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Thread: Montieth blog

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    Default Montieth blog

    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

    Let me lead today’s exercise session. Everybody take a deep breath. Exhale slowly. Relax.


    The unrest that is flitting around some media and fan circles because the Pacers haven’t yet announced a major trade or free agent signing is, to put it politely, absurd. And to put it impolitely, it's stupid.


    Passing judgment on them or any other team at this premature point makes as much sense as commenting on the Colts’ effort in training camp. In other words, it hasn’t even started yet, so what’s the problem?
    True, some NBA teams made draft-related trades or have announced impending moves. But for the most part, the summer follows a natural progression.


    In June, teams focus on the draft. Trades are made that involve draft picks, but not many. In early July, teams focus on their summer league teams, although a few free agent acquisitions are announced. And now it’s nearly time for the real trade and free agency action to start.


    Keep in mind that the Pacers have often made their most meaningful moves late in the summer. They traded Dale Davis for Jermaine O’Neal on Aug. 31, 2000. Last summer they traded for Al Harrington on Aug. 22, after some were ripping them for not getting the deal done. So if a week or two passes and the Pacers haven’t traded O’Neal, it doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Doesn’t mean it will, either, but there’s going to be a process.


    I hate to be the bear of boring tidings in this knee-jerk world, but it probably will take awhile for things to play out with the Pacers, just as it did last summer. So hold those roster analyses.


    As for the rest of the league, there are two forces of nature at work. There are more capable free agents than there are teams with mid-level or better contracts to offer. And there are more media outlets feeling the need to "feed the beast" than there is legitimate news to report.


    That means there will be a lot of bogus rumors and a lot of waiting around for things to shake out.


    We’ve already seen hot rumors of Garnett being traded, followed by rumors of Garnett staying put. We’ve seen rumors of the Knicks pursuing Ron Artest, followed by the Knicks “cooling” on Artest.


    The truth is, it’s mostly been a lot of media-driven hype. Stay tuned for the real thing. Just be patient.


    ***


    Isn’t it interesting that fights in other sports are treated as inconsequential, inevitable or amusing, while those in the NBA are indicators of a serious problem within the league or greater social issues?


    I ask this in the wake of the scrum in the pits following Sunday’s Indy Car race at Watkins Glen. Listening to radio commentary on Monday, I heard it described as “kind of exciting” and “kind of fun” and “the best thing that could have happened” for the sport.


    I don’t disagree. But somehow I don’t think an NBA fight would ever be regarded so casually. And I can't help but wonder, are any of the racing people now "thugs"?


    ***


    I can't predict how much success Jim O'Brien will have with the Pacers next season, but I know this: He'll be just their second low-maintenance coach since his father-in-law, Jack Ramsay, coached the team in the late 1980s.


    Dick Versace, Bob Hill and Larry Brown were high-maintenance. Larry Bird was low-maintenance. Isiah Thomas wasn't as high-maintenance as some assume, but the reaction he inspired from others often made for a high-maintenance environment. It's playing out the same way in New York. He doesn't irritate his players, but he seems to get to a lot of fans and media members. Rick Carlisle was high-maintenance, in a quiet sort of way.


    Some of the high-maintenance coaches performed well for stretches, but they tend to wear out the players. They also make life more difficult for the front office, either by refusing to deal with the distractions or by causing them.


    You all know how it is in your work environments. Some people create stress, others absorb it. Bird absorbed it, but could only do it for a limited time before it got to him. O'Brien will do the same, but will have more staying power because he's a coaching lifer by nature and better equipped to handle the hassles of the job. He's also direct, honest, free of ego hangups and willing to deal with the locker room issues.


    That should mean fewer distractions and a greater focus on basketball, which would come as a relief to everyone.

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    I was reading Chuck Swirsky's blog and he's like What are the Pacers plans this offseason? . . . I honestly don't know what he's thinking, He's just thinks people have to operate like Brian Colangelo every offseason to keep up the hype. Pacers don't really need to make Massive changes, the only massive thing we coud do is trade Jermaine, and I don't see that happening. We've already got nyce players on this team, if Marquis stays healthy, get a back up PG, and another big man, We're gonna be fine IMHO.

    Chuck shouldn't worry about the Pacers, he should worry about the Knicks and the Celtics, and even NJ, cause that Atlantic Division just got competitive, I could see NY or NJ winnin that division next year

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Sometimes it's tough to discern wether Mark's paychecks are signed
    by a representative of the Indy Star or the Pacers organization.

    It'd be nice if he occasionally aimed similar dismissive ire at Mr. Bird
    and/or Mr. Walsh.

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    This is kinda off topic, but does Conrad Brunner still write for Pacers.com or does he get the summer off?

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    I thought it was pretty even keel and a slight back handed slap toward the Krapitz article which is nice.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    I can't predict how much success Jim O'Brien will have with the Pacers next season, but I know this: He'll be just their second low-maintenance coach since his father-in-law, Jack Ramsay, coached the team in the late 1980s.


    Dick Versace, Bob Hill and Larry Brown were high-maintenance. Larry Bird was low-maintenance. Isiah Thomas wasn't as high-maintenance as some assume, but the reaction he inspired from others often made for a high-maintenance environment. It's playing out the same way in New York. He doesn't irritate his players, but he seems to get to a lot of fans and media members. Rick Carlisle was high-maintenance, in a quiet sort of way.


    Some of the high-maintenance coaches performed well for stretches, but they tend to wear out the players. They also make life more difficult for the front office, either by refusing to deal with the distractions or by causing them.


    You all know how it is in your work environments. Some people create stress, others absorb it. Bird absorbed it, but could only do it for a limited time before it got to him. O'Brien will do the same, but will have more staying power because he's a coaching lifer by nature and better equipped to handle the hassles of the job. He's also direct, honest, free of ego hangups and willing to deal with the locker room issues.


    That should mean fewer distractions and a greater focus on basketball, which would come as a relief to everyone.



    I would really like to know how Rick was high maintenance and also Bob Hill. I know Brown was and Versace really was also.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-10-2007 at 01:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    damn, there is so much stiuff to comment on in the blog, I don't know where to start - I'll have to get back with you
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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    To be fair, the Colts won a title last season, while the Pacers were a lottery team. Not improving on a lottery team = BAD, no matter how you look at it.

    Add to that that other lottery teams have improved, and it's gets REALLY bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    ***


    Isn’t it interesting that fights in other sports are treated as inconsequential, inevitable or amusing, while those in the NBA are indicators of a serious problem within the league or greater social issues?


    I ask this in the wake of the scrum in the pits following Sunday’s Indy Car race at Watkins Glen. Listening to radio commentary on Monday, I heard it described as “kind of exciting” and “kind of fun” and “the best thing that could have happened” for the sport.


    I don’t disagree. But somehow I don’t think an NBA fight would ever be regarded so casually. And I can't help but wonder, are any of the racing people now "thugs"?


    ***


    Without question there is a completely different standard for NBA fights vs almost any other fight in almost any other sport. (perhaps only the huge brawl in Miami last college football season compares as far as coverage is concerned. Baseball fights are said to be "part of the game" and the media and fans talk of a bench clearing brawl as if it is something to cherish. Of course hockey is even more so. But in auto racing it is kinda of laughed about.

    it is so strange. I hate playing the race card - I just hate it but on this issue it must be at least a part of it - I think people look at a bunch of black basketball players differently then they do a bunch of race car drivers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robobtowncolt View Post
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    You all, everbody!
    That's it, you are going to ignore - I just get that stupid song out of my head and what do you do. IGNORE for 3 days

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Sweet, only 400 more members to go.
    Narf!

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Without question there is a completely different standard for NBA fights vs almost any other fight in almost any other sport. (perhaps only the huge brawl in Miami last college football season compares as far as coverage is concerned. Baseball fights are said to be "part of the game" and the media and fans talk of a bench clearing brawl as if it is something to cherish. Of course hockey is even more so. But in auto racing it is kinda of laughed about.

    it is so strange. I hate playing the race card - I just hate it but on this issue it must be at least a part of it - I think people look at a bunch of black basketball players differently then they do a bunch of race car drivers.

    Your right about that last statemet!!!

    Nowadays, hockey media is wondering if Hockey fights/Violence is too much!! I think sometimes the media gets soft!!! No one was saying that when Wendel Clark and Marty McSorely was going at it. . .One of the best Hockey fights EVER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Without question there is a completely different standard for NBA fights vs almost any other fight in almost any other sport. (perhaps only the huge brawl in Miami last college football season compares as far as coverage is concerned. Baseball fights are said to be "part of the game" and the media and fans talk of a bench clearing brawl as if it is something to cherish. Of course hockey is even more so. But in auto racing it is kinda of laughed about.

    it is so strange. I hate playing the race card - I just hate it but on this issue it must be at least a part of it - I think people look at a bunch of black basketball players differently then they do a bunch of race car drivers.
    There difference is not racial. The difference is people are close to the action on a basketball court. When a fight breaks out it can spill into the stands and involve spectators.

    Auto Racing? Unless a fan jumps down onto the track or get's in the pits are they close.

    Football? You still have to jump onto the playing surface.

    Hockey? Again the fans are shielded from the action.

    Golf and Bowling are the only American sports where the fans are as close to the players.

    That leaves Soccer which get's plenty of bad pub for it's violent behavior. I wonder how much race is a factor in that?
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Robobtowncolt View Post
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    You all, everbody!


    Anyway, I don't think the unrest is just because we haven't made a move. It's because every day that goes by it looks more like we aren't going to make a move. Wells was on the radio yesterday saying that Tinsley will most probably stay and JO will as well. Then we find out that Rush and Graham have been signed to fully guaranteed contracts, which doesn't jive with the notion of major roster upheaval coming.

    The story was, wait until the draft. Then it was wait until FA season. Now it's wait until the moratorium is lifted. Then it'll be wait until rookies can be traded. Then it'll be wait until KG is traded. Then it'll be wait until camps start. Then it'll be wait until Dec. 15th (when signed players can be traded). Then it'll be wait until the trading deadline. Then it'll be wait until next year.

    It's all quite fustrating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Without question there is a completely different standard for NBA fights vs almost any other fight in almost any other sport. (perhaps only the huge brawl in Miami last college football season compares as far as coverage is concerned. Baseball fights are said to be "part of the game" and the media and fans talk of a bench clearing brawl as if it is something to cherish. Of course hockey is even more so. But in auto racing it is kinda of laughed about.

    it is so strange. I hate playing the race card - I just hate it but on this issue it must be at least a part of it - I think people look at a bunch of black basketball players differently then they do a bunch of race car drivers.
    i think race has something to do with it... but i also think you've got to say there is much more intimacy with basketball than football, racing, hockey or even baseball could be argued. basketball players/fans aren't protected by walls or nets or glass... plus most (unless you're Rip) aren't wearing helmets or driving cars, etc... there is something more intimate about a basketball players visability (which is why basketball players are more likely to have endorsements than other team sport athletes...Peyton would be an outlier).

    the other issue at hand is that it has only been basketball in recent years to have a MEGA fight in the stands involving fans. so basketball has earned more scrutiny, its not like the sport/players are complete victims in the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    That leaves Soccer which get's plenty of bad pub for it's violent behavior. I wonder how much race is a factor in that?
    the soccer bad pub would involve the fans not the players. fans launching burning torches onto the fields, people getting killed in riots. none of that involves players. the biggest soccer brawl on field was the headbutt which i can't say compares...
    Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 07-10-2007 at 01:25 PM. Reason: added RWB quote
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    There difference is not racial. The difference is people are close to the action on a basketball court. When a fight breaks out it can spill into the stands and involve spectators.

    Auto Racing? Unless a fan jumps down onto the track or get's in the pits are they close.

    Football? You still have to jump onto the playing surface.

    Hockey? Again the fans are shielded from the action.

    Golf and Bowling are the only American sports where the fans are as close to the players.

    That leaves Soccer which get's plenty of bad pub for it's violent behavior. I wonder how much race is a factor in that?


    That is an excellent point and I think your point is a bigger factor than race, but as much as I hate to admit it, I think race is a factor, maybe not the most important factor or certainly the biggest factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Anyway, I don't think the unrest is just because we haven't made a move. It's because every day that goes by it looks more like we aren't going to make a move. Wells was on the radio yesterday saying that Tinsley will most probably stay and JO will as well. Then we find out that Rush and Graham have been signed to fully guaranteed contracts, which doesn't jive with the notion of major roster upheaval coming.

    The story was, wait until the draft. Then it was wait until FA season. Now it's wait until the moratorium is lifted. Then it'll be wait until rookies can be traded. Then it'll be wait until KG is traded. Then it'll be wait until camps start. Then it'll be wait until Dec. 15th (when signed players can be traded). Then it'll be wait until the trading deadline. Then it'll be wait until next year.

    It's all quite fustrating.
    I would say, just wait until camps open.

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Oh, I don't doubt that Bob Hill was high maintenance.

    I think Bob's great quality as an assistant is that the players get to know/ love him.

    I'm not sure that it pans out very well, long term. I think Bob still wants to be the coach they think is on their side when he moves over to the hot seat, but he knows he has to be critical. So he gets caught in no-man's land.

    Its why Bob is generally a great in-season turnaround coach but eventually the luster wears off a couple of seasons later.

    Still not sure how Rick is high maintentance. Unless he's concerned the computers, calculators, and egg timers aren't going to like him.
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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    That is an excellent point and I think your point is a bigger factor than race, but as much as I hate to admit it, I think race is a factor, maybe not the most important factor or certainly the biggest factor.
    I agree that it is a contributing factor to the media "outrage" that comes out of every fight.

    But, like you say, it is not as high on the list as many others.

    One other major factor that no one ever seems to bring up, however, is that the other team sports have more of a history of fighting. And in hockey and baseball (less so now that the pussification of America has accellerated in the last decade), it is actually somewhat a part of the game. In hockey, you do some scandalous crap like slashing a star player (cough*Gretzky*cough) and you know full well you're gonna get punched on your next shift. In baseball, if you back a guy off the plate too many times by going high-and-tight and the other team's pitcher retaliates later by hitting a batter, there is a good chance the benches are clearing.

    Both of these are historically ingrained components of the games themselves. Football doesn't have this "ingrained" component as much as the other two, but surely, fights are more apt to break out in a sport this violent and with this many piles in the trenches where people can do all sorts of messed up stuff. In basketball, there's never really a cause to fight. I mean, occasionally, there clearly is, but it's always somebody "went too far."

    The whole notion that the Knicks/Denver fight got more media play than that Florida State one with dudes swinging helmets at each other should be enough to prove that point.

    It's just not acceptable in basketball (high school and college too, which often have more white dudes) as it is in any of the other majors (and hockey ), so it causes more outrage.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 07-10-2007 at 01:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I would really like to know how Rick was high maintenance and also Bob Hill. I know Brown was and Versace really was also.
    i thought i was the only one confused by that. problem is, montieth doesn't make clear what he means by "high maintenance"

    now larry brown, i guess everyone would agree that he is high maintenance. a coach who constantly lobbies for trades, calls out players through the press, etc, doesn't make for a smooth working environment. and yet he's a pretty successful coach, so i guess being high maintenance isn't necessarily bad.

    rick though? what's the story there? that he wears out the players? i thought every coach does that (hence bird's 3 year rule)

    one thing for sure, obie has better "people skills" than rick, especially when it comes to winning over sportswriters

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
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    Oh, I don't doubt that Bob Hill was high maintenance.
    The best groomed coach in all of professional sports not high maintenance? I think not!

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    Default Re: Montieth blog

    Rick, from what we've heard from media outlets other than The Star and Pacers.com, has absolutely terrible interpersonal/ relationship skills. I've never really thought of that as "high maintenance" though. But I guess he's saying that everybody else has to work really, really, really hard to figure out how to get along with him.
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    I'm just odd I guess, but the way many of you get all riled up and angered at Kravitz is exactly how I feel about Montieth and his writing.

    Condescending is the only word that comes to my mind whenever I read his views on the team and it's fans.

    I grow oh so tired of his annual summer writings of how all fans are just idiotic reactionary's who need his calming sage wisdom to make sure we understand that at the center of it all Donnie Walsh is there to sooth our troubled brow.

    How every other sports writer, anchor, radio person is just a hype driven machine and does nothig but fan the flames of the reactionary fans, but the bunny is the one shining light in this sea of torment. If we would only put our faith in Donnie, Jesus and himself (in that order I might add) we would all be saved.

    All that was missing from this blog was his usual and customary statement of "don't make trades for the sake of trades" for this to be one of his pulitzer prize winning articles.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I would really like to know how Rick was high maintenance and also Bob Hill. I know Brown was and Versace really was also.
    the rick comment seemed like another post-firing cheapshot to me. i don't doubt rick's interpersonal skills are lacking, but mark directly follows that point with...

    Some of the high-maintenance coaches performed well for stretches, but they tend to wear out the players. They also make life more difficult for the front office, either by refusing to deal with the distractions or by causing them.
    rick wanted ron traded but was told to coach the rest of the team that TPTB would handle ron. who ignored or did not properly deal with the distraction in this case? criticize his poor interpersonal skills, or maybe not being a disciplinarian, or an often uncreative offense that relied too heavily on JO (although TPTB didn't give him many options last year)... but i don't think you could say rick really ignored major distractions. and rick isn't larry brown or isiah thomas or george karl... so i can't see him really creating distractions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    That leaves Soccer which get's plenty of bad pub for it's violent behavior. I wonder how much race is a factor in that?
    No it doesn't. It gets talked about, but ultimately it's a running joke to have soccer hooligans, etc. I'd say the US apathy toward soccer still sits squarely on it being a boring, snobbish, elitist sport. I don't think most people soccer as more violent than the NBA, at least in terms of incidents (rather than the physical nature of the sport itself).

    And the issue for me is that almost every soccer riot/violent act goes WAY past even the Brawl. Get back to me when flares are thrown at NBA players and loud racial chants are launched down on them.

    Bird mixed it up plenty of times, Laimbeer made a habit of it it seemed. Heck even Detlef got tossed for his dust up with Ewing. Somehow that was "boys will be boys".

    But when Jackson won't leave the court quickly it's outrageous and out of control??!?! It makes me sick having grown up watching Billy Martin and Earl Weaver. They could kick dirt, scream spit-flying filth in an umps face, throw anything they could find onto the field, flop around on the ground, and so on and it was just a big laugh and part of the game. Heck, it was ENDEARING, people loved Weaver for his antics, just as Lou is popular now for his.

    Imagine Weaver being asked to leave the court like Jackson in Oakland and having his tirade instead of Jack yelling at the ref as he walked the isle to the exit door (center court, had to go around scorers table). Towels on the floor, Gatorade cups, probably the jug too, he'd probably grab the sweat mop and mock clean the floor and the refs shoes just to be a jerk. Would any announcer react in horror to the disgraceful behavior and thuggery?

    I know better because I've seen it overlooked way too many times. In fact I'd say plenty of NBA coaches have gotten away with stuff easily as bad as what got Jackson that big fine for not "leaving quickly enough"...which took all of about 2 minutes max, if that.


    It might not just be race, but it's something. There is some new perception that cranks up the sensitivity to NBA players behavior now when it didn't used to be that way, not even close in fact.

    Frankly I think that's very specifically why Maxwell didn't have fans trying to kill him and why Stern gave him so few games compared to Artest just 10 years later.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-10-2007 at 02:47 PM.

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