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Thread: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

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    Member Horseman872's Avatar
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    Default In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    Ok, I know this is probably going to be worse than the last thread posted about LB's plan. But bear with me and brace yourself. I think LB doesn't have any vision as to the future of the team, something we all agree upon. Fact of the matter is, I don't think that LB thinks he has one either. His "vision" or "plan" is to make us competitive and better each year, but he has no idea how to do that. I think that since LB doesn't know, he puts full confidence in his staff.

    He makes sure that the coach he hires is good and smart (come on, if Coach O could get Antoine 3-pt-cause-theres-no-4-pters Walker to be an all-star, what can't he do?!). So by putting full faith that coach is competent and knows what he's doing, LB does everything in his power to support that coach. When Carlisle came, Rick wanted tough players who played in a half-court style system.

    So what did Larry do? He got athletic, tough minded players who could outmuscle other people...and fans as well...But back to the main argument, last year when Rick decided to change his approach to the game to try a more free-flowing game plan, Larry got more athletic wing players for him. Now, this year Coach O wants more 3pters going up. So obviously with our current 3-pt shooting cast, they'd be launching them yea. But they'd be launching bricks like 30% of the time.

    Therefore, LB brought in Rush and Deiner, two pretty good shooters, regardless of they're D capabilities to try to help Coach O in his offensive system. But I think LB is just not cut out for the job, we know he's trying his best and hardest, probably too hard. But he just doesn't seem to be able to do it. He doesn't have his OWN distinct concrete idea or plan, so instead he hopes he can hire a great coach whom he can support utmost and take pride in his (coach's) achievements. Your thoughts P-nation?

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    Quote Originally Posted by Horseman872 View Post
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    His "vision" or "plan" is to make us competitive and better each year, but he has no idea how to do that.
    Malarkey!

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    last year when Rick decided to change his approach to the game to try a more free-flowing game plan
    Who did what???

    You think Rick WANTED to run? You think Rick WANTED Saras? You think Rick wanted Jackson traded (hint, despite the bickering during the heat of the battle these two appear to have gotten along famously)?

    The more the roster issues forced Rick away from his comfort zone the worse the results were. No way he liked having to put 4 guards on the court shooting 3s at the same time in 04-05 and no way he dreamed of Jackson, Tins and Harrington flubbing transition attempts every 4 minutes by forcing the run.

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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    I think Bird is a tinkerer, he sees the little things a team needs to get better from where they are, but I don't think he's a visionary in the least.

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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    i think the question is moot - did anyone notice any signicant statements from bird re: the recent rush and diemer signings?? i mostly noticed quotes from donnie walsh - which would indicate to me that this is still a long way from being larry bird's team.

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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    I like seeing other points of views. I know what you are saying, but I just can't believe LB not having a plan. I could even see him trading JO for Bynum+ filler for cap space just to sign Adam Morrisson when his contract is up. AM always has said he admires LB. Something is in his mind. I do agree that he has put just about full trust into coach obrien, which he should. Maybe LB thinks his job is just to put a team that the coach can win with on the floor. Obrien has a bigger JOB to do than Lb i think. Besides, he has said time after time that he has a vision of the team. I honestly believe him. Every team has rough times. It dosen't mean we have to fire Lb and rebuild. Have faith in Bird.



    In bird We Trust
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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    Quote Originally Posted by slyder View Post
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    i think the question is moot - did anyone notice any signicant statements from bird re: the recent rush and diemer signings?? i mostly noticed quotes from donnie walsh - which would indicate to me that this is still a long way from being larry bird's team.
    ding ding ding - we have a winner!

    I have almost zero confidence in Bird but as long as Walsh lives, Bird means next to nothing.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    I think it's painfully clear that Bird or whoever has been steering the ship does not have a compass. The two headed monster (THM) has flip-flopped so many times I cannot count. A telltale sign of no direction and no vision.

    I will start with the comment that "we don't want any milk drinkers around here". Not sure if that was Bird or RC, but clearly at that time they did not care about character...and the franchise has paid dearly ever since.

    Then, THM decide they want to clean it up....but they don't move Jack soon enough and Club Rio takes down the franchise's advertising plan.

    At the same time, they decide they want to go long and lean and athletic and run more. Yet they deal all their shooters. And they for some strange reason think Al and JO can hold down the front court. I doubted this plan from the beginning, but gave them some rope. Sure enough, THM hung themselves. It was an utter failure and was really the beginning of the end. A really bad strategic decision that showed no vision at all.

    Then, they abandon the long lean plan and make a god-awful trade with GS. Murphy and Dunleavy are the antithesis of their long, lean athletic plan. At that point, it was damage control.

    Now, they decide they want shooters. It all seems so simplistic....like a child is running this franchise. Well, at least they learned they need someone who can spread the defense. But at the same time, they are purging players who actually play decent defense. Guys like Baston, McLeod and Greene are not great players, but they can all play D. Baston and McLeod were real losses IMO. Diener is likely to be a defensive liability. Rush is not known for his D either.

    I don't know about THM. I don't think I trust THM with the keys.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    I really think all this talk about vision is so much poppycock.

    Just so we are on the same page. vi·sion (v¹zh“…n) n. Unusual competence in discernment or perception; intelligent foresight: a leader of vision. 3. The manner in which one sees or conceives of something.

    I have no doubt that lots of NBA personal are unusually competent and could put together a great team. The fact of the matter is I could do so. . . and so could nearly everybody that reads this board. Putting together a great basketball team doesn't take vision, just common sense.

    You take a person off the street that doesn't know much of anything about basketball but has a lot of common sense and they could put together a great basketball team. A guy with common sense would ask, "Who's the best player in the NBA? The second best? The third best? Etc."

    The answer could be any of a handful of players for any of the questions and it wouldn't matter. After five questions the guy with lot's of common sense would say, "That's my team," and he would probably have Kobe, Labron, Wade, Duncan, and Garnett.

    The result, he would have a great team and not know a layup from an outlet pass, let alone have a vision. Vision doesn't matter in this case. You can have unusual competence in discernment or perception and it doesn't matter. All that does is give you a leg up on the people without it. The real problem is acquiring what you want when there are 29 other guys after the same chicken wing you are.

    Donnie's Walsh's vision is to have 5 guys all around 6'9 that can all run, shoot, and pass. Nice vision, but getting those type of guys isn't easy because everyone wants them.

    To be a competent NBA general manager, you need to recognize talent, and be able to manage the salary cap with an eye on both the present and future. And what happens if you do everything perfectly and get everything put together just like you want\visioned and you have injuries, or chemistry problems, or unhappy players, or players that are just immature or stupid at times?

    And just how would you recognize if your general manager is competent or not? Most all of his negotiation's are made behind closed doors.

    The only way that's fair is to judge someone over time by their won lost record. With 29 other guys having the same goal, if their record is over .500 you have a competent GM.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 07-22-2007 at 11:07 PM.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the mind of Larry Bird, and his vision

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I will start with the comment that "we don't want any milk drinkers around here". Not sure if that was Bird or RC, but clearly at that time they did not care about character...and the franchise has paid dearly ever since.
    Oh, it was most definitely Bird.

    As for the topic at hand, I think everybody knows my opinion on this.
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