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Thread: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

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    Default Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    I don't see it any other way. The other reason the deal may not have gone down is Cook's contract. He now makes right at 3 million for the next 3 years, which is nothing brutal. That just went into play on July 11th. Kwame is still in the deal, as is Bynum. JC could have been added to any deal, but not from a contractual standpoint until 30 days after he signed, which I believe will be Aug. 2. The Lakers did sign him very quickly, by the way, after Kupchak went on to say that he is talented but rookies picked below 15 rarely do much in their first year. Now, the deal either awaits until it can be completed or is not going to happen at all. The Lakers also signed Fisher, and they do have Farmar. Maybe the Lakers see JC as a guy who can play 1 and 2, and they think Bynum is coming into his own, and they refuse the deal. I think they have to do it. I do believe the Lakers would like a Farmar, Bynum, Brown, Cook, 2008 #1, 2010 #1, instead of the same deal with JC, with just a 2008 #1 being offered. As I said on the Lakers board, the Pacers deserve JC in this deal if no LO.

    If you told me one team does not do this deal it would be the Lakers, because these guys are young and gifted, plus Fisher has signed, which should shut Kobe up. That being said, they are still a #5 seed in the west as is. Getting JO would put them at #3 behind SA and Suns, jumping ahead of Dallas and Utah. My guess is the deal gets completed, and the little signs with Kwame, DA, comments made by Lakers and Pacers regarding draft and free agency, lead me to believe this deal has a pretty good chance of going down come August. If by the second week of August nothing has hapenned, we know it is dead. And us Laker fans and Pacer fans can go our separate ways, as I invade your turf again.

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Did you say JO would put the Lakers above the Mavs?

    -- Steve --

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    I think the deal is dead!!! J.O. will probably go to a team no one expects him to go to

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    I think the deal is dead!!! J.O. will probably go to a team no one expects him to go to

    Like the Pacers! Still don't think he's going anywhere....Lakers don't have enough to get him.

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Yes, I would put them above the Mavs. Though Dallas is a great regualar season team, I believe the Lakers are the #3 threat in the West. Although, your insinuation that Dallas may have the better regular season record may be right. As for the Lakers not having enough, then I guess you won't be trading JO, which is a bit risky, since he may walk. The Lakers have a nice young package, and I would be willing to bet you cannot find a package better. Even if NJ was offering Jefferson and Kristic, which I don't believe they are, Crittenton gives you a young backcourt presence, and Bynum could give you a good young center to go with the young perimeter talent. If the Pacers are not willing to take a step back in order to retool the team, than the trade will not take place. But, respectfully, I believe you guys are overrating JO's value just a bit, because the Crittenton, Bynum, Brown, Cook, 2008 #1 for JO, Harrison is about as good an offer as you will get. Of that, I am confident.

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded
    A third possibility is the Lakers wait to pull the trigger until they know for sure that they're out of the KG sweepstakes, which may not happen until just before training camp opens.
    Last edited by blanket; 07-15-2007 at 12:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMac View Post
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    Like the Pacers! Still don't think he's going anywhere....Lakers don't have enough to get him.
    Yeah, I have that feeling too!!! Some people should understand that the PAcers always comeback quick and become a playoff team, regardless of the year before. I still think last years team was nyce. . I mean the only reason why we didn't make the playoffs was because of that losing streak. If we won atleast 6 or 7 of those game we would have made the playoffs and Orlando or Miami would have been chillen playing Golf. We just need another perimetre defender, PG and a rebounder, something like a Dale Davis type player and we're fine

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Also, I think a trade going down in midseason is very unlikely. If it goes into the season, I think the Pacers may may find themselves in a bind if they are a fringe playoff team and guys like Bynum and Crittenton show some of their talent. Ultimately, it comes down to this: Will the Pacers, with guys like Granger, Williams, Diagu, Daniels, Tinsley, hope those guys can provide the supporting cast around JO and stand pat? Or will they say: You know what, in 3-4 years, we can be really, really, good, possibly with a core of JC, Granger, Williams, Diagu, Bynum. Or they can stay as is, fight for the 8th seed, and watch JO dip slightly every year, along with his trade value. In 2-3 years, who knows how this trade looks? But there are more Laker fans than you think that are against a JC/Bynum for JO deal. I think it helps one team in the short term and another long term, which makes sense considering that the Lakers, with Kobe, need to make a push, while the Pacers can be ready to jump on teams like Miami, Detroit, NJ, maybe even Cleveland in 2-3 years and be right with Chicago atop the east. This deal could help make that happen, while giving the Lakers a good 3-4 year push for a ring right now. It makes sense for both teams, and you can argue against it for both teams, which makes me think it is very possible, because deals should by definition make sense for both sides, with an element of risk figuring in for both sides. For the Pacers, it would be unrealized potential and a very young team. For the Lakers, it would be JO's age and health, and the realized potential of both Bynum and JC. The point is if the deal happpens, I think we all know what it would be and both sides would have people supporting and not supporting the deal. We both of that in common.

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    But, respectfully, I believe you guys are overrating JO's value just a bit, because the Crittenton, Bynum, Brown, Cook, 2008 #1 for JO, Harrison is about as good an offer as you will get. Of that, I am confident.
    I would take that in a heartbeat.

    I know Cook ain't that good, but apparently the one thing he can do is shoot, something we are apparently lacking. I am unaware of his contract situation but if it isn't really long term and high dollar then I'm willing to take him on.

    Crittenton is a risk, but he's a big PG (which I have always liked) and if he can get a solid grounding in some of the fundamentals from our staff, he can be our PG for the next ten years.

    Kwame is a decent reserve, can put up 10 and 6 when needed, but most importantly is salary cap relief.

    Bynum could be the league's next year center, or he could be a 15 and 8 guy. Again, it's a risk, but it could be high reward.

    And I love the idea of having two draft picks to work with next year. I predict that the Pacers will pick around 11th again and the Lakers pick will be somewhere between 18-21.

    And we give up Harrison, who is more or less useless. And JO, who, while he has done a lot for the team, is on the downswing of his career, is injury prone, has questionable leadership skills, and is a below average shooter.

    Yes, it's a rebuilding move, but we're going nowhere next year with or without JO on the team.

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    LAKERERIC-

    I notice you mention J.O.'s 'age' with the seeming inference that he's
    getting old by NBA standards, etc.

    He's 28. That's about the time that most athletes are just hitting their
    physical prime which typically lasts until about 32 or so and then,
    depending on the individual and the sport, they begin to start to
    decline.

    And here's another tidbit to chew on. Taking into consideration both
    regular season and the playoffs, J.O. has played a total about 21,000
    minutes.

    Garnett, who's admittedly a bit better all around player than J.O. and
    has a better, more balanced physique than J.O. is 31 and has played
    a total of about 37,500 minutes.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    While this has nothing to do with Age, KG has never significantly altered his body. He has stayed at a weight he is comfortable with. While I believe the weight JO put on has led to his injury issues and not being half as explosive as he used to be which makes him settle for jump shots.

    Forcing JO to gain weight so he would fit into his inside out game plan was the worst thing Carlisle ever did to this franchise.

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    If we deal for Crittenton, there will be a new scapegoat in town (once Tins is gone).
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    Yes, I would put them above the Mavs. Though Dallas is a great regualar season team, I believe the Lakers are the #3 threat in the West. Although, your insinuation that Dallas may have the better regular season record may be right. As for the Lakers not having enough, then I guess you won't be trading JO, which is a bit risky, since he may walk. The Lakers have a nice young package, and I would be willing to bet you cannot find a package better. Even if NJ was offering Jefferson and Kristic, which I don't believe they are, Crittenton gives you a young backcourt presence, and Bynum could give you a good young center to go with the young perimeter talent. If the Pacers are not willing to take a step back in order to retool the team, than the trade will not take place. But, respectfully, I believe you guys are overrating JO's value just a bit, because the Crittenton, Bynum, Brown, Cook, 2008 #1 for JO, Harrison is about as good an offer as you will get. Of that, I am confident.
    If JO is the difference between the Lakers wallowing in the lower-tier of Western Conference playoff teams and being in the top 2-3, methinks we're not valuing him enough.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    LAKERERIC-

    I notice you mention J.O.'s 'age' with the seeming inference that he's
    getting old by NBA standards, etc.

    He's 28. That's about the time that most athletes are just hitting their
    physical prime which typically lasts until about 32 or so and then,
    depending on the individual and the sport, they begin to start to
    decline.

    And here's another tidbit to chew on. Taking into consideration both
    regular season and the playoffs, J.O. has played a total about 21,000
    minutes.

    Garnett, who's admittedly a bit better all around player than J.O. and
    has a better, more balanced physique than J.O. is 31 and has played
    a total of about 37,500 minutes.
    Precisely.

    JO is hitting his prime right now, and will likely still be in it (or just starting on the downslope) as his contract ends.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Karmakillaz View Post
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    While this has nothing to do with Age, KG has never significantly altered his body. He has stayed at a weight he is comfortable with. While I believe the weight JO put on has led to his injury issues and not being half as explosive as he used to be which makes him settle for jump shots.

    Forcing JO to gain weight so he would fit into his inside out game plan was the worst thing Carlisle ever did to this franchise.
    Are we sure this was Carlisle's decision?
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh4d3 View Post
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    Are we sure this was Carlisle's decision?
    Nope, it was Donnie's.

    Nobody ever told JO "gain 30 pounds." But they've also steadfastly refused to get him any help since they let Brad walk. So JO felt he had to gain the extra weight to play the role Carlisle/Donnie forced him to play.
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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh4d3 View Post
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    If JO is the difference between the Lakers wallowing in the lower-tier of Western Conference playoff teams and being in the top 2-3, methinks we're not valuing him enough.
    An excellent point.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Karmakillaz-

    Agreed. J.O. at 260 lbs is too 'top heavy'. He'd be much better off
    playing at about 245 lbs or so. The things is though, at that lighter
    weight, he probably can't bang effectively in the post and he doesn't
    seem to have the all-around-skill-set (ala Garnett) to play effectively
    facing the bucket all the time.

    I don't totally blame Carlisle, but in hindsight, using J.O. much more
    along the lines that Phoenix uses Stoudamire (sp?) would have been
    the way to go.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Cook is BYC and I'm not sure why the Pacers would want him and his 3-year contract when they already have Troy Murphy.

    For the Pacers, the most attractive package built around Bynum, Crit, and pick(s) would be Kwame, Sasha, and Evans (all expiring Ks)

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah Brown View Post
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    LAKERERIC-

    I notice you mention J.O.'s 'age' with the seeming inference that he's
    getting old by NBA standards, etc.

    He's 28. That's about the time that most athletes are just hitting their
    physical prime which typically lasts until about 32 or so and then,
    depending on the individual and the sport, they begin to start to
    decline.

    And here's another tidbit to chew on. Taking into consideration both
    regular season and the playoffs, J.O. has played a total about 21,000
    minutes.

    Garnett, who's admittedly a bit better all around player than J.O. and
    has a better, more balanced physique than J.O. is 31 and has played
    a total of about 37,500 minutes.
    LAKERERIC -

    You seem to imply that the Lakers are not nearly as urgent in making the deal because they now have Fisher, JC and that maybe Bynum is "coming into his own".

    Oh, please. That's hoping for a lot in the coming year from JC and Bynum. And the acquisition of Fisher in the appeasment of Kobe? In the significance of things, that's about as significant as a flea on an elephant's arse. Kobe is apparently looking for a REAL difference-maker, and he wants it done now. You guys haven't come close to accomplishing that yet, and the urgency is still there.

    Regarding your ramblings about minutes, age and all that happy horse-hockey... I suppose that it hasn't occurred to you that the great Kobe is actually 2 months older than Jermaine and that he has logged a total of 33,500 minutes compared to JO's 21,500.

    CRAP! The sky must be falling. I guess that means that Kobe is well past his prime and that he must somehow have one foot in the bball player graveyard. You better bring that to Mitch's attention, because I'm certain that it has never occurred to him that Kobe is actually a has-been and that he should trade his arse or better yet, just let him walk... since he's obviously not worth anything... you know, because of his advanced age and all those minutes and all.

    The truth of the matter is, the Lakers don't have a better player available to them than Jermaine. You can ramble all you want about waiting for this date or that date or that the stars must be in alignment, age, minutes or whatever. But I think it comes down to one point and one point only.

    Walsh has looked straight at Kupchak and basically said "Put up or shut up."

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by gng930 View Post
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    Cook is BYC and I'm not sure why the Pacers would want him and his 3-year contract when they already have Troy Murphy.

    For the Pacers, the most attractive package built around Bynum, Crit, and pick(s) would be Kwame, Sasha, and Evans (all expiring Ks)
    we don't want cook...

    the problem with the above deal is that its 1 for 5 trade. even if we toss in Armstrong or Harrison we'd need to add another piece. i think the only way to work it out without including Odom or VladRad or Cook... is re-sign McKie for the $3mil with first year guarenteed with lakers sending cash to pay for it.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    i think the only way to work it out without including Odom or VladRad or Cook... is re-sign McKie for the $3mil with first year guarenteed with lakers sending cash to pay for it.
    Exactly. If the Pacers are interested in this trade, one of the best benefits is an opportunity to get the team's finances in better shape. Taking on Cook's contract needlessly would NOT be good.

    We should have the chance to wind up at the end of the year with only Bynum and the rookie contract of Crittenton, along with the draft pick(s), if we choose to let Kwame go his separate way.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Cook being byc basicly can't be in the trade. A deal that works is either Bynum , Crittenden , Brown, Vujacic or Evans , a resigned and waived McKie (salary paid by Lakers sending trade max mil ) and a #1 in 2008-10 one of those 3 years. The Pacers waive McKie.

    Another version that works is both Evan and Vujacic but I don't see the Pacers wanting 5 contracts for one. Nor the Lakers shipping that many away in one trade.

    A 3rd option is Bynum, Brown, Crittenden , Vujacic and McKie + 1 for JO and Harrison. This gives the Lakers 2 bigs and clears Harrison's contract.

    Personally I think the 2 teams will make a trade probably the 1st week of August. Jim Hill a sports guy last night reported that Crittenden was part of a package trade , Laker fans think its KG -I think its Pacers.

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    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    Donnie better be SOLD on JC if we trade JO w/ him and Bynum being the best returning prospects.

    Ugh.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

    I'd love to get Harrison back in the deal. I worry about giving JO too much time at the 5 and I simply don't trust Mihm's ankle enough to depend on him for significant minutes. At least Harrison is the kind of guy that can man up. I wouldn't mind trading Mihm out to DET for Nazr. Nazr's been in their doghouse and they probably would like to get rid of his contract for a shorter one. I'd be comfortable with a center rotation of Nazr, Harrison, with JO and Turiaf able to play in limited situations.

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