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Thread: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

  1. #1726
    Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I don't know how much that Mckie can be "Sign and Traded for"...but if he can be "Sign and Traded for" a 1-year $3.6 mil contract ( where we get back 3mil to cover most of his buyout ) then Harrison can be included as well.
    I'm not 100% sure, but I think the problem would be if McKie became a BYC player. That happens when a player gets a significant pay raise. What was McKie's last contract like, is it in that ballpark?

    If not, he's a BYC player, which means only half of his value counts, so he'd have to be signed for ~7 mil for it to work. That's a lot.

    Also, I remember knowing back in the day you couldn't combine sign and traded players in deals, but I think that's gone away in the last CBA, and the BYC provisions were meant to prevent signing players to large one-year contracts just to use them as trade bait. Then again, I can't think of an example where someone was signed and then traded like that.

  2. #1727

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    McKie's last K was for 2.5 mil. That should be close enough to avoid BYC.

  3. #1728

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    I'm no salary cap expert, but anyone who is can you confirm or deny this post I just read....

    There's an argument being put forth by Pacer fans and columnists that instead of dealing JO, Bird/Walsh could just let JO opt out in 2008 and get $15 million under the cap. Based on everything I've read, this is misleading if not entirely false.

    While it's true the Pacers would have only $40.5 million devoted to guaranteed salaries, there's a lot missing. That $40.5 mil is spread out among 6 players: Murphy, Dunleavy, Daniels, Tinsley, Diener, and Foster (if he exercises his option). Harrison may or may not get a qualifying offer. But three of their future core players, Diogu, Granger, and Shawne Williams have options that have to be picked up by 10/1/08. All three will likely be picked up during the season. Include those options, and the Pacers will be at $47.3 million, roughly $8 million under the cap.

    Unfortunately for the Pacers, the cap exceptions also count against their individual cap in the 2008 offseason even though they're well under. The mid-level and bi-annual exceptions combined are worth an estimated $7.5 million, NTM any traded player exceptions they may have (I'm assuming none for now). All of that brings the Pacers to $54.8 million, and I haven't accounted for rookie salaries yet. The Pacers could renounce the exceptions, but why? There's no franchise FA at $8 million. They'd still have to deal with the fact that beyond JO there's no franchise player on the team - maybe Granger, but that'll take time. No teams are interested in either Murphy or Dunleavy at their relative prices. And Jeff Foster may want an extension, or he could opt out and try for a sign-and-trade.

    In short, the Pacers are screwed with or without JO. Keep him and they're stuck between a rebuilding phase and a contending run which gets them 4th in their division at best and out of the playoffs. Trade him and they don't get full value plus they have to wait until the 2009-10 season for most of their bad K's to become tradeable. The former is foolish. The latter is an honest approach to the future.

  4. #1729

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    attaining cap space is very difficult - but what's more realistic is that JO does not opt out with $40+ mil on the table. He won't be able to recoup that amount of money as a free agent - not properly - I'm not even sure he opts out of his final year.

    if he does though - I'm sure the Pacers would be able to work smaller deals to try and get a little more under the cap - but creating a max slot is very difficult and usually pointless unless a team is building around rookie contracts and a few medium sized vet deals.

  5. #1730

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    the most McKie can be S&T for is $3 mil before becoming byc - and there's that technicality that he has to sign a 3-year deal but only the first has to be guaranteed.

  6. #1731
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    ESPN is the one trying to save face now.
    I agree.

    Note that Alipour's headline is still the big thing, then down below it as an Insider only piece in tiny print is "Rumor Central: JO prefers the Pacers". Funny that.

    Just like Bucher says that JO wants to be traded as if it's obvious despite his comments today. This deal ain't happening. Bruno (I think) said outright that the Pacers haven't even talked to LA in a month and that the NJ stuff was only brief right before the draft.

    I think this idea of ongoing negotiations is nuts. I think Bird decided what he would take and if he doesn't get it he's happy to come back with JO on the team.

    They're several years too late for that.
    What, "Who's Now" didn't turn you around and bring you back to the fold?

  7. #1732
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What, "Who's Now" didn't turn you around and bring you back to the fold?
    I say we get rid of the PD Forum Awards next year and go with a PD Who's Now tourney*.

    Who's with me?



    * Shotgun, UB bracket

  8. #1733
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    I call Peck bracket.

  9. #1734

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
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    Even if the Lakers' offer is the best one, I'm hoping DW and LB take the second-best offer just to show JO and Kidobe that negotiating through the press won't get you what you want.
    Exactly the way a business should be run.

  10. #1735

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Didn't JOb coach Magloire. Not saying I want him, but that's another player I presume NJ has to deal us.
    Untradable until 12/15.

  11. #1736

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    Lakers fans, an honest question:

    If it came down to it, would a JO/Harrison for LO/Bynum trade be made more palatable if you guys then sign Ruben Patterson for the minimum? He could be your 3rd.

    Fisher/Farmar/Crit/
    Kobe/Evans/Karl
    Patterson/Walton/Radmanovic
    JO/Turiaf/Cook
    Brown/Mihm/Harrison

    The reality is you might lose JO to the Nets if your FO doesn't relent on LO/Bynum, so it's an endgame worth considering.
    Patterson wouldn't be our #3. Our coach has such a hard-on for his precious triangle that Walton would start and Ruben would end up being a waste. If it was Grant Hill on the other hand, I'd take Foster back but only if we got to keep Kwame.

    Otherwise, personally, to give up both in a straight-up 2-way, the minimum I'd ask for in return is JO + Ike.

  12. #1737

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Out - JONeal+Murphy+Granger+Harrinson
    In - In - Odom+Bynum+Crittenton+Kwame+Cook+2008 1st Round Draft pick
    In a NY minute. But then again, it's not my money.
    Last edited by gng930; 08-08-2007 at 03:45 AM.

  13. #1738
    Opps I farted! Smashed_Potato's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    I don't want to give you guys a hard time... but.....

    O'Neal said he talked extensively with Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh on Tuesday to explain his position. He has not spoken with Bird, but offered no criticism of the Pacers front office in his radio interview.

    "Those guys are doing a great job up there," he said.
    Is this someone who's speaking the truth someone tell me if I'm insane.
    "To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe." - Anatole France

  14. #1739
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Smashed_Potato View Post
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    I don't want to give you guys a hard time... but.....



    Is this someone who's speaking the truth someone tell me if I'm insane.
    You really DON'T want me to answer that questions honestly...


    (HINT: the radio files are on this board!)
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  15. #1740

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    vs. standing pat? Maybe, maybe not.

    Lakers fans are working themselves into a lather thinking they're getting JO for cheap. If NJ sweeps in with a better offer, how will that sit with fans and with Kobe?

    My compromise trade (with assist from gng930):

    Pacers send JO/Harrison, get Bynum/Crit/Head/Brown/Sura

    Lakers send Bynum/Odom/Brown/Crit/Evans, get JO/Battier/Harrison/Snyder

    Rockets send Battier/Head/Sura/Snyder, get Odom/Evans

    This trade would also work if the Pacers substitute Foster for Harrison.
    I actually like that trade

  16. #1741
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Just like Bucher says that JO wants to be traded as if it's obvious despite his comments today.
    Uh, JO DOES want to be traded.

    If he didn't, his response to all the trade speculation would be, "I'm a Pacer, I want to stay in Indiana and all my focus is on making us better next season."

    You don't give a bunch of interviews on trades and even offer specific comments on what team you'd like to go to and how it would be to play with other players unless the idea of doing that is attractive to you.

    Now JO's a class guy (unless something else comes up I'm assuming Alipour's full of crap) so he isn't gonna pull a Kobe tantrum but he is certainly interested in being somewhere else this season. I have no doubt that he'll work hard and give everything to the Pacers when the season opens - he's a class guy and a professional. But it's a huge stretch to say he'd rather be in Indiana than anywhere else.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  17. #1742
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Uh, JO DOES want to be traded.


    Good, I'm willing to accomodate him.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

  18. #1743

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Alipour's reactions to Mel's e-mails further proves to me he was lying because:

    1. JO denied that particular quote completely. A very stupid thing to do if there is any way of proving he was lying.

    2. Most of the quotes on the ESPN article were the same as the quotes in SI and other sites. Meaning Alipour was present at the same interview as the other networks and not a different one. Were he in a seperate interview- he would not have the same quotes as other networks- and as many have already said before me- any reporter present when JO makes those kind of remarks against Bird is sure going to put them as the definig quotes of the interview.

    3. And most importantly- Any person who's telling the truth and whose integrity is being questioned will be outraged by the notion - he will not be answering polite mails trying to convince he's not lying: "why would I make that up?"- sounds like a lie. That's especially the case with reporters whose credibility is everything in their line of work- if he were telling the truth- he'd go out to clear his name right now with guns blazing.

  19. #1744
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    here is the audio from the jermaine interview. not bird.

    http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/-109..._interview.m4a

    click on the link and in the top right corner you copy/enter the 3-letter code and click 'download'. it'll take you to another page (maybe a pop-up). and it will countdown 30 seconds and then click download again. its 17min long
    for those that don't want to go searching for it in other threads, here is the audio from jermaine's portion of the interview
    This is the darkest timeline.

  20. #1745

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Someone like 15 pages ago made a good point talking about the going price for superstars. Comparing the Iverson and KG trades, and really when you break it down the Bynum/Critt/Salary relief deal is pretty comparable.

    I think a lot of people are blinded by hate of the lakers and an immature desire to "spite" JO by not sending him where he wants to go. Who gives a **** about the lakers, I only care about the pacers interests.

    Has everyone forgotten that jersey was ready to send Jason Kidd for Bynum and picks not too long ago???


    I was looking at his stats by game last season, and while he certainly has not developed consistency, hes had some impressive games at age 19 (with no college exp) second year.

    18 points and 9 rebounds (24 minutes) (season opener vs. pheonix)
    20 points, 14 rebounds, and 3 blocks against minny (29 minutes)
    12 points, 13 rebounds, 4 blocks against chicago (28)
    19 points, 10 rebounds, 6 blocks against Denver (29) (8 for 9 attempts!)
    11 points, 16 rebounds, 7 blocks against charlotte. (39)

    better than 50% shooting for all those games
    .


    Only went over 30 minutes once in those 5 games. Sure anyone can have a good game, but im pretty impressed with an inexperienced 19 year old kid who can block 7 shots or grab 16 boards in the NBA, even if it was charlotte. He did pretty well against the suns, nuggets, and bulls too.

    To me- while not proving Bynum will be a HOF or even an All-Star- these games prove his ceiling is very high and that he can have a huge impact on a game at 19 (and LA is not a bottom feeder were it's easy to put up numbers). Krstic- while being more consistent before his injury- will never have as big of an impact on a game as Bynum will- at least I dont think he will. Dont forget Krstic is 6 years older than Bynum.
    Plus, we will need a player who is a tough, good rebounding defender if JO does leave. Bynum will be better in these aspects of the game than NK.
    Last edited by DgR; 08-08-2007 at 10:00 AM.

  21. #1746

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    While JO's comments may annoying- they won't really have any influence on any upcomig trade.

    It all comes down to what are the teams' goals for making a trade:

    1. Pacers- For us it's all about talent- we should do the deal that brings the most talent back- not the most ready to contribute players. We should get the most talented players we can get regardless of age/ experinece and preferably players who can fill a position of need. I dont think the team these playes come from should be a factor (LA, EC rival etc.) We won't give in to a bad offer simply because we dont have to. Even if JO's comments do affect the quality of offers- we can simply stand pat.

    2. Lakers- it's all about forming a team which can win a championship NOW- therefore I find it difficult to believe they are offering Odom over Bynum. That is also why they cannot give LO no matter what. If they trade both LO and Bynum without adding another big contributor to the mix- they will not achieve their goal of becoming a contender. I dont think LA's FO wants to scr#w us over- but there's no point for them to do this trade and they won't give in to our demands either- because even Kobe won't complain if LO+ Bynum is all we're willing to accept.

    3. Nets- same as LA- they need to make a push for a ring right now- I dont believe they're thinking about 2010. They have an option to build a contender now and I do believe they prefer winning their first NBA championship now than having M. Williams in 3 years. He's not Chris Paul after all. They will try to make a deal that will still leave them able to contend. If their management feels without M.Williams they cant contend- they too will not give in to our demands.

  22. #1747
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    I say we get rid of the PD Forum Awards next year and go with a PD Who's Now tourney*.

    Who's with me?
    Well, then you'd have Erin Andrews arguing that none of us are "now" because it's not basketball season.

    Anyway, I'd have to vote for LG, after the Diener signing.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  23. #1748

    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Except for JO- our best option regarding other team issues (Murph, Dun, Tins, SF logjam) is to stnad pat. That's because our players' value is very low right now and I'm sure they- as well as the team in general- will perform much better next year and we'll be able to get a much better value for guys like Murphy. Right now we can only get rid of him by forcing a bad trade (even then he's pretty untradable right now). We're in no hurry- especially if JO is traded.

  24. #1749
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Well, then you'd have Erin Andrews arguing that none of us are "now" because it's not basketball season.

    Anyway, I'd have to vote for LG, after the Diener signing.
    and the rush signing. could he hit the trifecta with stanko actually being better than jordan???
    This is the darkest timeline.

  25. #1750
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    Default Re: The Official JO trade rumors/speculation/discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gng930 View Post
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    Exactly the way a business should be run.
    Yes - because letting the inmates run the asylum by accomodating their demands/ tantrums is always good business - no one will ever follow that example in the future.



    PS - Donnie Walsh has long been known to accomodate players that act up and request/ demand trades by shipping them to Siberia/ Toronto/ Atlanta/ Chicago during the lean years/ Sacramento.
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