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Thread: Let's fix Free Agency

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Let's fix Free Agency

    OK, some will say it ain't broke but.........they "fixed" the draft/ping-pong ball situation didn't they?

    Given.....Cold Weather/small market teams are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to signing FAs. Players have the money and that gives them the freedom to select where they wish to play when FA time comes. Now I will admit that 99.9% of the time they sign with their current team so they can receive max $ and I have no problem with that. But when a player is willing to look at another team or is forced to by his current team walking away, then he will most assuradly go to a warm weather team or at minimum a major market team.

    Since there are no ping-pong balls to allocate during Free Agency lets allocate the $$$$$$$ available. I propose that the warm weather and major market teams be allowed starting salaries 90% of what small market or cold weather teams are allowed. Let us have the upper hand when it comes to dollars and it MIGHT help level the playing field just a bit. Afterall, a warm sunny climate is a perk that we cannot compete against.

    Failing to accomplish this then I see us needing to have a discussion about class basketball. (note tongue firmly planted in cheek on that comment)
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Well that would be nice but the NBA loves the big markets and really doesnt care about how well the small markets do. The NBA would love it if the Knicks and Spurs switched places the past decade because well, New York is a big time market. More money=happy NBA.

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    Member indyman37's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    I totally agree with you and I would love it if this happened. But then Mark Cuban would sue everyone...

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    What about teams like Atlanta and the Clippers? Big market, warm climate, and they still suck. You want to put them at a disadvantage, when they already can't attract FA's?

    And just because Miami and Orlando may have an "unfair" advantage, what has it done for them? Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, Eddie Jones, Brian Grant? Did you feel left out that we didn't have the opportunity to pay Rashard Lewis max money?

    As I remember, Duncan had a house in Orlando and he still turned down the Magic in 2000. And Kapono left South Beach to go to freakin' Canada.

    Location may hold some appeal, but in the larger scheme of things, it means squat.
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    What about teams like Atlanta and the Clippers? Big market, warm climate, and they still suck. You want to put them at a disadvantage, when they already can't attract FA's?

    And just because Miami and Orlando may have an "unfair" advantage, what has it done for them? Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, Eddie Jones, Brian Grant? Did you feel left out that we didn't have the opportunity to pay Rashard Lewis max money?

    As I remember, Duncan had a house in Orlando and he still turned down the Magic in 2000. And Kapono left South Beach to go to freakin' Canada.

    Location may hold some appeal, but in the larger scheme of things, it means squat.
    Interesting that you make this point because it was reported by Montieth that Kareem Rush had the opportunity to go to Miami for roughly the same of what the Pacers are paying him but turned it down because he liked OB's offense and the three point shooting that goes along with it.

    Whether he sees Indiana as a year in purgatory in order to prove his worth and then sign a long term deal elsewhere, who knows.

    But either way, I don't think market size is quite as important and some people make it out to be. I think that if a team like the Wolves, Bucks, or Pacers had Tim Duncan and Steve Nash and had the ability to sign or trade for Kobe without getting rid of those guys, Kobe would go there in a heartbeat despite all of his rhetoric.

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    What about teams like Atlanta and the Clippers? Big market, warm climate, and they still suck. You want to put them at a disadvantage, when they already can't attract FA's?

    And just because Miami and Orlando may have an "unfair" advantage, what has it done for them? Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, Eddie Jones, Brian Grant? Did you feel left out that we didn't have the opportunity to pay Rashard Lewis max money?

    As I remember, Duncan had a house in Orlando and he still turned down the Magic in 2000. And Kapono left South Beach to go to freakin' Canada.

    Location may hold some appeal, but in the larger scheme of things, it means squat.

    Oh they get calibrated number of ping-uh, dollars. Hey it's a thought, I'll leave it up to the mental giants to implement. I just dream em up. (I'm a concept man...somebody else is the movie director)
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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Free agency is fine. Plenty of cold-weather cities attract free agents.

    This seems to be singularly an Indiana problem, because I rarely hear any other fans complaining about warm-weather cities getting too much love...

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Free agency is fine. Plenty of cold-weather cities attract free agents.

    This seems to be singularly an Indiana problem, because I rarely hear any other fans complaining about warm-weather cities getting too much love...
    How big is Detroit????
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Interesting that you make this point because it was reported by Montieth that Kareem Rush had the opportunity to go to Miami for roughly the same of what the Pacers are paying him but turned it down because he liked OB's offense and the three point shooting that goes along with it.

    Whether he sees Indiana as a year in purgatory in order to prove his worth and then sign a long term deal elsewhere, who knows.

    But either way, I don't think market size is quite as important and some people make it out to be. I think that if a team like the Wolves, Bucks, or Pacers had Tim Duncan and Steve Nash and had the ability to sign or trade for Kobe without getting rid of those guys, Kobe would go there in a heartbeat despite all of his rhetoric.

    Rush also saw a greater opportunity for playing time with the Pacers. If he can't get off the bench, he can't prove himself to any team.
    Advantage - Pacers.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    How big is Detroit????
    oh, warm weather AND major market teams should be penalized? (Detroit is a major market?)

    OK, let's just call it how it is.

    All the free agents get penalized for not choosing to play for the Indiana Pacers.

    Satisfied?

    I mean, like 2 or 3 teams will also probably qualify as not being a major market OR a warm weather city, but I'm sure we can narrow down the rules a bit more....

    It seems less like you care about teams getting an equal chance at bringing big name FAs in, and more about the Pacers getting a better chance at brining big name FAs in...

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Sure Detroit is a BIG city, but it's a big city with a lot of economic problems.

    Just because a city has a lot of people doesn't mean that those people have the purchasing power to make that city an especially lucrative market.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    oh, warm weather AND major market teams should be penalized? (Detroit is a major market?)

    OK, let's just call it how it is.

    All the free agents get penalized for not choosing to play for the Indiana Pacers.

    Satisfied?
    I mean, like 2 or 3 teams will also probably qualify as not being a major market OR a warm weather city, but I'm sure we can narrow down the rules a bit more....

    It seems less like you care about teams getting an equal chance at bringing big name FAs in, and more about the Pacers getting a better chance at brining big name FAs in...

    Yep, that about covers it. Oh if push came to shove I'd let them include Memphis, Minnesota, and Milwaukee. I would even consider Cleveland (pre-LeBron).
    Cmon Stat I was jerkin your chain because of the crack you made about this Being an Indiana problem...like we belly ache about it constantly. To be honest, I may be the only one that's mentioned this so adding your Indiana stereotyping got my nose a bit outta joint.
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    How big is Detroit????
    Depends on if you include Auburn Hills where the Pistons play.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Given.....Cold Weather/small market teams are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to signing FAs.
    Two things overrule that most of the time. Money and being a contender, in that order, until players are late in their career. Then like Grant Hill they just want a chance at a ring.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Well Im not a big fan of the luxuary tax and I would like to see that get rid of, but giving small markets an advantage is stupid. I think for the most part if your under the cap and your willing to throw out money the FA's will come. We haven't been under the cap in a long time.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    You have to pursue FA's before you can get any. So, even if you changed every possible thing to allow the Pacers an advantage in acquiring a difference-maker FA, they'd still have to pursue them. That's not something that TPTB typically (historically) do.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    The problem with the Pacers and free agency has been that the Pacers have always been over the cap, once a cap was instituted, and, when the luxury tax arrived, the team was near or threatening to be over the luxury tax threshold. In abbreviated language, the Pacers have been too strapped by the rules to compete for high profile free agents.

    Rather than get into position to have the money to sign the more expensive free agents, the Pacers have chosen to invest heavily in players already on their roster.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    The Pacers really never go under the cap because we wouldn't be able to sign players anyway, so we operate on or above the cap all the time.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    I think what really ruins FA is the player's greed combined with guaranteed contracts. They're interested in $$$ and forgot about winning. It takes a special kind of character to keep on wanting to win when you're getting SO much money even if you lose. The salaries in the NBA have sky-rocketed in the last 10 years, and it's having its effect on the game, and on FA.

    Since the only way to be under the cap is to wait out contracts, or trade for expirings - it makes it tough for teams over the cap to do anything in FA, except the MLE.

    Now if you could anull contracts, or a buy-out that immediately comes off the books for a fixed and known amount, or something on those lines, which undermines the guaranteed part of the contract - then you can have both flexibility & competitiveness restored.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    OK, some will say it ain't broke but.........they "fixed" the draft/ping-pong ball situation didn't they?

    Given.....Cold Weather/small market teams are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to signing FAs. Players have the money and that gives them the freedom to select where they wish to play when FA time comes. Now I will admit that 99.9% of the time they sign with their current team so they can receive max $ and I have no problem with that. But when a player is willing to look at another team or is forced to by his current team walking away, then he will most assuradly go to a warm weather team or at minimum a major market team.

    Since there are no ping-pong balls to allocate during Free Agency lets allocate the $$$$$$$ available. I propose that the warm weather and major market teams be allowed starting salaries 90% of what small market or cold weather teams are allowed. Let us have the upper hand when it comes to dollars and it MIGHT help level the playing field just a bit. Afterall, a warm sunny climate is a perk that we cannot compete against.

    Failing to accomplish this then I see us needing to have a discussion about class basketball. (note tongue firmly planted in cheek on that comment)

    Damn, you would think that them there cold weather small market teams, would have enough sense to play their games indoors. Yep it is hard to shoot that rock with frost bitten hands.

    The NBA has a lot of problems, but this ain't one of them.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    I agree, I don't see it as a huge problem, the Pacers have some solid FA signings in the past, but we aren't really a team that goes after them very much, we usually build from within which I like better anyway.
    "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by NPFII View Post
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    Now if you could anull contracts, or a buy-out that immediately comes off the books for a fixed and known amount, or something on those lines, which undermines the guaranteed part of the contract - then you can have both flexibility & competitiveness restored.
    That's the whole reason there's a cap and/or luxury tax to begin with. If teams were allowed to buy out their "mistake" contracts after the fact then teams with unlimited finanicial resources like New York and LA would always be able to outspend the Milwaukees and Memphises (Memphisi?) of the world. It would be like the Sox and the Yanks being able to just eat $50 million contracts that they gave to bums and then sign up a more talented guy for another $50 million.

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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    What about teams like Atlanta and the Clippers? Big market, warm climate, and they still suck. You want to put them at a disadvantage, when they already can't attract FA's?

    And just because Miami and Orlando may have an "unfair" advantage, what has it done for them? Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, Eddie Jones, Brian Grant? Did you feel left out that we didn't have the opportunity to pay Rashard Lewis max money?

    As I remember, Duncan had a house in Orlando and he still turned down the Magic in 2000. And Kapono left South Beach to go to freakin' Canada.

    Location may hold some appeal, but in the larger scheme of things, it means squat.
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    Default Re: Let's fix Free Agency

    San Antonio is one of the biggest cities in America, bigger than Dallas in fact. Of course by TV market they aren't. Go figure. By population:

    NY
    LA
    CHI
    HOU

    PHX
    Philly
    SA
    San Diego
    Dallas
    San Jose

    Boy, San Diego is really having trouble getting FAs despite having the best weather in the country, great landscape and being a major market.

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