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Thread: A short question about Troy Murphy

  1. #51
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    So, are you complaining that Murphy is overpaid ( something that we are likely be stuck with for a long time no matter how much we think that hate it ) and that we can't move him cuz he is overpaid?

    or

    Are you "subtlely" complaining about TPTB ( the only Front Office stupid enough to take on "said" contract ) for accepting it in the first place and sticking us with an overpaid contract ( that is very difficult to move ) for a Jumpshooting PF that can hit the occasional 3pt shot, occasionally pull down a rebound while playing very little defense?
    Heh. I'm not subtle.

    I'm just frustrated that our highest-paid player isn't a part of our current or future plans, and he's not tradable.
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  2. #52
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Right. And now we're right back where we've started, except that we still haven't answered the question.

    If we went to every team in the league, one at a time, and asked "What would you give us for Troy Murphy?" would we get anything back that we'd like?
    The problem with your scenario, and this has been borne out time and again on here, is that we fans always want to rape the other team of their assets, so it's hard trying to answer your question and trusting people to respond objectively.

    First of all, EXCELLENT post, Jay. I think some of you might want to re-read it. He covered everything that has been mentioned to this point in a succinct, objective and to the point way. Too many have the "he's paid too much blinders on" and can't see anything else.

    Now as to the original question. like I said, and has been said by other's, it's all relative to team needs.

    I gave the Houston scenario, which is plausible. It's concievable that Luther Head could be part of the deal. We could use him.

    Look at Philly. Look at the discontent all season with Dalembert by Philly fans and his high salary. (Another player judged by his salary.) Another plausibility. We coiuld us him.

    I could go on ad nauseum, but hopefully you get my point.

    It's almost impossible to answer your question because there are literally thousands of possible trades scenarios that could make it a great deal for both guys. What you seem to be implying is "What could we get for Troy in a one for one trade"? We get your point. He's paid too much. HArd to get good one on one value. But once agin, I refer you to some of the very well made posts saying why that may not be that big of a deal and how value is relative.

    So to answer your question. it could be ANYONE given the scenario.

    [So yes, he can be tradable and yes, for my money, you are highly subjective on a player who, objectively, has had to fight through multiple injuries, multiple coaches and multiple systems you simply right him off as not being a viable part of our future. Closed minded, from where I sit. For the zillionth time, i refere you to some of the above posts, which you've yet to adress as to WHY Troy's game is where it is.]
    Last edited by Skaut_Ech; 06-26-2007 at 12:14 PM.
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  3. #53
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Heh. I'm not subtle.

    I'm just frustrated that our highest-paid player isn't a part of our current or future plans, and he's not tradable.
    Since he's not tradeable.....isn't he pretty much part of our future plans?

    If anything...he's gonna be a supporting role-player ( overpaid as it is ) for whatever young core of players that we have in the future.
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  4. #54
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    the best hope we can have is that within o'brien's system he can excel leading us to either decide he is worth the cost or give us teams that would be interested in taking him off our hands.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by kerosene View Post
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    I think Murphy leads the league in getting his shots blocked. If not overall then perhaps BPM (blocked per minute)?
    Links?
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  6. #56
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Here's the Troy Murphy as a Warrior story straight from a Warrior fan.

    Murphy was definitely a fan favorite his first two years in the league with the Warriors. He made good plays. Seemed pretty mobile for a guy his size and seemed like he had a good feel for the game. Dunked on Dale Davis and stared at him. Fans loved him.

    Then the Warriors' management (as has happened a lot) deluded themselves into thinking that Murphy might be another Brad Miller (Miller when he was at the top of his game, anways).

    They bulked him up after his rookie year. They had him try to play inside. It worked reasonably well his 2nd year (which I still think was his best year in the NBA). The summer before his 3rd year, they decided that he was never going to be much of an inside scorer, so they had him practice 3s the whole summer.

    Seemed like a good idea, but that was when his injuries started creeping in. Plantar fascitas (sp?) limited him to something like 26 games in his 3rd year. He came back towards the end of the year. Immediately, it became obvious that he had a lost a lot of mobility and lift.

    Immediately following, Mullin dishes out a $58M deal to a player who just came off a season in which he played only 26 games. He got totally abused by Dan Fegan at the table. Big mistake.

    Murphy comes back the following season and lays one huge stinkbomb. Despite averaging a double/double, he shoots 41% from the field (that's 41% from the starting PF). He gets his shot blocked by players big and small. He gets booed and this is when fans start to realize that he's gotten complacent, lazy and slothlike. We also began to notice that he was an extremely poor finisher inside. He wasn't very clever around the basket. He'd always use the same shooting motion and release point whether he was 10 feet or 2 feet away from the basket. This (plus his loss of mobility and lift) made it very easy for defenders big and small to anticipate when to block his shot. He got roofed quite often to put it kindly.

    The year after that he played a little bit better. Better shooting %, slightly better defense. He got off to a BLAZING start, but it became obvious that he started wearing down as the season progressed. That's when it became clear to everyone that Murphy had neither the stamina or athleticism to be a starting PF. Physically, he just became very below average by NBA standards and he didn't have enough of a basketball game to compensate for it.

    The next year, Nellie came aboard and everyone from RealGM to Marc Stein figured this was exactly what Murphy needed. Nellie recognized the lack of athleticism on the part of Murphy and Dunleavy. He figured the only way to get something out of them was to play each at center and powerforward in hopes of gaining a quickness advantage. Opening night: We get blown out by a Laker team that was played w/o Kobe. Murphleavy looked horrible. Nellie totally scraps the plan after 1 game.

    He tries different combos with Murphy starting at C, starting at PF and coming off the bench. Finally, Nellie's had it; he straight up tells Mullin "I can't win with these guys." Mullin tried all summer long to peddle Murphy for Harrington to no avail (Hawks wanted no part of Murphy's contract). He still wanted to do the deal into the season, but the Pacers probably wanted Ike involved as well as a swap of Dunleavy for Jackson. Mullin was very reluctant to do this, but Nellie came as close as you could to saying "Make this trade or I'm quitting" without actually making that ultimatum. Then the trade.

    That's kind of the Troy Murphy story in GS.

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  7. #57

    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    Links?
    Not Murphy, not O'Neal,

    ZAZA.


    http://www.82games.com/random3.htm

    Team Player FGA Blk'd Blk%
    ATL Pachulia 386 51 13.2%
    PHI Salmons 289 37 12.8%
    NJN Krstic 455 56 12.3%
    ATL Williams 244 30 12.3%
    POR Patterson 298 34 11.4%
    HOU Swift 255 28 11.0%
    MEM Wright 246 27 11.0%
    ORL Howard 455 49 10.8%
    BOS Jefferson 307 33 10.7%
    SAC Abdur-Rahim 365 39 10.7%


    This obviously wasn't for last season (Swift, Ruben Patterson, maybe others were on different teams)

  8. #58
    Member Roferr's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Sure, Murphy is overpaid. It's not his fault and it doesn't do any good to keep harping on it. Every team has a bad contract or two and some teams have several.

    He's had a half season with us playing under a coach-by-numbers guy. Granted, he didn't look all that great. However, with a new coach, I'm looking at the glass as half full. He's not as worthless as you keep trying to make him seem.

    I can see him excelling in a particular role coming off the bench for 20 mpg or so or playing more minutes playing match-up with a particular team.

    Some posters have portrayed Murph in depth and I feel he is not the albatross that you do.
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Not Murphy, not O'Neal,

    ZAZA.


    http://www.82games.com/random3.htm

    Team Player FGA Blk'd Blk%
    ATL Pachulia 386 51 13.2%
    PHI Salmons 289 37 12.8%
    NJN Krstic 455 56 12.3%
    ATL Williams 244 30 12.3%
    POR Patterson 298 34 11.4%
    HOU Swift 255 28 11.0%
    MEM Wright 246 27 11.0%
    ORL Howard 455 49 10.8%
    BOS Jefferson 307 33 10.7%
    SAC Abdur-Rahim 365 39 10.7%


    This obviously wasn't for last season (Swift, Ruben Patterson, maybe others were on different teams)
    Not even being for last season, it still gives a solid picture. Murph and JO aren't even close to getting their shots blocked the most, in fact JO placed in the top 10 in the least blocked shots, close in.

    Thanks for the link.
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  10. #60
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    Not even being for last season, it still gives a solid picture. Murph and JO aren't even close to getting their shots blocked the most, in fact JO placed in the top 10 in the least blocked shots, close in.

    Thanks for the link.
    Wrong O'Neal.

    Jermaine himself is linked in the description at the top, and if I'm reading it right, his blocked percentage is 7%. 11% inside, 6% on jumpers, and since he shoots twice as many jumpers as inside shots, it comes out as 7%.

    IOW, since his offensive game has moved away from the basket, his blocked percentage has gone down. Too bad his FG% has, too.
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  11. #61
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Wrong O'Neal.

    Jermaine himself is linked in the description at the top, and if I'm reading it right, his blocked percentage is 7%. 11% inside, 6% on jumpers, and since he shoots twice as many jumpers as inside shots, it comes out as 7%.

    IOW, since his offensive game has moved away from the basket, his blocked percentage has gone down. Too bad his FG% has, too.
    That linked to 05-06.

    Here's '06-07:

    http://www.82games.com/0607/06IND17A.HTM

    He got a lot of layups swatted due to injury and lack of explosion around the hoop.

    He really needs a jump hook.......
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  12. #62
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    I'm not sure I understand their criteria. What's the difference between "close" and "inside"?
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    I applaud Skaut and Jay's posts and I'm surprised at how they're being ignored.

  14. #64

    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    I pretty much always agree with Skaut, but I always hate to say so since it makes his head get big.


  15. #65
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    /beginrant

    I'm not. I'm certainly not a huge fan of Murphy and I never want to see him matched up against Rasheed Wallace again. My eyes have scars.

    But the over-the-top bashing (believe me, I'm all-for being critical of the players and management when it is reasonable to do so) is just blowing my mind.

    I can think of plenty of reasonable, critical things to say about all of players and management, and I can think of plenty of reasonable, complimentary things to say about all of our players and management (except Foster, of course).

    But the summer "silly season" - especially at the end of a very frustrating season highlighted by the Pacers trading chemistry problems for overpaid but ordinary players - is getting absurd.

    Next thing you know, UncleBuck will totally undermine his forum MVP award and say something utterly silly like, "I wonder if any team in the NBA wants JO?". Give me a break. Every team in the league wants JO. Now, they may not be willing to give up what it takes, or they may not even have what it takes, but this is laughable.

    I'm quite certain of one thing, there's one team in the NBA that wants Jermaine O'Neal badly enough that they're not going to take a low-ball offer to give up thier best player.

    I certainly understand being cranky about this team. I've said this before but my Dad always teases me and says, "You're only happy about the Pacers when you're not happy about the Pacers." But good gracious, have a little balance, people...

    /endrant
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  16. #66
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    Default Re: A short question about Troy Murphy

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    That linked to 05-06.

    Here's '06-07:

    http://www.82games.com/0607/06IND17A.HTM

    He got a lot of layups swatted due to injury and lack of explosion around the hoop.

    He really needs a jump hook.......
    Ouch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I'm not sure I understand their criteria. What's the difference between "close" and "inside"?
    "Inside" is a combination of "Close", "Dunks", and "Tips". You can tell by the attempt percentages.
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