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Thread: Why is it

  1. #1

    Default Why is it

    With the Travis Diener signing it makes me want to bring up race, touchy subject but I don't think it will be in this case.

    Here is something that I don't understand that happens all the time in basketball, not just on PD but everywhere.

    Why is it that especially with white players that players are compared to others based on race?

    Sometimes it is true but it seems that a lot of people say hmm this guy is a white point guard so he is John Stockton. Or this is a 6'9 forward so he is Larry Bird.

    I remember that Luke Ridnour's profile on nbadraft.net has him being compared to John Stockton. Lol. Ridnour, IMO, is nothing like Stockton. And how about Saras, didn't some people say he could be like Steve Nash?

    It just bugs me how when comparing players sometimes the only thoughts put into it are race and position.

    Oh and one other thing, why is Larry Bird thought of as a guy who just wants white players? I know we have a lot of them for an NBA team but not all is by his choice IMO.

    Ron requests a trade, I believe we wanted Corey Maggette but we end up with Peja.

    Then the recent trade with Golden State is a deal that had to be made. We had to deal Stephen Jackson and I think that Bird saw a chance to get a player he really likes in Ike Diogu and so he did by taking on Dunleavy and Murphy. However if Stephen Jackson hadn't had negative trade value we would have had many more opitions.

    Remember that Larry traded Austin Croshere for Marquis Daniels.

    IDK where i'm going with this. I guess I just don't understand why race is always brought up in everything. I really don't care about race and just don't see how it is somehow brought up as a factor in everything.

  2. #2
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it

    There's probably some truth to it for one, and for another I think it's just easy to say/think it. I think it's overblown.

  3. #3
    Our hero! GrangerRanger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it

    When was the last time you saw a white man (besides Brent Barry) jump and dunk from the free throw line? Dunk over 5 defenders and do some of the things that MJ and other black players did? Travis Diener was compared to Tyrone Lue on Draft night anyway.

    If a white man, 6'7 let's say gets good and is picked number one overall he is compared to a guy in his race because it seems all white guys have the same skill set in physical capabilities. Your not going to compare a guy that scores 30 points a game off set shots and screens to a guy that does it explosvivly like Michael or Vince Carter for example.

  4. #4
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it

    Race is brought into the discussion with basketball because it is the only major sport where whites do not compete well at all. An incredible 26 out of 27 of the top scorers were black last year. As a result, race is something people naturally pay attention to in the sport.

    It's just not news when a black guy succeeds. It is news when a white guy makes it....so people naturally want to know what makes that particular white guy different.. They see Dirk and think....ah, that's the formula. Dirk must be like Bird because they both succeeded. Nash gets the same treatment.

  5. #5
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it

    I'm an exception. People compare me to Wilt Chamberlain.

    As in, "Do you know who you remind me of? Wilt Chamberlain. Only you're short and chubby, and you can't run, jump, dribble or shoot. And you're white. Other than that, you're just like him."
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    I'm an exception. People compare me to Wilt Chamberlain.

    As in, "Do you know who you remind me of? Wilt Chamberlain. Only you're short and chubby, and you can't run, jump, dribble or shoot. And you're white. Other than that, you're just like him."
    I can SO relate to this... mainly because I too have slept with over 20,000 women.

    And by 20,000 women, I mean maybe 20...

    so never mind.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Race is brought into the discussion with basketball because it is the only major sport where whites do not compete well at all.
    Compete well at all? Greece says "hi"

    I'm just crossing my fingers we do better this year. Anyway, maybe the statement should have been in regard to the "NBA" as opposed to "basketball" in general? I don't want to hijack the thread -- just something to further discuss.

  8. #8
    Our hero! GrangerRanger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth_for_Pres. View Post
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    I can SO relate to this... mainly because I too have slept with over 20,000 women.

    And by 20,000 women, I mean maybe 20...

    so never mind.
    I thought it was like 1000 or 2000 women he said he slept with?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangerRanger View Post
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    I thought it was like 1000 or 2000 women he said he slept with?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

    Claimed 20k+.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangerRanger View Post
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    When was the last time you saw a white man (besides Brent Barry) jump and dunk from the free throw line?
    Rex Chapman
    Tom Chambers
    Dan Marjle (young)
    Kirilenko could probably do it
    Chris Anderson (w/o drugs)
    Bobby Jones (80s Sixers)

    It's not as rare as the stereotype would have you think.

    Weren't Jeff Foster and Jonathan Bender BOTH dunking from the free throw line after practices when Bender was going to compete in the slam dunk contest?
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 07-21-2007 at 07:06 PM.

  11. #11
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it

    So Wilt and I do have something in common.....

    We both prefer women.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth_for_Pres. View Post
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    I can SO relate to this... mainly because I too have slept with over 20,000 women.

    And by 20,000 women, I mean maybe 20...

    so never mind.
    So I've never understood what's the big deal in sleeping with women. I personally think it's more impressive if you've had sex with that many.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  13. #13

    Default Re: Why is it

    Here's a thought. The Donaghy point shaving scandal is nearly gone from the news in 24 hours, of course it will be back when charges are filed (for about 24 hours). Vick is still headlines, Bonds still headlines and will be. I consider what Donaghy did a 1000 times worse. He attacked the integrity of the entire NBA. Vick if guilty, just stupidity. Bonds injured only himself by forever having an asterisk by his name. Racism is alive and well in the American media.

    I think comparisons are made in Basketball because black athletes appear to be more athletic than white. If you named the 20 fastest guys in the NBA how many of them would be white? Maybe 3. If you named the 20 best leapers in the NBA how many would be white? It has just become easier to compare blk with blk and white with white. I have also noticed that foreign players are compared to other foreign players. Someday hopefully, racism will die but I am sure there are powers that will try and keep us separate because its in their best interest too.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
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  14. #14
    Banned Big Smooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by aceace View Post
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    Here's a thought. The Donaghy point shaving scandal is nearly gone from the news in 24 hours, of course it will be back when charges are filed (for about 24 hours). Vick is still headlines, Bonds still headlines and will be. I consider what Donaghy did a 1000 times worse. He attacked the integrity of the entire NBA. Vick if guilty, just stupidity. Bonds injured only himself by forever having an asterisk by his name. Racism is alive and well in the American media.
    Say what? So if this was a black referee you think it would be more of a news story? I don't buy that take at all. The reason the Vick and Bonds situations get more play is that those guys are HUGE, POPULAR NAMES and when folks like that run into some trouble of course it gets more play.

    Labeling the American media racist in that manner is about as ridiculous as anything I have read online.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Why is it

    There was an awesome article by Chuck Klosterman at ESPN.com about this. Let's see if I can dig it up. I don't have insider, so someone else will have to post it.

    EDIT: Oh, Boo yeah. You don't need insider:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...sterman/060111


    "This fits into another psychological theory, which is called cross-race recognition theory," Gladwell says. "It suggests that when we mentally process the appearance of faces different from our own -- in other words, faces that we're not familiar with -- we categorize by race and color and ethnicity. But when we process faces from our own race that we're far more familiar with, we categorize by feature -- by eyes and mouth and hair and eyebrows. That's why the old adage about how all black people look the same to whites (and vice versa) is true: When we look at someone of another race, we're not remembering them by using the kinds of features that make it easy to distinguish an individual. We're just coding them as 'black' or as 'white.' My point? In basketball, the 'face' we're familiar with is black. We code black players by feature, so we can make endlessly subtle distinctions between players: There is a David Thompson 'type,' which is quite unlike a Grant Hill 'type,' which, in turn, is quite unlike a Gary Payton 'type.' But I think we code white players by category. They are simply 'white,' and we don't make the same kind of sophisticated distinctions among them. So we miss the 'White Gunner.' Does that make any sense?"

  16. #16
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it

    I agree with that. Nice find.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by aceace View Post
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    Here's a thought. The Donaghy point shaving scandal is nearly gone from the news in 24 hours, of course it will be back when charges are filed (for about 24 hours). Vick is still headlines, Bonds still headlines and will be. I consider what Donaghy did a 1000 times worse. He attacked the integrity of the entire NBA. Vick if guilty, just stupidity. Bonds injured only himself by forever having an asterisk by his name. Racism is alive and well in the American media.
    I disagree, National Enquirer journalism is alive and well in American media. If you noticed the protests haven't been about Vick's race. Rather I think people get a little upset when you abuse what we consider pets and I've seen more people complain why hasn't the problem of spousal abuse taken center stage compared to this. This has nothing to do with black and white and everything to do with celebrity.

    I seem to remember a baseball player by the name of John Rocker who truely was a racist in the news alot. He was white and and didn't have a tenth of the celebrity of a Michael Vick.

    Of course we shouldn't forget that Bob Knight has gotten off scott free. Oh that's right the media showed over and over the famous choke hold. I very surprised because he's white. P.S. Let me make this clear I can't stand Knight and in no way defending him. Just throwing out another example why I disagree.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  18. #18

    Default Re: Why is it

    Quote Originally Posted by aceace View Post
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    Here's a thought. The Donaghy point shaving scandal is nearly gone from the news in 24 hours, of course it will be back when charges are filed (for about 24 hours). Vick is still headlines, Bonds still headlines and will be. I consider what Donaghy did a 1000 times worse.


    Right now there are 6 stories linked on ESPN's front page about Donaghy. There is one about Vick, and the title is something about "let's not rush to judgement on Vick"

    People are calling the Donaghy case the darkest day in the history of the NBA. Do they say anything like that about Bonds or Vick, even with football being 10X more popular than basketball?

    I don't see the "nearly gone from the news" claim even a little bit.

    The Vick story has a broader, non-sports appeal, with animal cruelty, PETA, and all the political forces involved, so maybe that's what you mean. Vick might be getting more play on CNN or Fox, but the sports media both TV and radio is way more focused in on the Donaghy story, even thought there is nothing to debate since everybody thinks the guy is scum. Maybe it won't last long term because of that. With the Vick story at least you have a few people (sort of) defending him, saying dog fighting is bad but it is part of certain southern subcultures and it is not as bad as crimes against people. That isn't my view, but there are some that argue that viewpoint.

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