Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

    Given all the concern about our team's woeful shooting ability, I thought this would interest some of yall.

    I've always been of the mindset that, when it really comes down to it, most people can basically either shoot or they can't, but it's nice to see a high-profile case of a shooting coach making someone significantly better in such a short time by changing technique.

    So hey Marquis, give this guy a call.

    (My favorite line in here is the shooting coach's description of what's it was like working with Steve Kerr.)

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playo...t&lid=tab2pos2

    Parker's improved jumper could score him Finals MVP award
    By John Hollinger
    ESPN Insider

    CLEVELAND -- Two years ago, the San Antonio Spurs won an NBA title. But Tony Parker wasn't necessarily happy.

    Then 23 years old, the point guard had been a bit player in the deciding seventh game, as Parker's inability to connect from outside against the Pistons' mighty defense limited him to a 3-for-11, eight-point performance. The Spurs periodically sat Parker and used a combo of Brent Barry and Manu Ginobili to play the point in that series, and after Game 7, writers debated whether the Spurs would even bring Parker back the next year.

    Parker has silenced his critics with his inspired play in the Finals.
    The 2007 Finals couldn't be more different. The French flash is likely to be named series MVP if the Spurs close things out in Thursday's Game 4, after Parker again made a couple of big shots down the stretch to win Game 3 -- including a rare 3-pointer with a minute left to hold the Cavs at bay.

    That's no accident. It's the culmination of a two-year process that saw him completely rebuild his jump shot and then torment Cleveland with the new weapon in this year's Finals.

    Right after the 2005 Finals, Parker made the decision that he wanted to improve. He didn't care that he was a world champion point guard making near-max money and dating a hugely popular TV star; he was frustrated that his shaky jump shot was having such a negative impact on his game.

    Enter Chip Engelland. Hired that offseason as a shooting coach by the Spurs after he'd previously plied his trade in Denver, Engelland helped rebuild Parker's jump shot piece by piece. The slingshot-like set shot that Parker entered the league with -- now gone forever -- was replaced by a smoother jumper that has repeatedly made the Cavaliers pay for going under the screen to take away his driving lanes.

    For Parker, it was the right coach at the right time.

    "Timing is important," Engelland said, "because when you play in the NBA, you always think you're just going to keep getting better. [But] the NBA is hard, and then you plateau, and that timing is good [for fixing a shot]."

    And there was definitely some fixing to do.

    "In the first few years [of Parker's career], whenever he'd shoot it, I just figured it was going to be a turnover, same as a turnover -- there's no way that's going in," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But in the last year and a half when he shoots it, I actually think it's going to go in, so he's changed me quite a bit. But that's due to his work and Chip Engelland, who's really worked hard on him."

    "Tony, even though he won a championship that year, wanted to get better," Engelland said. "That's where I give him a ton of credit. His summer time, he wanted to work at something he's not good at. That's uncomfortable."

    They had to start from the bottom up, and that required Engelland to establish trust with Parker before he could start working on his jumper. Former Spurs GM and current Cavs GM Danny Ferry said Engelland's patience with players is one of his greatest assets -- that he'd focus on developing the relationship so that players would trust his advice on fixing the shot.

    Parker's hard work is paying off big time for the Spurs.
    "We got to know each other first," Engelland said. "We did a lot of talking with him, where he wanted to go. Tony wants to be great. So [I said] what it takes -- he has to have a consistent jump shot and his free throw has to improve.

    "I think the most important thing, and this is true for every player, their shot is personal. Whether it's a 12-year-old girl or an [NBA player], it's their own shot. It's theirs, it's personal. When I talk to a player at any level ... I don't come in and disrespect their shot."

    That helps him establish a rapport with his pupils, and from there he can start tweaking. One of the key examples Engelland used to help Parker come to grips with rebuilding his jumper was Tiger Woods. Parker is a huge Tiger fan, and once he learned Tiger redid his whole swing after crushing the field in the Masters for his first major victory, that made Parker far more receptive to the idea of working on his own game.

    "It takes a lot of trust," Engelland said. "It's hard to want to get better at something."

    An important first step was getting Parker to abandon the 3-point shot. After going 8-for-45 on that shot in the 2005 postseason, perhaps it didn't require much convincing. Parker went from taking 153 3-pointers in the 2004-05 regular season to just 36 last season and 38 this season.

    Focusing on short jumpers, Engelland went to work on Parker: "We started with the basics, the very basics: balance, hand placement on the ball, follow through, what he watches, his target. He's done it great. He did a good job listening, practicing. It's not easy to do."

    One of the keys was changing Parker's thumb position on the ball. Engelland said when Parker shoots a floater -- something he does as well as anyone in the league -- his thumb is in the correct position, at nearly a right angle to the rest of his hand, so that he can keep control over the ball. But on his jumper, the thumb often was close by his fingers, and as a result the ball would frequently come off the side of his hand.

    Thanks to that fix and others like it, the results have been obvious, and not just in the last three games. Parker had never shot better than 33.3 percent on 3-pointers, or 75.5 percent on free throws before this season. This year those two numbers were way up -- 39.5 percent from downtown, albeit on fewer attempts, and an impressive 78.3 percent from the stripe.

    Dig a little deeper, and you'll see Parker's midrange game has improved, too. His percentages on 2-pointers that aren't layups, and on 2-pointers that are outside the key, have both improved under Engelland's tutelage (see chart).


    Tony Parker: Improvement by shot type

    ---------------- 2004-05 / 2005-06 / 2006-07 / CHANGE

    Free throw % /// 65.0 // 70.7 // 78.3 // +13.3
    Non-layup 2s % /// 36.8 // 39.7 // 40.8 // +4.0
    2-point jumper % /// 39.3 // 41.6 // 41.2 // +1.9
    2-point jumper att. /// 24 // 43 // 53 // 391 // +147
    3-point % /// 27.6 // 30.6 // 39.5 // +11.9
    3-point att. /// 153 // 36 // 38 // -115



    And this is despite the fact that he's attempting far more of both types of shots than he used to -- something that usually brings percentages down. In 2004-05, only 21.7 percent of his shot attempts were from that distance. But with his increasing confidence in his ability to knock the shot down, that increased to 31.1 percent last season and 35.8 percent this year.

    Parker's newfound consistency is turning the scouting report against him upside down. Previously, teams would dare him to shoot from outside and focus on taking away his drives to the basket. But his rebuilt shooting stroke has left opponents in a quandary.

    "Against Phoenix, they tried to do the same strategy," Parker said. "They put Shawn Marion on me and he was going under, and I start knocking down shots and then they have to come out. And that's when you penetrate again, and that's when you try to get back to the basket and get some stuff going for my teammates or for myself. The whole key is to make sure I shoot with confidence."

    So with Parker burning the Cavs from outside -- even throwing in a rare triple in crunch time to help hold off Cleveland -- Engelland was feeling like a proud parent after Game 3. "I'm happy for him," Engelland said. "I just like his consistency. ... He's just been solid in the playoffs. ... I think that's what coach Popovich wants -- he's so talented that he just wants for him to be consistent."

    Parker isn't Engelland's only client. Engelland got his start in the business working with ex-Spurs guard Steve Kerr -- "like being the Maytag repairman," Engelland joked -- and worked with Grant Hill and several Nuggets before coming to San Antonio. Since joining the Spurs, he's also helped rebuild the jumpers of two other historically wayward shooters who have had strong playoffs -- Fabricio Oberto and Jacque Vaughn.

    But his most famous client at this point is Parker, because he's shining on the league's biggest stage and brimming with confidence.

    "I feel a lot more comfortable," Parker said. "I think that's what one of my limits was, you know, early in my career. I always had, like, great games and then they'd adapt, and I don't think I was shooting well enough from the outside to be consistent in a series. I think the last two years, you know, all the work I put in with Chip, I feel very comfortable and I've got a lot more confidence to knock down that shot."

    He'd better get comfortable being an NBA Finals MVP, too. Because despite Parker's series-long protestations that this is Tim Duncan's team, his rebuilt jumper is about to put him in the history books alongside some of the game's greatest stars.

    John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider.
    Read my Pacers blog:
    8points9seconds.com

    Follow my twitter:

    @8pts9secs


  • #2
    Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

    Hmm, I wonder what the difference between a non-layup 2 and a 2pt jumper are?

    Anyway, as I was saying to Anthem in another thread, you can keep the middle open without having to go behind the arc. Mid-range jumpers have seemingly become a lost art (though for all I know the % and Attempt on them could be up in recent years, I haven't checked) but they are very effective in keeping defenses honest.

    Plus if you have a decent frontline it means shorter rebounds for them to go after than if you miss a 3 (typically).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

      Along the same lines as this topic....I was watching some NBA TV spot recently about the Mavericks hiring a FT specialist to training and work with all their players to improve on their FT technique. This guy poured over tapes for each player and taught them how to properly shoot the ball during a FT...even adjusting bad habits that caused a player to miss a FT. The result? The Mavs are one of the best FT shooting teams in the league because of this guy.

      The lesson...as both these stories illustrate...is that little things like these...bringing in specialists....whether its a true "Big Man" trainer ( that can help a certain Hulklike player ) or shooting specialist....can make a difference. And what we learn in the playoffs...is that its the "little things" that make a difference.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
        Hmm, I wonder what the difference between a non-layup 2 and a 2pt jumper are?

        Anyway, as I was saying to Anthem in another thread, you can keep the middle open without having to go behind the arc. Mid-range jumpers have seemingly become a lost art (though for all I know the % and Attempt on them could be up in recent years, I haven't checked) but they are very effective in keeping defenses honest.

        Plus if you have a decent frontline it means shorter rebounds for them to go after than if you miss a 3 (typically).
        I think it would be a pretty good lesson for many of today's young players to look how drastically both Parker and Luol Deng have improved their games by simply not trying to do something they're don't do at a high-level (take threes).

        It's also notable that both DWade's and Rip realize this and don't even bother taking many threes. And they are probably the two best midrange guys in the League.
        Read my Pacers blog:
        8points9seconds.com

        Follow my twitter:

        @8pts9secs

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
          Along the same lines as this topic....I was watching some NBA TV spot recently about the Mavericks hiring a FT specialist to training and work with all their players to improve on their FT technique. This guy poured over tapes for each player and taught them how to properly shoot the ball during a FT...even adjusting bad habits that caused a player to miss a FT. The result? The Mavs are one of the best FT shooting teams in the league because of this guy.
          Apparently the Pacers are in "cost cutting mode" or something but this is a very good idea that the team should really consider. People tend to forget to realize how important free throws really are. Very often the Pacers, or any other team for that matter will lose a game by lets say, 7 points, and miss 10 free throws, and these missed free throws aren't looked at, at least by the media, as something that directly caused the losing team to lose.

          We're in an NBA right now that worships athleticism and potential over skill. That's one of the reasons why there are less good shooters, and less good free throw shooters, out there. Everyone wants to drive to the basket like MJ but they aren't as good at it as MJ and they also don't possess his outside shot. A free throw coach like this could be a hell of a "secret" weapon.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

            Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
            I think it would be a pretty good lesson for many of today's young players to look how drastically both Parker and Luol Deng have improved their games by simply not trying to do something they're don't do at a high-level (take threes).

            It's also notable that both DWade's and Rip realize this and don't even bother taking many threes. And they are probably the two best midrange guys in the League.
            Actually Rip has worked to add that shot to his game, but your point is still valid because he hasn't pushed up his attempts very much, and not at all while his % was still low. The better he got with it the more he was willing to use it.

            Yeah, both just punish people inside the arc. That's where Quis is to me and he also seems to know it, though his 3PA did jump up in Indy but still well below the "regular user" level.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

              Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
              I think it would be a pretty good lesson for many of today's young players to look how drastically both Parker and Luol Deng have improved their games by simply not trying to do something they're don't do at a high-level (take threes).
              funny...i was at the park with my kids the other day, and a young man steps out on the court, and starts jacking up 3 pointers...missing every one of them.

              i started rebounding for him, and after a few misses, I asked him if he wanted some advice...he thought about it, and then walked over to me to listen more.

              I started him shooting layups, and then moved him out to about 10 ft. Then out to about 15 ft. He was canning them left and right. made WAY more than he missed.

              then I asked him which shot he thinks would give him more points at the end of the game...and he just smiled.

              Then I told him not to abandon the 3 pointer...but he needs to warm up with shorter range shots before he starts jacking up 3's. He stepped back out beyond the arc, and started hitting a few of them.
              Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
              - Margaret Mead

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

                Originally posted by dcpacersfan View Post
                Apparently the Pacers are in "cost cutting mode" or something but this is a very good idea that the team should really consider. People tend to forget to realize how important free throws really are. Very often the Pacers, or any other team for that matter will lose a game by lets say, 7 points, and miss 10 free throws, and these missed free throws aren't looked at, at least by the media, as something that directly caused the losing team to lose.

                We're in an NBA right now that worships athleticism and potential over skill. That's one of the reasons why there are less good shooters, and less good free throw shooters, out there. Everyone wants to drive to the basket like MJ but they aren't as good at it as MJ and they also don't possess his outside shot. A free throw coach like this could be a hell of a "secret" weapon.
                I agree that all teams need to employ expert shooting coaches (and I imagine they all do).

                But I think a key component to Parker's turnaround was this issue in the article of trust and he himself really being the one that wanted to remake his shooting stroke. I don't know that Jamaal or Marquis would show such a commitment (not basing anything on their personality, just mention those two because they could both use improvement).

                Or even moreso, someone like Shawn Marion. He's already a pretty good shooter, but I for one believe if he did a Tiger Woods-style reinvention of his entire form, he could be even better. But already having some success with his current form, (and his age would probably be a factor) I doubt he'd ever be even willing to consider it.

                In short, I think true buy-in from the player is imperative to the whole notion of improvement. And many guys probably feel like "I got myself this far, so why buy-in 100% to what some 'expert' is telling me to do?"
                Read my Pacers blog:
                8points9seconds.com

                Follow my twitter:

                @8pts9secs

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

                  Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                  I agree that all teams need to employ expert shooting coaches (and I imagine they all do).

                  But I think a key component to Parker's turnaround was this issue in the article of trust and he himself really being the one that wanted to remake his shooting stroke. I don't know that Jamaal or Marquis would show such a commitment (not basing anything on their personality, just mention those two because they could both use improvement).

                  Or even moreso, someone like Shawn Marion. He's already a pretty good shooter, but I for one believe if he did a Tiger Woods-style reinvention of his entire form, he could be even better. But already having some success with his current form, (and his age would probably be a factor) I doubt he'd ever be even willing to consider it.

                  In short, I think true buy-in from the player is imperative to the whole notion of improvement. And many guys probably feel like "I got myself this far, so why buy-in 100% to what some 'expert' is telling me to do?"
                  i have thought about Marion using a coach as well, but his shot is SO odd, that I think if he tried to make any changes to it, it would mean sure disaster for his career...

                  The fundamentals of his jump shot are worse that the fundamentals of Charles Barkley's golf shot...difference being that Marion's fundamentals work for him. Barkley sucks at golf. LOL.
                  Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
                  - Margaret Mead

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

                    mark montieth blogged about the same topic recently, but i don't think the article was posted in pd. too bad chuck isn't staying as shooting coach.

                    btw, i'm a fan of chip engelland

                    http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...a_whose_t.html

                    Originally posted by Mark Montieth
                    An idea whose time has come
                    Posted by Mark Montieth

                    One of the Pacers’ off-season goals is to find a perimeter shooter. It’s a legitimate need, but it stops short of the ultimate issue. What they really need is to improve the shooters they already have, which means they need a shooting coach or two.

                    I know exactly who they should hire.

                    Make no mistake, Jim O’Brien lets his shooters shoot. Consider that O’Brien’s Boston team attempted 1,946 3-pointers in 2001-02, when it reached the conference finals, and 2,155 the following season. Then consider that the Pacers’ single-season record for attempted 3-pointers is 1,575 by the 2004-05 post-brawl team, and you get the idea of how far he's willing to go in his offense.

                    O’Brien’s system with the Pacers probably won’t be as freewheeling as in his previous stops because they’re likely to have a legitimate low-post scoring threat _ if not Jermaine O’Neal, then Ike Diogu. He didn’t really have anyone like that in Boston or Philadelphia. Still, it wouldn’t be surprising if the Pacers set a franchise record for 3-point attempts next season if they can find the qualified shooters. But what good is having a new weapons system if you don't have enough people who can use it.?

                    Here’s who they have at the moment:

                    * Jamaal Tinsley, who hit 37 percent of his 3-pointers in consecutive seasons, but has regressed the past two years. He hit 32 percent last season.

                    * Mike Dunleavy, who hit 40 percent of his 3-pointers his third season in the NBA, but hit just 28 percent of his attempts after his trade to the Pacers last season.

                    * Marquis Daniels, who is more a scorer than a shooter, but could advance his career significantly if he could knock down an occasional jump shot. He hit 23 percent of his 3-pointers last season.

                    * Danny Granger, who showed improvement last season by hitting 38 percent of his 3-pointers, but still has flaws in his form.

                    * Shawne Williams, who hit 37 percent last season, but has plenty of room _ and time _ to improve.

                    Troy Murphy, who hit 40 percent of his 3-pointers with the Pacers last season, might be the only shooter whose shot should be left alone. The futures of Keith McLeod, Orien Greene and Darrell Armstrong are uncertain, but Greene in particular needs to improve. Greene, in fact, could save his career if he developed a dependable jump shot.

                    The Pacers haven’t often hired coaching specialists, but it's hardly a revolutionary concept. This is the perfect time to do it. Chuck Person seemed to work successfully with some of the players a few years ago before he joined the bench as a fulltime assistant. Fred Jones and Tinsley both made dramatic improvements in their 3-point shooting percentages, and Person appeared to be at least partially responsible for that. They both later regressed, however, so it’s difficult to know where to assign credit or blame.

                    It doesn’t appear that Person will be retained on the Pacers’ coaching staff, however, so who do they look to?

                    Billy Keller and/or Rick Mount, that's who.

                    Mount turned 60 in January and Keller turns 60 in August, but I’d bet on either of them in a high-stakes game of H-O-R-S-E with any of the current Pacers. Keller was the Indianapolis Star’s Indiana Mr. Basketball in 1965, Mount in ’66. They were the starting backcourt on Purdue’s NCAA tournament finalist in 1969. Both played for the Pacers.

                    More relevant than all that, they’re both experienced and qualified shooting coaches. What’s to lose?

                    Keller would love to do it. I believe Mount could be convinced, too. He has unhappy memories of his two seasons with the franchise and has kept his distance all these years. Donnie Walsh called him twice to invite him to the celebration honoring the state’s top 50 players when Conseco Fieldhouse opened in 1999, but he declined. This is an opportunity to bring him back into the fold. Just getting him in the building would be a start.

                    Hiring Keller or Mount would be more than a great public relations gesture at a time the Pacers could use one. It makes perfect sense from a coaching perspective, too.

                    In fact, it would be negligent not to give it a shot.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

                      Hey, I responsed to Mark's blog about a couple of errors (Conseco opening in 97 and the 2000 team having the Pacers high mark of 3PAs) and he fixed them by the time you copied it Winter.

                      Thanks for noticing Mark, I like the rework of the 3pt part since that wasn't just a digit change.


                      I also would assume teams have shooting coaches around, but then I also assume Mark is around the team enough to know if they do or not, so him blogging about them looking at Keller/Mount tells me they don't. At least not of that caliber and at a very serious fundamentals level.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

                        I'm assuming Chuck will move back to his front-office role, which is what he was doing when he worked with Tinsley, Artest, and JO in the first place, so even if he's not sitting on the bench he can still help out this way.

                        Especially since Rick decided not to stay in the front office...
                        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                        And life itself, rushing over me
                        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

                          Originally posted by Jay View Post
                          I'm assuming Chuck will move back to his front-office role, which is what he was doing when he worked with Tinsley, Artest, and JO in the first place, so even if he's not sitting on the bench he can still help out this way.
                          I hope you are right about this.

                          I liked Chuck. I don't see why he wasn't offered an assistant spot especially since we ended up with some average NAIA coach but whatever. We have Harter and Cooner so those two alone makes the staff pretty good IMO.

                          But Tony Parker has done a great job of improving his game. If he can continue to play consistant umm the Spurs would be pretty much unstoppable. Parker is the most efficient scoring point in the league today. He can shoot the 3, hit the mid range j, or hit floaters and runners and such. I think Mike Bibby use to be the best all around scoring point guard but Parker has surpassed him this year with his jumper being even more improved.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

                            as far as keller and mount? i don't see why we shouldn't try everything to improve the shooting on this team. similarly, i'd like to see a big man coach (ESPECIALLY if we get bynum). what about a rik smits and dale davis tandem, since we probably can't lock up ewing or someone of that nature.
                            This is the darkest timeline.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Great Article About Frenchie Improving Jumper

                              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                              Hey, I responsed to Mark's blog about a couple of errors (Conseco opening in 97 and the 2000 team having the Pacers high mark of 3PAs) and he fixed them by the time you copied it Winter.
                              i was going to update my post but i don't find any changes in mark's blog. maybe some staffer archived the older version?

                              http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsi...a_whose_t.html

                              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                              I also would assume teams have shooting coaches around, but then I also assume Mark is around the team enough to know if they do or not, so him blogging about them looking at Keller/Mount tells me they don't. At least not of that caliber and at a very serious fundamentals level.
                              yeah, i thought of that too. but i don't think montieth would step on the toes of a current shooting coach, if there is one. mayhap there's a generic player development guy, but not a dedicated shooting coach as mark is suggesting nor a dedicated big man coach which a lot of pd'ers want.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X