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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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off season thoughts and ramblings

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  • #1

    off season thoughts and ramblings

    It's obviously the off-season, tiresome repeats of positions, no player can do right, tptb can't do right, talents is everything and we can win a title in a few years if we just had a team of rookies and "high draft-picks".

    Please let's get rid of JO and Tinsley because with them this team is heading out of town, it will be sold because we don't sell enough tickets, we need "talent" and it will fill CFH because we would come for one!


    Aye aye my lumbago, admins need to step in top stop trolls (in the off-season no less) and to "restrict" the numbers of threads on a topic which had given us 18 threads in 3 days, all containing the same above slightly abbreviated context.


    I know there are heat-waves going around here, but hey, I stay in air-conditioned rooms when possible and drink darned cold beer when not, I do wonder about the situation in Indianapolis though.


    In my opinion (which to me is important, but I support your right to ignore it or laugh it off) there are a few different factions left at the moment, not counting the dreaming fans of other teams and of those excluding our resident enemies;

    1: The Sky is falling

    Sorry but I know an exhibition somewhere around here with some used signs of that nature, I suggest you make your own and who knows you (or your signs) will be in a museum soon as well.
    I have a hard time taking posters like that serious, and mostly when I do they agitate me, so I generally ignore them.
    This team is going nowhere, it was a lot worse then it is now when they stayed, and the company does well in general, The Pacers is just a "part" of it.

    2: We want a complete rebuilding!

    the most funny to read, definitely the most funny, drop a few vets, all stars even and get instantly better when you get "talents" and win the championship in a few years or at least contend for one.

    Logically (1 + 1 =2) IF rebuilding was the answer then all teams in the league would do that at great regularity, and hmmmmmm somewhere that drowns in logic.
    Now this "rebuild" dream is supported by stating that it will "likely" bring people back to CFH, like there are missing millions, but ok, ask yourself a few questions;

    a: Who sells most shirts, shoes and other merchandise?
    b: How many people on this board "frequent" CFH?
    c: What was last year's average?
    d: How big a percentage does this board make of that?
    e: You knowing who Bynum is, does that mean that the average fan knows who he is?
    f: Does the corporate seat holder, box holder etc want to associate with a 6
    time All Star or a "talent"?
    g: Who brings in the "real" money for the company, the corp seats or the
    bleechers fans?
    (Addendum to g; Bleecher fans are usually the "real" fans, so all respect to
    them, they carry the team, but not the bottom line.)
    f: How many "losing seasons" will it take for the corp seats to leave?

    What "we" might find attractive most likely is not that attractive from a financial point of view, i.e boxholders/corp seats buyers, as a corp seat holder you want to "invite" people to a "winner" and not a Loser or "rebuilder", people do not like to be associated with losing, certainly not in business. (exceptions only confirm general statements)


    All of that is what "sets" the price of a player like JO, main questions being: can we be competive with the replacement and can we fill the seats/sell the jerseys with his replacement.

    If those questions are answered negative then there will be no trade.

    3: Get JO (and Tinsley) out of here at all cost

    These people I can not understand, maybe their thinking is given in by huge complexes or I simply am trying to explain something that can't be explained.
    Jo is not a franchise player? OK, then the Pacers never had a franchise player and well, he is at least statistically the closest thing to it we ever had, let me list a few "stats" and feel free to hate stats.


    In 7 years he is in most top 10's of this franchise, points, percentage, fgm (not fga btw), #1 in blocked shots, high in rebounds, off reb and def rebounds, #2 in scoring avg (0.09% behind Big Mac) most All Star elections, most All NBA and the only player to get all NBA 2nd.


    That is in only 7 years, not 13 or 18, just 7.


    He has won more additional awards then any player here ever, for community service and so forth, so he has been a "model citizen"
    He has taken a high school girl to the Prom making her grades a demand for doing so, not a 5 minute appearance, a whole night.
    He is by far the best player we have and no trade except for KG would make us "improve" on that.



    And finally:
    4: Get rid of DW (and some want LB out (to))

    Yeah because DW has proven he can not do the job, loses money for the company every year and has made this team a mess with his acquisitions over the past 4 years and not firing his friend the coach.



    Reggie who is revered by JO and calls JO his best friend on the team the last 4 years, deferred way to much, yet everybody has forgotten that, made JO "leader" and "led by example" when people talk about his leadership, yet JO, the best player by far, one with a great attitude towards community, stands for values, and by far the best player on the team, works very hard, came/comes back after every off-season with an addition to his game, never complained about the coach in public, supported the coach (in public) is not an example?


    Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking when they write all that stuff, where they see the team, the Pacers and what goes with it, but only sometimes.

    To me every player on this team, whether I like them or not (should I choose to "dislike" someone I do not know personally) is an "Indiana Pacer", until they leave or get traded, till then I'm all for having them play at the peak of their ability and letting them know I support them.

    The number 1 rule of a trade should be that it should "improve" your team, NOW, not in (hopefully) 2 or 3 years time, without a "corporate face" in front of this team, the real money that supports this team might leave, and then we might even see the sky come down.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

    Originally posted by able View Post
    3: Get JO (and Tinsley) out of here at all cost

    These people I can not understand, maybe their thinking is given in by huge complexes or I simply am trying to explain something that can't be explained.
    Jo is not a franchise player? OK, then the Pacers never had a franchise player and well, he is at least statistically the closest thing to it we ever had, let me list a few "stats" and feel free to hate stats.


    In 7 years he is in most top 10's of this franchise, points, percentage, fgm (not fga btw), #1 in blocked shots, high in rebounds, off reb and def rebounds, #2 in scoring avg (0.09% behind Big Mac) most All Star elections, most All NBA and the only player to get all NBA 2nd.


    That is in only 7 years, not 13 or 18, just 7.


    He has won more additional awards then any player here ever, for community service and so forth, so he has been a "model citizen"
    He has taken a high school girl to the Prom making her grades a demand for doing so, not a 5 minute appearance, a whole night.
    He is by far the best player we have and no trade except for KG would make us "improve" on that.
    Ummm, you didn't say anything nice about Tinsley...

    But I agree with everything. Especially about Walsh and Bird. I mean, they've made some bad moves, but really no terrible ones. The Golden State trade, well, we all (even Ajbry) thought it would work out better than it did. Also, Harrington for a pick would have been a lot easier to swallow had we taken the 6th seed or so, where everyone thought we'd be.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

      Abel,

      You make many great points in a very good post. But I do have a question for you: Did trading Dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal make us a better team in 2001? Are all trades teams make (that are not considered bad) helpful immediately?

      Also, I just wanted to say that while I hear things behind the scenes that I do not like to hear about JO and some of his choices/actions, I thank you for reminding me of all the good that he does; it's refreshing.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

        Originally posted by Mal View Post
        Abel,

        You make many great points in a very good post. But I do have a question for you: Did trading Dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal make us a better team in 2001? Are all trades teams make (that are not considered bad) helpful immediately?

        Also, I just wanted to say that while I hear things behind the scenes that I do not like to hear about JO and some of his choices/actions, I thank you for reminding me of all the good that he does; it's refreshing.
        Now I was told by my parents to not answer a question with a question, but in this case the answer to the question is the answer to another question:

        How "free" were we in trading DD?

        The answer is not at all, he wanted out and made it clear publically, he thought he would get more money that way.

        DW's hand was more or less forced there and he was somewhat lucky by the outcome.

        On top of which (sorry Peck) it should be clear that no matter how good DD was, he never was of the caliber of JO in fact even on that team he was not the #1 which JO is right now.
        So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

        If you've done 6 impossible things today?
        Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

          Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
          Ummm, you didn't say anything nice about Tinsley...

          But I agree with everything. Especially about Walsh and Bird. I mean, they've made some bad moves, but really no terrible ones. The Golden State trade, well, we all (even Ajbry) thought it would work out better than it did. Also, Harrington for a pick would have been a lot easier to swallow had we taken the 6th seed or so, where everyone thought we'd be.
          LOL, I have been called a fanboy over Tinsley, so I am more carefull there

          I believe that if we keep him he will be back to his rookie stats the coming year, he still averaged allmost 7 APG last year, missed very few games and played injured to many minutes because there hardly was another option, which influenced his shooting percentage, also he does not need to shoot, he can create for others, which is what he's best at.

          I can see no way we can improve on him via a trade, unless we overpay and we've done that enough the last couple of years.
          So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

          If you've done 6 impossible things today?
          Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

            I really agree about the owners. Especially Donnie, as much good as he has done with this franchise for so long and a few shaky years (and ya know, the brawl MAYBE kinda factored into some of this instability, im just throwing it out there) and people say "FIRE ALL THE OWNERS" ----"OFF WITH THEIR HEADS" and what not. Blow it up and start from scratch!

            Every franchise goes through these bad periods and we pacer fans are spoiled by the consistent level of success we have had... ring or no ring. Im not sure if larry is to blame because I dont know who is really running the show, BUT, can we at least reserve judgement till the brawl fallout is completily finished with (which is probably about... now)

            Of course right before I read this post i made a long post about why we should trade jermaine - but only because I think it would improve the team. trading players "at all costs" is exactly what got us into a bad situation in the first place. I honestly believe Bynum will be as good or better than oneal, and well... nobody really knows. uhhhh.... I give up.
            Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 07-17-2007, 09:12 PM.
            "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

            - ilive4sports

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

              Originally posted by able View Post
              LOL, I have been called a fanboy over Tinsley, so I am more carefull there

              I believe that if we keep him he will be back to his rookie stats the coming year, he still averaged allmost 7 APG last year, missed very few games and played injured to many minutes because there hardly was another option, which influenced his shooting percentage, also he does not need to shoot, he can create for others, which is what he's best at.

              I can see no way we can improve on him via a trade, unless we overpay and we've done that enough the last couple of years.

              I agree here, trading tinsley for peanuts is a horrible idea. He has a lot of talent (at least that he showed his rookie year), and obie might just be able to tap into it. who knows... its worth a shot.

              thats the kind of rebuilding im against, you have to make smart moves... you dont just blow it all up and pray to win the lottery.
              "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

              - ilive4sports

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

                I fall into category 5. The people who want to stand pat. Let the new coaching staff get going. Let the plethora of new faces over the last year and a half get to know each other on a first name basis. Then see where the team stands.
                I'm in these bands
                The Humans
                Dr. Goldfoot
                The Bar Brawlers
                ME

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

                  I don't care what approach the Pacers take at this point, I just hope whatever route they choose that they do things right and make it work. Stand pat, rebuild, reload, whatever. I think any of those options CAN work if managed correctly....maybe a pinch of luck too. Commit to a vision and see it through.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

                    I fall under category 1, but I'm trying Ringo, I'm trying real hard to be a cotton-candy guy.
                    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

                      Originally posted by Kegboy View Post
                      I fall under category 1, but I'm trying Ringo, I'm trying real hard to be a cotton-candy guy.

                      I was gonna post a picture of the "Bad MotherF-er wallet here but thought better of it. Being im under 10 posts id probably be banned.
                      "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

                      - ilive4sports

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

                        Originally posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
                        I fall into category 5. The people who want to stand pat. Let the new coaching staff get going. Let the plethora of new faces over the last year and a half get to know each other on a first name basis. Then see where the team stands.
                        I feel the same way.


                        And a very good post Able!
                        "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG" - Carol "The Walking Dead"

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

                          At this point I feel as if my allegiances are tied between all of the options, including the mysteriously absent #5 (the Bring Back Jack brigade).

                          However, all of your points are justified but you cannot be too shocked at the varying degrees of pessimism. We've all rode together through this recent bull**** and a lot of the Pacers faithful definitely want some drastic, maybe frivolous, alterations to the team and organization.

                          #3 was nicely said in particular. Any trade that does not net somebody of JO's caliber isn't going to leave this franchise in any better hands than it already is (or isn't). Potential is for losers.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

                            Originally posted by Hoop View Post
                            I feel the same way.


                            And a very good post Able!
                            Agreed on both counts.
                            PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: off season thoughts and ramblings

                              Originally posted by able View Post
                              It's obviously the off-season, tiresome repeats of positions, no player can do right, tptb can't do right, talents is everything and we can win a title in a few years if we just had a team of rookies and "high draft-picks".

                              Please let's get rid of JO and Tinsley because with them this team is heading out of town, it will be sold because we don't sell enough tickets, we need "talent" and it will fill CFH because we would come for one!


                              Aye aye my lumbago, admins need to step in top stop trolls (in the off-season no less) and to "restrict" the numbers of threads on a topic which had given us 18 threads in 3 days, all containing the same above slightly abbreviated context.


                              I know there are heat-waves going around here, but hey, I stay in air-conditioned rooms when possible and drink darned cold beer when not, I do wonder about the situation in Indianapolis though.


                              In my opinion (which to me is important, but I support your right to ignore it or laugh it off) there are a few different factions left at the moment, not counting the dreaming fans of other teams and of those excluding our resident enemies;

                              1: The Sky is falling

                              Sorry but I know an exhibition somewhere around here with some used signs of that nature, I suggest you make your own and who knows you (or your signs) will be in a museum soon as well.
                              I have a hard time taking posters like that serious, and mostly when I do they agitate me, so I generally ignore them.
                              This team is going nowhere, it was a lot worse then it is now when they stayed, and the company does well in general, The Pacers is just a "part" of it.

                              2: We want a complete rebuilding!

                              the most funny to read, definitely the most funny, drop a few vets, all stars even and get instantly better when you get "talents" and win the championship in a few years or at least contend for one.

                              Logically (1 + 1 =2) IF rebuilding was the answer then all teams in the league would do that at great regularity, and hmmmmmm somewhere that drowns in logic.
                              Now this "rebuild" dream is supported by stating that it will "likely" bring people back to CFH, like there are missing millions, but ok, ask yourself a few questions;

                              a: Who sells most shirts, shoes and other merchandise?
                              b: How many people on this board "frequent" CFH?
                              c: What was last year's average?
                              d: How big a percentage does this board make of that?
                              e: You knowing who Bynum is, does that mean that the average fan knows who he is?
                              f: Does the corporate seat holder, box holder etc want to associate with a 6
                              time All Star or a "talent"?
                              g: Who brings in the "real" money for the company, the corp seats or the
                              bleechers fans?
                              (Addendum to g; Bleecher fans are usually the "real" fans, so all respect to
                              them, they carry the team, but not the bottom line.)
                              f: How many "losing seasons" will it take for the corp seats to leave?

                              What "we" might find attractive most likely is not that attractive from a financial point of view, i.e boxholders/corp seats buyers, as a corp seat holder you want to "invite" people to a "winner" and not a Loser or "rebuilder", people do not like to be associated with losing, certainly not in business. (exceptions only confirm general statements)


                              All of that is what "sets" the price of a player like JO, main questions being: can we be competive with the replacement and can we fill the seats/sell the jerseys with his replacement.

                              If those questions are answered negative then there will be no trade.

                              3: Get JO (and Tinsley) out of here at all cost

                              These people I can not understand, maybe their thinking is given in by huge complexes or I simply am trying to explain something that can't be explained.
                              Jo is not a franchise player? OK, then the Pacers never had a franchise player and well, he is at least statistically the closest thing to it we ever had, let me list a few "stats" and feel free to hate stats.


                              In 7 years he is in most top 10's of this franchise, points, percentage, fgm (not fga btw), #1 in blocked shots, high in rebounds, off reb and def rebounds, #2 in scoring avg (0.09% behind Big Mac) most All Star elections, most All NBA and the only player to get all NBA 2nd.


                              That is in only 7 years, not 13 or 18, just 7.


                              He has won more additional awards then any player here ever, for community service and so forth, so he has been a "model citizen"
                              He has taken a high school girl to the Prom making her grades a demand for doing so, not a 5 minute appearance, a whole night.
                              He is by far the best player we have and no trade except for KG would make us "improve" on that.



                              And finally:
                              4: Get rid of DW (and some want LB out (to))

                              Yeah because DW has proven he can not do the job, loses money for the company every year and has made this team a mess with his acquisitions over the past 4 years and not firing his friend the coach.



                              Reggie who is revered by JO and calls JO his best friend on the team the last 4 years, deferred way to much, yet everybody has forgotten that, made JO "leader" and "led by example" when people talk about his leadership, yet JO, the best player by far, one with a great attitude towards community, stands for values, and by far the best player on the team, works very hard, came/comes back after every off-season with an addition to his game, never complained about the coach in public, supported the coach (in public) is not an example?


                              Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking when they write all that stuff, where they see the team, the Pacers and what goes with it, but only sometimes.

                              To me every player on this team, whether I like them or not (should I choose to "dislike" someone I do not know personally) is an "Indiana Pacer", until they leave or get traded, till then I'm all for having them play at the peak of their ability and letting them know I support them.

                              The number 1 rule of a trade should be that it should "improve" your team, NOW, not in (hopefully) 2 or 3 years time, without a "corporate face" in front of this team, the real money that supports this team might leave, and then we might even see the sky come down.

                              Needless to say I disagree with just about every word you wrote, but you wrote them so well that I can only in response.

                              No, in all seriousness it is good to have you put out a post again. I won't try and dump all over it with my own views, I'll just say that I do fall in that catagory (whatever one it is) that we need addittion by subtraction on our team.

                              No, I'm not talking about dumping down talent just to try and bottom out to rise up again like a phoenix. I'm talking specifically about getting rid of Jermaine O'Neal. I would really like to see Jamaal on the first bus out of town as well but I am willing to see how he works in the new system.


                              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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