    This is not supposed to be Tinsley inbound to Granger, Granger passes back to Tinsley, Tinsley walks the ball up the court like it has been over the last three years. This is supposed to be get the ball, either out of the basket or on a rebound, and go.

    Neither Bird nor Obie are envisioning Granger, Dunleavy, Daniels, etal, bringing the ball up against pressure. What the proposal here is that you have multiple options on moving the ball up the floor quickly and starting your offense from multiple places.

    Ultimately, if the pace is slowed down by defensive pressure, then bringing up the ball reverts to JT and the other point guards. However, I think Daniels, Granger, and Dunleavy are all capable enough ballhandlers to bring it up against a defense that's backpedaling.

    Now, I'm not saying that we're going to spend the year going up and down the court like a ping pong ball. What I am expecting is that we get into our offensive sets quicker..with 3 or 4 seconds more seconds on the shotclock than we've previously experienced. That should allow even the set plays to become more effective as the defense is less set, we have more time to run them properly.

    I'm not a huge fan of the O'Brien offense "rain 3's", but I agree with the idea of getting into the offense faster. In this scenario, you're going to need to have those wings helping to move the ballup the floor quickly. Slaving it to a point guard virtually guarantees we'll be playing into the teeth of a set defense.

    We'll see what happens, but I think there's a difference between saying the responsibility of bringing up the ball will be spread around, and saying that we're trying to turn Danny & Jr into point guards.
    I see massive turnovers headed our way if that is the plan. Wild cross court passes getting picked off or thrown out of bounds. Dunleavy or Granger getting trapped and turning it over. Even Daniels is hardly proven at PG. Amazingly, this makes me want to give the ball to Tinsley.

    At least there's a backup plan this time. Tinsley will find he has very good job security later this year if he's not traded or injured by that time.

  19. #19
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    I don't believe the 3 second rule is about PASSING IT over the half-court line, just hauling *** over it, while someone dribbles it up.

  20. #20
    Member spreedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Minnesota
    Age
    29
    Posts
    2,587

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    If we need PG help so badly, why not give Dee Brown a look?

  21. #21
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,996

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't believe the 3 second rule is about PASSING IT over the half-court line, just hauling *** over it, while someone dribbles it up.
    It's not nearly that easy IMO. They will trap players like MDJ and Granger and force bad passes or steal the ball. At best, it will be painful to watch....and that's assuming they find some way to avoid turning it over. I suspect the only hauling *** we will see is when the other team runs it back for a dunk after a turnover.

    I don't mind unconventional if it makes sense. This simply does not make any sense at all. Just like last year, these almost unbelievable plans will fail. I truly hope this is not really the plan....

    Give me Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Kirk Hinrich, Chris Paul or Steve Nash. Why can't we get a PG like that?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's not nearly that easy IMO. They will trap players like MDJ and Granger and force bad passes or steal the ball. At best, it will be painful to watch....and that's assuming they find some way to avoid turning it over. I suspect the only hauling *** we will see is when the other team runs it back for a dunk after a turnover.

    I don't mind unconventional if it makes sense. This simply does not make any sense at all. Just like last year, these almost unbelievable plans will fail. I truly hope this is not really the plan....

    Give me Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Kirk Hinrich, Chris Paul or Steve Nash. Why can't we get a PG like that?
    I agree except for the last line- why would we want any of those chumps when we have Diener? you sir, baffle me.

  23. #23
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,996

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by DgR View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree except for the last line- why would we want any of those chumps when we have Diener? you sir, baffle me.
    I know getting one of those studs is the exception...but it's not really that rare in the league. We should be able to get one of these guys' brothers at least.

    Seriously though, I am having great difficulty understanding some of the ideas coming out of the front office...or wherever they came from...

  24. #24
    Order more copier toner. Haggard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    498

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    i think Bird is trying to say that the Pacers are going to try to play a team offence this season. Instead of having a 'point guard' setting the offence up you will probably see wing players feeding the ball into the post or to cutters and that is what I think he means when he says 'doesn't matter who makes the entry pass to start the offense' and 'get the ball up the court and get us into our offense'.

    Basically its 'As long as we get the ball up the court so we can run our offence.'

    but then again Larry's words could mean anything.
    Haggard's Blog: Can't Buy a Basket. Covering the highs and lows of the NBL

  25. #25
    Remember #31 dohman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    1,333

    Default Re: Bird comments on Armstrong and the PG position...

    Quote Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If we need PG help so badly, why not give Dee Brown a look?
    I wish we would. He was a heck of a player for the illini

Similar Threads

  1. Armstrong to the rescue
    By RoboHicks in forum NBA Headlines (RSS Feeds)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-03-2007, 08:50 AM
  2. Do these Bird comments mean anything today?
    By Jose Slaughter in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-02-2005, 06:42 AM
  3. Larry Bird comments on trade......
    By Dukins in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-16-2004, 01:18 AM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-23-2004, 07:38 AM
  5. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-04-2004, 09:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •