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Thread: 1999/2000 Finals

  1. #51
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    I'm talking about how good the team would have been in 2001. A year older without Smits or any lost post scorer. As it was the 2000 team nearly lost to the Bucks and the year before crumbled against the Knicks. They weren't an all time great team.

    In 2000/2001 there were 7 teams out West with 50 or more wins. The Spurs, Kings, Lakers were all better. Maybe lub., Dallas and Portland were.
    Ah. Sorry. I understand and agree with your assessment. The team was headed down at that point. Actually, it was already headed down by 1999. If they had been able to get by Chicago in 1998, they would have won it all. I actually believe they were the best team in the NBA that year...but MJ got it done.

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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    AH! If Reggie hits that 3 to win it in game 4, I think we win the championship. It was online as well.

    Kobe was unreal in that game as well!
    I just watched that game for the first time today. During that finals, I had just started a new job on second shift, so I missed the whole damn series. I never realized we were so close to winning that series.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by judolphin View Post
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    Is it bad for me to admit that Mully and Perkins were two of my favorite bench players of all time (for the Pacers, that is)

    I used to love hearing "The Big Smooooooooooooooooooooooth" from the PA guy
    Oh, Smooth was great. However, that reminds me, add another to the list: "Rik and Dale's presence would have magically kept Sam from falling apart in '01."
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  4. #54
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by judolphin View Post
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    I wanted Reggie to pump fake that soooooo bad

    I dont think he realized how much time he had left, but whats done is done
    I think he said after the fact he should have passed it to Rik, who was open. Seeing how hot Rik was in OT, that may have been a good idea.

    Of course, we should remember that, if we'd won that game, LA probably wouldn't have taken game 5 off like they did. It's very difficult to win the middle 3, even for such a great home team like we were. For all we know, Stern might have assigned Bavetta to every remaining game.
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  5. #55
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    You are SOOOO right, Anthem. That team was finished and in a severe decline. Thank God we didn't have to suffer thru anymore of those failures and were able to finally get a player who could "throw down". Yes, that team was D.O.N.E.. And all that experience... who needs that when you can have potential?

    No arguments from me. How could anyone argue with your facts that clearly show they were finished and far beyond tweaking?
    Great gravy, man, get a grip. Smits was done, regardless of anything else that happened. There was no changing that. Jack wanted more than a 4-year contract, even though we offered him more money than Toronto. No changing that either. Mully got absolutely destroyed in the Finals, it was clear he was done. No changing that. Once you lose your center, your point guard, and your wingman, the same team isn't coming back. It's a pipe dream.

    You constantly complain that Donnie just wants to win in the regular season, but not in the postseason. Well guess what: if we'd have kept Dale along with Reggie and Rose, we'd have won a decent number of regular season games, but there's no way we get back to the Finals. Trading for Jermaine a shot at grabbing the next great big man. It was a shot at doing more than just winning in the regular season.

    We could tweak all we wanted, but that wasn't going to get us back to the Finals. TPTB made a gamble by reloading around Jermaine instead of sticking with Jalen Rose. Donnie rolled the dice, and it didn't come out our way. I'd rather that we try for postseason success and fail than be happy with a mediocre team year after year after year.
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  6. #56
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    I miss Smits
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh4d3 View Post
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    Boy, it sure is a good thing the Lakers (who beat the Pacers in 6 games in 2000) didn't get even better and make it back to the Finals the following season.

    Oh, wait...

    That team wasn't going to get by the Lakers. All we would have succeeded in doing is becoming the has-been Celtics, but without any of the championships.

    In addition, Rick retired, and Jax had a "spiritual awakening" or something.

    That team was done.
    Cleveland doesn't stand a chance against the Pistons. They play the games for a reason. At least we would have BEEN THERE to find out!

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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    It's been 7 years. Nobody's gonna change their mind on this. If someone wants to believe that we could have won it all by throwing money at Jax, not trading Dale, and not releasing Mully, that's fine. If they want to rewrite history and say that Larry left because of those moves, not before, and they choose to believe that Rik retired from professional basketball out of protest, and not because of his feet, that's okay too.
    But...but... ISIAH would have been our coach! 2001 Champions, baby!

  9. #59

    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Cleveland doesn't stand a chance against the Pistons. They play the games for a reason. At least we would have BEEN THERE to find out!
    Who would have been on that team?

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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    Who would have been on that team?
    Yeah, I wrote that before reading on to be reminded of the unlikelihood of keeping the team together.

    Still, I hate the assumption people make that even if the same team came back, we stood no chance. Bull****.

  11. #61

    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    The 2001 Lakers had one of the most impressive playoff runs ever. The swept Portland, the Kings and the Spurs. I love the Pacers. I loved those 98-00 teams. I love Dick Harter, but I can't say if somehow we could have brought that team back they would have fared better.

  12. #62

    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    IMO, the 2000 Pacers team would have defeated the 2004 team by virtue of experience alone. The only player who legitimately stopped them was Shaq. I don't think he scored less than 20 pts in any game during that 2000 Finals series. Remove him from the equation and the Pacers win easily.

    Rik and D2 tried, but even their combined efforts weren't good enough to stop Shaq.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    The 2001 Lakers had one of the most impressive playoff runs ever. The swept Portland, the Kings and the Spurs. I love the Pacers. I loved those 98-00 teams. I love Dick Harter, but I can't say if somehow we could have brought that team back they would have fared better.
    I'm confinced that had the 2000 Pacers team returned for 2001 including Bird and his coaching staff, they would have returned to the NBA Finals again that year. No doubt about it.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 06-11-2007 at 11:10 AM.

  13. #63
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Cleveland doesn't stand a chance against the Pistons. They play the games for a reason. At least we would have BEEN THERE to find out!
    You're preaching to the wrong choir with that comparison.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Yeah, I wrote that before reading on to be reminded of the unlikelihood of keeping the team together.

    Still, I hate the assumption people make that even if the same team came back, we stood no chance. Bull****.
    I agree. Honestly I think just keeping Jax might have been enough, along with NOT HIRING ZEKE.

    Hate Rick all you want, tell me the players didn't want him, but his first year just a few years later took a more volitile mix of players to the ECF and 61 wins (home court throughout).

    Rick returns, someone calms Reggie and whoever else didn't want him, Jax runs point instead of Best, and you've got a real shot at the Finals at least. And regarding Rik, didn't he go on to play a little ball in Europe and toy briefly with a return at one point? I could maybe see him staying another year if Jax and Larry/Rick stayed.

  15. #65
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Jax runs point instead of Rose
    Fixed. Remember, that was one of his conditions of re-signing. The argument can certainly be made that Jalen would not have come back if Jax and Rick were here. And before somebody asks, I seem to remember that Detroit was willing to pay him max too.

    It took us 5 tries to get past the ECF, and the one time we did was after almost losing in the first round. I don't see how anyone can think we would have made it again by default.
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  16. #66
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
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    I just watched that game for the first time today. During that finals, I had just started a new job on second shift, so I missed the whole damn series. I never realized we were so close to winning that series.
    That's what I was saying. I saw that series, but a couple games I was side tracked with g/f and hosting issues, so I would stray from time to time trying to keep her happy and make sure friends and family were enjoying themselves.

    I knew the Lakers were suppose to and did win that series, but when I sat here and watched that Finals episode on ESPN that went game by game with all the key moments.

    When you can just sit back and relive what happened, and you hear some of the commentary, and behind the scenes stuff, it personally hit me like we could've and I honestly feel should've won that series.

    Both teams had there stars, and really good role players, with a good coaching system. It just came down to making shots, and getting stops.



    As for the Lakers not showing in Game 5, that's not completely true. That Lakers team was known for starting off games slow (As seen in Game 7 vs. Portland), and the Pacers came out firing to just take the life out of them.

  17. #67
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Fixed. Remember, that was one of his conditions of re-signing. The argument can certainly be made that Jalen would not have come back if Jax and Rick were here. And before somebody asks, I seem to remember that Detroit was willing to pay him max too.

    It took us 5 tries to get past the ECF, and the one time we did was after almost losing in the first round. I don't see how anyone can think we would have made it again by default.
    Because experience counts for a lot. So does chemistry. The experience of getting past the ECF's and into the Finals, even in a losing cause, would've been invaluable. Of course it wouldn't have been a given that we got back BUT BUT BUT BUT you don't pull the plug when the team is still rising or maintaining their standing.... you wait until you actually see a decline at least.

    You can tweak it.... But you don't 'rebuild on the fly' to try and build a contender when you are already a contender. We should've milked that team, and Reggie and MJax, until their tanks were about dry or a banner was hanging in Conseco. The sign of decline should not have been a fluke loss to NYKs in '99 or a first ever finals appearance in 2000.

    I would much rather have accepted that and a fade into memory than some of the crap we've dealt with since.

    And we never should've traded AD for Bender.
    I'm not say that we couldn't trade AD but it should've been for a player we could use while in our championship window and while in a 'win now' mode. Bender was an expensive mistake and a bust. :

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  18. #68
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Because experience counts for a lot. So does chemistry.
    Exactly. I know you and others say that we should have kept AD, but we got rid of him because he felt he should have been starting, and from his obvious disinterest in the '99 ECF, it was affecting his play. Dale was ****ed that his agent screwed him. He probably didn't appreciate Cro getting the big contract, and him being a fan favorite after one good series couldn't have helped. Jalen was beginning to cause trouble in the locker room, as Larry alluded to in his book, and if he came back with a sense of entitlement from not only his max contract but a promise to let him run point, you think Jax would have been okay with that? And we all know unhappy Jax=unhappy Reggie.

    Donnie felt there were too many obstacles in trying to keep the status quo, so he decided to rebuild around Jalen, Cro, and JO. Did it work? Hell no. But that doesn't mean everything would have worked perfectly if he hadn't, and yes, a lot of dominos would have to fall just right for us to make it back.
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  19. #69

    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    I think we milked Jackson for all he was worth. There were debates about whether he or Best should start here. Toronto signed him for however many years then traded him that same season. The Knicks had a horrible year in 2001/02. He then went to Utah when he did cause chemistry problems and then went to Houston.

    That's 4 teams in 4 years.

  20. #70

    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    i simply don't feel like the 2000 team was as good as the lakers were that year and for me, the finals were all i could really hope for and i was thrilled they finally got there.
    rik was in serious decline. 98 was his last healthy year. after that season he had his foot surgery and was never the same. the last 2 seasons, he was significantly slower (and he was never really fast to begin with) but because of his height, he was still able to contribute- just not like he used to. now lets remember that what made those teams ( all those ecf teams and the finals team) so tough was the fact rik gave us a consistent post scorer. with him retired, who is able to fill that void?. reggie can launch the 3's all he wants and jackson can play the point but, without a center who can get you some interior scoring- you are not going to the finals again. if the defense doesn't have to worry about your interior they will simply apply their focus on the middle and perimeter and those guys can't get it done by themselves or even if jalen was still around. he was good but, not a post threat.

    we had rik as our inside threat and he was pretty much it. if we kept dale around, he couldn't give the offense needed at the 4 since he was never a scorer and we would need a real center since rik was gone. so, once more- without the inside scoring- that team was not going back to the finals. if you don't have at least one big guy at the 4-5 spots who is at least a decent, reliable scorer, you are not going to do it unless you have a team that had guys like jordan AND pippen on it.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Show of hands... anybody besides BBall think we should have tried to keep the 2000 team together for longer?

    That team was done. End of story. If we'd have kept them together, we'd have won more regular season games, but that's it. And we all know that's what Bball lives for.
    Man I must really be slipping to have fallen off of your radar.

    You know my thoughts on this so, no not the end of story no matter how many times you want to say it.

    That team would have gone right back to the finals the very next year and you'll never convince me otherwise. Just like I will never convince you otherwise.


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  22. #72
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Man I must really be slipping to have fallen off of your radar.

    You know my thoughts on this so, no not the end of story no matter how many times you want to say it.

    That team would have gone right back to the finals the very next year and you'll never convince me otherwise. Just like I will never convince you otherwise.
    What team? Even without the JO-for-DD trade, please tell me the roster that you think would have reached the Finals (or even the ECFs).
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  23. #73
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    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Man I must really be slipping to have fallen off of your radar.

    You know my thoughts on this so, no not the end of story no matter how many times you want to say it.

    That team would have gone right back to the finals the very next year and you'll never convince me otherwise. Just like I will never convince you otherwise.
    If that exact same team was to be together the next season, then yes they would have had a shot at the finals.....but there lies your problem.

    It was impossible to keep that team together.

    I agree that if that exact team would have been together the next season, that it would have had a great shot to contend with the finals...but I am 99% certain that it would have been impossible to keep the team together after 2000, there was just no way that we could keep that collection of players.

    Smits was done. People can knock Smits if they want to, but watch that game 4 OT. He was in the zone. That team needed his presence.

    Ever wonder why Toronto signed Jackson to that long deal but then shipped him out that February to New York? Or why New York only kept him one season after that? Or why Utah just kept him for a year? He had nothing left. That was all to obvious in his final season here, as there was the constant Best or Jackson debate.

    Of course if Jackson comes back, Rose probably doesn't want to stay. Remember, he wanted to be the PG, as Kegboy stated.

    I believe that Rose was the single most important factor into the 2000 finals run. His emergence into a prime offensive threat was something that the Pacers had never had: A guy other than Reggie who could consistantly be counted on for 20 points a game (averaged 20.8 in the 2000 playoffs). Smits' was on fire in 1995, but unfortunately he had to go up against a young Shaq after dominating Patrick Ewing.

    I 100% believe that the reason the Pacers were never able to get over the hump prior to 2000 is because there was no one else other than Reggie who could shoulder the scoring load on a consistant basis. Shaq had Kobe, Jordan had Pippen. Who did Reggie have in 1998 or 1999 to shoulder the scoring load? Nobody. I believe that Reggie was always out of gas by the end of the ECF's in prior years to 2000 because he was simply out of gas. Too much of the scoring burden fell on him. If Rose isn't a starter in 2000, that team gets bounced in teh first round. I believe that.

    All of the sudden you have Rose as a starter in a 2000 and he is averaging 20 a game in the playoffs. Coincidentally what also happens? Reggie has his best postseason ever. Reggie is able to save his best for last in series, as he goes off for 41 against Milwaukee, and 34 to close out New York. If Rose isn't there to give Reggie scoring relief throughout series, I don't think he has enough gas to close that series out in New York in game 6.

    But hey, no one ever gives Rose credit in cyber Pacerland. He is constantly villified. No Rose, No finals. Finally having someone other than Reg who could give us 20 took us from an ECF team to a finals team.

    Wasn't there trouble with Dale Davis after 2000? Wasn't he being a P*ick or something about his contract?

    Maybe that team could have made the finals again in 2001. But let's not forget that the Bucks, who took them to 5 the year before, were a super team in 2001 and were one game away from the finals.

    I don't think it's worth dwelling over. Circumstances made keeping that team together impossible. I am a huge Walsh critic, but I don't think he deserves any blame/credit for blowing that team up. He really didn't have a choice.

  24. #74

    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    i gotta agree with you. there was no way to keep that team together. and sadly, there will be those who will refuse to believe it under ANY circumstances.
    a shame really but - it is what it is.

  25. #75

    Default Re: 1999/2000 Finals

    I'm beginning to re-examine this whole Darkside/Lightside deal. You have to be pretty optimistic to believe that 2000 team could have stayed together. (And in some cases had a chance to beat the Lakers.) Kegboy's at least remained constistant. Is he the true sith lord?
    Last edited by Arcadian; 06-15-2007 at 02:28 AM.

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