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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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NBA Daily Per Diems

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  • #16
    Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

    Originally posted by bulldog View Post
    You can mandate practice. Why can't you mandate attendance at an all-you-can-eat grilled chicken and veggies buffet? Fine, I guess you can't actually force-feed them, but still...

    Unless you mean its against the CBA. I guess I wouldn't be surprised.
    ...because it would be a very dumb thing to argue with the CBA over.

    For a billion-dollar corporation like the NBA, $100 per player per day is pocket change. Who really cares how they spend it? Why should they even care?

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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    • #17
      Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

      Originally posted by Kstat View Post
      ...because it would be a very dumb thing to argue with the CBA over.

      For a billion-dollar corporation like the NBA, $100 per player per day is pocket change. Who really cares how they spend it? Why should they even care?
      Cause you're making a million dollar investment in these guys, and a lot of them don't take care of themselves. Now you got Mike Sweetney on the end of your bench, making millions of dollars, but totally ineffective because he apparently used those $100 a day to eat nothing but twinkies, or Brad Miller, who's a very effective player when he's healthy and in shape, totally killing your cap room.

      I'm not saying they could get it past the player's union, or what concessions they'd have to make, but I think it would be extremely worthwhile for teams to have a little more say in player's nutrition habits.
      2010 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champion Baltimore Bulldogs

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      • #18
        Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

        Originally posted by bulldog View Post
        Cause you're making a million dollar investment in these guys, and a lot of them don't take care of themselves.
        the vast majority do. If they don't take care of themselves, they aren't playing and probably out of the league when their contracts are up.

        Now you got Mike Sweetney on the end of your bench, making millions of dollars, but totally ineffective because he apparently used those $100 a day to eat nothing but twinkies, or Brad Miller, who's a very effective player when he's healthy and in shape, totally killing you cap room.
        Oh dear lord, Mike Sweetney is stealing money. The world will never be the same. How will the NBA survive with Mike Sweetney taking up a roster spot?

        And he's on a rookie contract! Someone please think of the children (he'll eat)....

        I'm not saying they could get it past the player's union, or what concessions they'd have to make, but I think it would be extremely worthwhile for teams to have a little more say in player's nutrition habits.
        It's a completely overblown issue. Most NBA players that are worth anything keep themselves in great shape. Unless you're name is Shaq or...Shaq, no NBA player can keep his job and not be in condition.

        It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

        Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
        Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
        NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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        • #19
          Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

          Originally posted by bulldog View Post
          You can mandate practice. Why can't you mandate attendance at an all-you-can-eat grilled chicken and veggies buffet? Fine, I guess you can't actually force-feed them, but still...

          Unless you mean its against the CBA. I guess I wouldn't be surprised.
          No, I mean I believe it's illegal in America for an employer to dictate what an employee eats. I know it's a pro-sport so the general perception is that these guys are cattle, but I just can't fathom a legal contract ever being able to factor actual diet into the equation.

          I suppose you could hold mantatory breakfast/lunch/dinner functions, but forcing extra mandatory hours into player's contract requirements would have to result in larger salaries. And like KStat says, none of that's worth enough for owners to waste time/money negotiating over.

          The best course of action would probably be to research a player's eating habits prior to drafting/signing them if it's such a concern for you as an employer. For the most part, these guys are eating pretty right anyway.
          Read my Pacers blog:
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          • #20
            Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

            Originally posted by Kstat View Post
            It's a completely overblown issue. Most NBA players that are worth anything keep themselves in great shape. Unless you're name is Shaq or...Shaq, no NBA player can keep his job and not be in condition.
            Off the top of my head...

            Vin Baker (even after he got the alcohol under control, he was still fat), Shawn Kemp, Greg Ostertag, Marcus Williams, Brad Miller, Boris Diaw (came in overweight, took him two months to get in shape, one of the reasons he played sub-par this season). I'm sure you could think of others.

            And like I said, you could mandate team meals on practice and game days. I don't think you'd have to start paying guys $30 million a year to agree to this. Free catered meals seem like kind of a perk, no? And a lot of these guys are young, single, and don't make quite enough money to have a personal chef on staff cooking hot meals at all times. It seems like it would work.

            I can't believe I'm spending this much time arguing about NBA player eating habits.
            2010 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champion Baltimore Bulldogs

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            • #21
              Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

              i actually agree with bulldog, i think that teams should provide meals for their players. its just like when you attend conferences and there are dinner functions or luncheons. the meal is provided. its part of the job. you just simply lower the per diem to allow for some basic road expenses but then rookies and min salary players can have quality meals without feeling they've got to walk all over the city for a quiznos.

              and just like conferences, i don't think you have to make it mandatory but if players choose not to dine with the team, they pay out of their own pocket or the reduced per diem. if you reduce it to say $50 instead the other half of that goes to pay for the team meals. so its still a benefit.

              No, I mean I believe it's illegal in America for an employer to dictate what an employee eats.
              most employers aren't paying American's hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to work 8-9 months of the year. and like i said above it doesn't have to be mandatory (unless like the practice-replacement breakfasts that they talk about above), but i think teams should encourage that type of stuff because A) yes it is an investment B) it helps rookies like Diawara or Sampson (or Greene or Rawle etc). the per diem is a benefit or a perk, they could easily replace that with free meals 3x a day. thats an awfully nice benefit that most American employees never get unless they go crazy on a company account.
              This is the darkest timeline.

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              • #22
                Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                Originally posted by bulldog View Post
                I can't believe I'm spending this much time arguing about NBA player eating habits.
                Nor can I.

                Meanwhile, some of the guys you listed had drug and alcohol problems and things like that aren't going to stop them from not taking care of themselves.

                And with other guys, it's not going to matter that they ate a chicken salad after practice if they still go out and drink a dozen Red Bull and vodkas that night and then stop by WhiteCastle on the way home and don't sleep right.

                Besides, these buffets are often provided already on a voluntary basis and a lot of guys don't take advantage because it's not really a perk to millionaires. A lot of guys just want to go home, or back to their hotel room to play video games/do whatever they do when they aren't required to be somewhere.

                Regardless, all this stuff would only help during the season, which isn't really the problem anyway. You can't mandate anything during the summer when players are on vacation...and that's when dudes get fat and don't work out.
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                • #23
                  Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                  Originally posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
                  the per diem is a benefit or a perk, they could easily replace that with free meals 3x a day. thats an awfully nice benefit that most American employees never get unless they go crazy on a company account.
                  Why do people keep the job of a comparing pro athlete to the job of your everyday average joe? It's ridiculous.

                  It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                  Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                  Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                  NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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                  • #24
                    Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                    Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                    No, I mean I believe it's illegal in America for an employer to dictate what an employee eats.
                    Hm - maybe it won't happen in the NBA but you think Corporate America isn't headed in that direction?
                    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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                    • #25
                      Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                      Originally posted by ABADays View Post
                      Hm - maybe it won't happen in the NBA but you think Corporate America isn't headed in that direction?
                      Corporate america has the power because their employees can be easily replaced. The NBA doesn't.

                      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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                      • #26
                        Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                        Originally posted by ABADays View Post
                        Hm - maybe it won't happen in the NBA but you think Corporate America isn't headed in that direction?
                        Hey, if my health insurance premiums keep going up because people think 3 deep fried lunches is a good idea.....
                        Narf!

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                        • #27
                          Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                          Originally posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
                          the per diem is a benefit or a perk, they could easily replace that with free meals 3x a day. thats an awfully nice benefit that most American employees never get unless they go crazy on a company account.
                          Umm...No, they couldn't.

                          Like the article says, Bob Cousy fought for this in the 50s and it's now such an ingrained part of the NBA contract/CBA that it would actually be something the player's union would require concessions for.

                          The teams aren't just giving out $106 per day as a "perk," it's mandated by a league-wide contract agreement that is rigorously hammered out and fought for in a ridiculously detailed way every few years.

                          Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                          Corporate america has the power because their employees can be easily replaced. The NBA doesn't.
                          They also don't have a union. It's pretty tough to take a single dollar away from a union.
                          Read my Pacers blog:
                          8points9seconds.com

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                          @8pts9secs

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                          • #28
                            Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                            Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                            Because I believe that would be illegal.

                            I do hear what you're saying, however. Long-term, guarenteed contracts don't exactly promote dedication in the Summer. Unfortunately, very few guys have a Jerry Rice/Karl Malone-level dedication to maintaining their bodies.
                            Of course if they were financially smart they would, because with proper diet and training comes longevity and improved numbers when you walk out into the FA market maybe 2-3 times in your career.

                            Sure a guy might earn 70m (10 years/7m) and that's enough, but by playing below his level and for 6-7 less years he just left maybe as much as another 90m (16 years/10m) on the table all because he wasn't motivated enough or didn't see the big picture.

                            Originally posted by KStat
                            Why do people keep comparing the job of a pro athlete to the job of your everyday average joe? It's ridiculous.
                            I agree. And as pointed out by Belli, you probably don't want to know the per diems and perks that a lot of other jobs are getting. You think athletes are getting more than they deserve, at least we actually get enjoyment out of their work. There are probably bigger per diems and big fat stock perks going to people who literally don't do a single thing that benefits the average citizen in any way (cough health care industry cough marketing cough insurance cough), and perhaps are even impacting the average joe in a negative way in order to earn that money.

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                            • #29
                              Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                              Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                              Why do people keep the job of a comparing pro athlete to the job of your everyday average joe? It's ridiculous.
                              It is a little ridiculous to compare jobs. The fact that they make millions of dollars and I make not even 1% of what they make and work twice as hard is one good reason.

                              I do think that they should work out in the off-season under the staff of the team they play for. I always thought it was weird that Tins and the other guys would go off on their own.

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                              • #30
                                Re: NBA Daily Per Diems

                                BTW, I've stayed in hotels with NFL teams the night before a game 3 different times (Colts, Rams, Panthers), and 2 of those were home games (Colts, Panthers). I have talked to staff of the hotels and even one of the Rams coaches about this process, mainly because the first time was the Colts over at the Marriot (there for a wedding myself) and it surprised me.

                                The reason they do it (at least the Colts for certain) is so they can control the eating and sleeping patterns of players before the game, and that includes stuff like sodium and vitamin intake, not just basic "don't party" crap. You'll get certain amounts of whatever works best for your body at X hours before the game, much like runners/cyclists do in order to hit peak performance right at game time. They run things a lot more scientificially than NBA teams apparently do based on this article, at least some of the teams. The Rams apparently don't (didn't) use a hotel for home games.

                                Imagine if Sam Hornish just showed up at the 500 after topping his fuel tank off at the local BP. "No worries Roger, I already got the fuel with my per diem".
                                Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-18-2007, 02:14 PM.

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