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Thread: Francis back to Houston

  1. #26
    Our hero! GrangerRanger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    The only quarell I got with Houston is gving up Juwon Howard ( a big) for a Mick James ( a small). Isn't there some rule against doing that? Unofficial GM rule?

    Btw: If they want to win a title it's going to have to be in the next 2 years. T Mac will retire after his deal is over. That was annonced on a TnT game like a year ago ( maybe other places to, dunno.)

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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    I wouldn't mind Rafer. You know he would love OB.
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    I really, really like this signing for Houston. Francis didn't ever want to leave and still has his home there. Plus he and Yao were really developing a good relationship. Plus now they essentially got T-Mac for Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato. Which is incredible.
    Additionally, this will take some of the perimeter scoring load off of TMac. Obviously, it's not like Franchise is gonna be dropping 20+ a night at this stage of his career, but he's still a guy that can create a shot at anytime, can penetrate/break down a defense late in the clock, can shoot a little bit from deep, and can just really do a lot of things off the bounce.

    Over the last year (maybe two, but I watched a lot more Rocket basketball last year), TMac has really become more of a playmaker than a scorer. Of course, he can still put it in the hoop anywhere, anytime....but his ideal and, I'd argue, more comfortable role is now a faciliatator that takes over when necessary.

    The problem Houston had with Stevie/Yao was that Franchise was never adept at getting Yao the ball where and when he wanted it, and Yao was not confident/mature/skilled/comfortable/whatever enough to demand the ball, so they never really worked that well together. But TMac, especially now, is really in tune with Yao's game. If Yao can't get position or gets doubled, then TMac does his thing. But he's always looking for Yao first.

    This style of offense will continue with Stevie there, but now, when the clock starts ticking and TMac has the ball in his hand, he has A LOT more options. He can put up the jumper, drive and shoot/pull-up, drive-and-kick to Battier/Head/etc. for a jumper (which were his three real options last year), or he can just swing it on the perimeter to Francis to let him do his thing, or dribble-drive and kick to Stevie for a jumper, or dribble-drive and kick to Francis who can then re-penetrate at a rotating, out-of-position defense that is sure to leave an open lane for him, a lane to kick to an open shooter, or an easy dump-off to Yao.

    These guys were one of the best defensive teams in the League last year and will continue to be so, even under Adelman. But now, their offense could be really, really potent as well, and not just a two-man game. This could change everything (assuming health and decent quickness out of Francis, of course).
    Last edited by JayRedd; 07-19-2007 at 09:58 PM.

  4. #29
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    heat lost out on yet another fa?! i guess the weather isn't everything... nor is playing with guys like wade or shaq.

    in other news, clippers are still looking for a pg...

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    I wouldn't mind Rafer. You know he would love OB.
    Soup...that Dienermobile shot is.... BRILLIANT!!!!!

  6. #31

    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Additionally, this will take some of the perimeter scoring load off of TMac. Obviously, it's not like Franchise is gonna be dropping 20+ a night at this stage of his career, but he's still a guy that can create a shot at anytime, can penetrate/break down a defense late in the clock, can shoot a little bit from deep, and can just really do a lot of things off the bounce.

    Over the last year (maybe two, but I watched a lot more Rocket basketball last year), TMac has really become more of a playmaker than a scorer. Of course, he can still put it in the hoop anywhere, anytime....but his ideal and, I'd argue, more comfortable role is now a faciliatator that takes over when necessary.

    The problem Houston had with Stevie/Yao was that Franchise was never adept at getting Yao the ball where and when he wanted it, and Yao was not confident/mature/skilled/comfortable/whatever enough to demand the ball, so they never really worked that well together. But TMac, especially now, is really in tune with Yao's game. If Yao can't get position or gets doubled, then TMac does his thing. But he's always looking for Yao first.

    This style of offense will continue with Stevie there, but now, when the clock starts ticking and TMac has the ball in his hand, he has A LOT more options. He can put up the jumper, drive and shoot/pull-up, drive-and-kick to Battier/Head/etc. for a jumper (which were his three real options last year), or he can just swing it on the perimeter to Francis to let him do his thing, or dribble-drive and kick to Stevie for a jumper, or dribble-drive and kick to Francis who can then re-penetrate at a rotating, out-of-position defense that is sure to leave an open lane for him, a lane to kick to an open shooter, or an easy dump-off to Yao.

    These guys were one of the best defensive teams in the League last year and will continue to be so, even under Adelman. But now, their offense could be really, really potent as well, and not just a two-man game. This could change everything (assuming health and decent quickness out of Francis, of course).
    That was a really good post, hopefully Steve Francis isn't as much of a ball hog anymore and he is able to share the ball if he cannot make the shot.

  7. #32
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Houston COULD be good this year... but, let's not forget that all three of their main players have had quite some injury problems recently, I'm not hopping on their "Ride to the Finals"-train just yet...

    Second round, sure. Conference Finals. Absolutely possible. Finals... too much "IF's"" for me at this point.

    Besides, Phoenix reeinforced itself aswell again. The Spurs kept everything together. The Jazz are bound to make more growth again this year and then there's the Mavericks who might be more motivated then ever before to prove they are "For Real"-again and last years outing was a fluke.

    Most of those teams are also less injury sensitive and younger then the Rockets.

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  8. #33
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    That was a really good post, hopefully Steve Francis isn't as much of a ball hog anymore and he is able to share the ball if he cannot make the shot.
    as a part time Rockets fan...I can tell you that I HATE this signing...but I hope that you guys are right...

    I just don't see it. Francis has always been and will always be about Francis. He cares about his minutes, his points, his rebounds, not so much his assists, but at the end of the night, he's looking at the stat sheet to see what HE did, regardless if the team won or lost.

    IMO, he will always be happy with a good stat line for him on a losing night, than a win and his non-involvement.

    Here's to hope, though. The guy has a LOT of talent, but then again, so did Jeff George and Ryan Leaf.
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  9. #34
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    I like Rafer.

    Good contract. Very good 3-pt shooter. And he really doesn't bring that playground stuff in the NBA. He's actually pretty methodical and maybe too cautious at times. But he is heady and can also get to the hoop and finish. Good assist to turnover.
    I agree that he doesn't go Skip to My Lou in the NBA, but I still think he's not as much as the Pacers need. L Head is the level of help they need IMO, a much stronger shooter.

    Alston gives you a serious Tinsley concern because he shot the 2P last year at a 39% rate, basically the same as Tins. Ugh.


    TThreat, I knew you'd hate this. Can't imagine it's going over too well down there.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-21-2007 at 12:01 PM.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    most Houston fans wouldn't even object to Troy Murphy's contract.

    Alston + Sura (retired, expiring contract) for Murphy actually works on the trade checker.

    I don't really want Skip-to-My-Lou, to be honest. We have one of the 5 worst starting PGs in the league, and so we would be adding a guys who was another of the 5 worst starting PGs in the league last year to complement him.

    But if you believe that Murphy is garbage (I don't) then this trade makes some sense.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 07-20-2007 at 10:55 AM.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I agree that he doesn't go Skip to My Lou in the NBA, but I still think he's not as much as the Pacers need. L Head is the level of help they need IMO, a much stronger shooter.

    Alston gives you a serious Tinsley concern because he shot the 2P last year at a 39% rate, basically the same as Tins. Ugh.


    TThreat, I knew you'd hate this. Can imagine it's going over too well down there.
    apparently, it's not going over too bad. I'll listen to Charlie Pallilo on the way home tonight, and see what the buzz is like and let you know.

    As for a trade with the P's...Alston = Tinsley, IMO. They are both Rucker Park standouts who made it to the show. If the P's are to trade for a backup PG, Luther would be my choice. His 3 point shooting improved TREMENDOUSLY over the course of last year, and he's on his way to being a starter before his career is over.
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  12. #37
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Plus, if we traded for Luthor, we'd have to move the entire board to the Shout Box.
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  13. #38
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I agree that he doesn't go Skip to My Lou in the NBA, but I still think he's not as much as the Pacers need.
    Well, that's clear.

    My only real point here is that he's an experienced and, I think, very level-playing PG who's run two NBA offenses effectively in his career and is set to make only $4.5 million, $4.9 million, $5.3 million over the next three seasons.

    If we can grab him without giving up much, it would give us a nice little two-year security blanket so we don't have to worry about having a starting PG if we dump Tins for a rack of balls. And then we can take our time to find the right long-term starting point because we have a proven vet capable of at least running the offense for 30+ mpg witout things spiraling out of control.

    Then when we bring in said long-term solution, Skip becomes an above average back-up, or we simply ship him and his appealing, soon-to-expire deal out of town for a shiny new asset.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    I'll take Bob Sura's contract and Luther Head for Jeff Foster. Rafer Alston is just a copy of Jamaal Tinsley.

    Luther Head , Marquis Daniels and Travis Diener can all play pg , to spell Tinsley or when he is injured. I have no desire to tie up salary room for 3 years of both Tinsley and Alston 10 mil a year combined salary.

    Bob Sura won't play because of his back and has just this year left on his contract. Foster makes 6.175 mil next season Head only 1.962 a salary cap savings of almost 4 1/4 mil.

    Just my thought on any Rocket/Pacer trade. Can't see Rockets taking Troy Murphy's contract.
    Last edited by diamonddave00; 07-20-2007 at 02:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    I'll take Bob Sura's contract and Luther Head for Jeff Foster. Rafer Alston is just a copy of Jamaal Tinsley.

    Luther Head , Marquis Daniels and Travis Diener can all play pg , to spell Tinsley or when he is injured. I have no desire to tie up salary room for 3 years of both Tinsley and Alston 10 mil a year combined salary.

    Bob Sura won't play because of his back and has just this year left on his contract. Foster makes 6.175 mil next season Head only 1.962 a salary cap savings of almost 4 1/4 mil.

    Just my thought on any Rocket/Pacer trade. Can't see Rockets taking Troy Murphy's contract.
    If we don't move JONeal....I would easily giveup Foster to get Luther and Sura. We may suck on the offensive rebounding end....but we will likey see more of Ike and Murphy playing next to JONeal ( which is a good and bad thing ).
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  16. #41
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    If we don't move JONeal....I would easily giveup Foster to get Luther and Sura. We may suck on the offensive rebounding end....but we will likey see more of Ike and Murphy playing next to JONeal ( which is a good and bad thing ).
    i think we're going to suck on offensive rebounding regardless of foster. see the "we're going to be terrible at offensive rebounding" thread for details
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Poor Yao!

    Francis was his worst nightmare. Yao ran himself ragged to get open down low just for Francis to ignore and sling a brick. Francis never did play in the flow of the game. He has too much "Kobe" in him to be a team player.

    It should be Yao or TMac as the first option, now it will be TMac or Francis and Yao a distant third.
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    i think we're going to suck on offensive rebounding regardless of foster. see the "we're going to be terrible at offensive rebounding" thread for details
    I know...I'm waiting for UB to step up and say something. Would giving up one of the few guys that actually pulls down offensive rebounds for another Guard that can shoot 3pt shots be worth it?
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    I've been thinking about it...but assuming that we make no major changes in the starting lineup ( specifically if Tinsley isn't traded ).....would we even have any room for Luthor or Alston in the lineup?

    I'm guessing that Tinsley and Marquis should garner most of the PG and SG minutes....with Dunleavy subbing in as the 6th man ( assuming that he will be sharing the floor with either Granger, Shawne, Marquis or Tinsley )...that should leave some backup 3rd Guard minutes ( between 10-15 mpg each ) for Deiner and Kareem.

    We already would have Tinsley, Marquis, Deiner and Kareem in the existing Guard rotation....that doesn't even factor in Dunleavy playing some Guard minutes as a 6th man. Where on earth would we get minutes for any other Guard that we acquire?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    I've been saying this for a couple years now, but I'd straight up love if we acquired Skip. Dude can play decent defense, loves to shoot threes, and amongst his flaws is still a relatively solid starter.

    Although the resident PD wish has already come true this year and we had to waste it on Travis Diener. Damn.

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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    Poor Yao!

    Francis was his worst nightmare. Yao ran himself ragged to get open down low just for Francis to ignore and sling a brick. Francis never did play in the flow of the game. He has too much "Kobe" in him to be a team player.

    It should be Yao or TMac as the first option, now it will be TMac or Francis and Yao a distant third.
    I don't see your reasoning behind this. If Francis comes in and is a ballhog not getting the ball to Yao then he will be benched. I see this as a relatively low risk, high reward move for the Rockets. Its only a one year contract.

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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    Poor Yao!

    Francis was his worst nightmare. Yao ran himself ragged to get open down low just for Francis to ignore and sling a brick. Francis never did play in the flow of the game. He has too much "Kobe" in him to be a team player.

    It should be Yao or TMac as the first option, now it will be TMac or Francis and Yao a distant third.
    ...Francis rarely "slings bricks". His shot attempts per game are very low, actually. (please don't ask me for real stats...)

    His problem is that he likes to dribble around and IF he passes the ball, it's got to be some crazy highlight reel stuff. IF he shoots the ball, it's got to be something acrobatic that gets him on SC IF he makes it.

    With all those IF's...he normally just dribbles the ball around and off his foot out of bounds...most of the time RIGHT when the team needs him to be efficient.

    Watching Francis play for a team you actually like is like watching a video of your own teeth getting pulled...you keep hoping like hell that something good is going to happen, but you know that it's probably going to hurt.
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleThreat View Post
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    apparently, it's not going over too bad. I'll listen to Charlie Pallilo on the way home tonight, and see what the buzz is like and let you know.

    As for a trade with the P's...Alston = Tinsley, IMO. They are both Rucker Park standouts who made it to the show. If the P's are to trade for a backup PG, Luther would be my choice. His 3 point shooting improved TREMENDOUSLY over the course of last year, and he's on his way to being a starter before his career is over.
    CP didn't cover it...neither did the guys on 610. I switched to ESPN radio, and they were doing national coverage...

    Looking at the boards on Clutchfans.com, though...they are pretty well pumped about it already. Doesn't seem to be a lot of people against it. I sure in the hell hope that this works out better than I think it's going to.
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Here's the press conference held today at 3:33 (Francis wanted that time).

    http://www.click2houston.com/video/13728148/index.html

    I like that he touched on the very thing that I have always hated about his game...a reporter asked him "What's different about you today?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Francis
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    Not really looking to do the flashy stuff like I used to. That right there was just to get on SportsCenter. Now I want to try to get on SportsCenter, you know, winning games
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    Default Re: Francis back to Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleThreat View Post
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    ...Francis rarely "slings bricks". His shot attempts per game are very low, actually. (please don't ask me for real stats...)

    His problem is that he likes to dribble around and IF he passes the ball, it's got to be some crazy highlight reel stuff. IF he shoots the ball, it's got to be something acrobatic that gets him on SC IF he makes it.

    With all those IF's...he normally just dribbles the ball around and off his foot out of bounds...most of the time RIGHT when the team needs him to be efficient.

    Watching Francis play for a team you actually like is like watching a video of your own teeth getting pulled...you keep hoping like hell that something good is going to happen, but you know that it's probably going to hurt.
    It just seemed to me that the Rockets games I watched for the 3 seasons that Yao and Francis played together, that Yao would work his a.. off and would seldom be rewarded by Francis.

    Incidently, in those 3 years, Francis averaged 16 shots a game and connected at only 42%. Not very good stats when you have a big man that can shoot at over 55%.
    .

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