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Thread: Antoine Walker and O'B

  1. #1
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    Default Antoine Walker and O'B

    Under let's throw stuff at the wall to see if it sticks category. A discussion about unloading Walker to the Ps.


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    The Pacers do have several contracts as unpalatable as Antoine Walker's deal, which pays $8.5 million next season. The difference is Mike Dunleavy Jr. ($8.2 million next season) and Troy Murphy ($9.2 million next season) each have three additional seasons remaining. By contrast, after next season, Walker has only one additional guaranteed year on his Heat contract. And one thing the Heat has done especially well over the years is not chase bad money with even worse money. It is just one of the aspects that has separated the Heat from the Knicks. Still, when the Pacers get busy, keep in mind they will be working with a coach whose career flourished with Walker at his side.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  2. #2

    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Walker has almost nothing left. Another thread talks about Austin Croshere.

    At this point in time,

    Austin > Antoine

    sad but true

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Wow I dont want Walker. The question is would I take walker to get rid of either Murphy or Dunleavy. Walker is every bit as worthless of a player as those two but he has a shorter contract.

    I have no idea but at this point why trade one bucket of crap for another.

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    You know how some people say acquiring so and so would make me reconsider being a Pacer fan. Antoine Walker is the one player in the NBA capable of making me do that.

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    I hate Antoine Walker. I would totally take him in return for Murphy/Dunleavy, preferably Murphy (and especially if we trade JO and go young).

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Dunleavy >>>> Walker

    I hate how Dunleavy gets thrown in to these discussions. He's not a bad player he just has a bad contract. I thought his play at the end of the season was very good and he, Shawne, and Granger play very well when on the floor at the same time.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Dunleavy >>>> Walker

    I hate how Dunleavy gets thrown in to these discussions. He's not a bad player he just has a bad contract. I thought his play at the end of the season was very good and he, Shawne, and Granger play very well when on the floor at the same time.


    Agreed. But Mike will never be an asset on an NBA team. He is solid, but he doesn't add anything in particular and can be replaced fairly easily. Therefore, I am in favor of doing whatever to clear his salary off the books.

    8 million in cap room is more important to this team than a 28% 3-pt shooting SG.

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Dunleavy >>>> Walker

    I hate how Dunleavy gets thrown in to these discussions. He's not a bad player he just has a bad contract.
    According to Rakestraw last night on WTHR Dunleavy makes almost twice as much as Tinsley. Dunleavy get's thrown into discussions because the talking heads have to say or print something.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    8 million in cap room is more important to this team than a 28% 3-pt shooting SG.

    Trading Dunleavy for Walker would not save a single cent until 3 years from now and would add an absolutely horrible player who thinks he deserves lots of playing time into the mix.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Trading Dunleavy for Walker would not save a single cent until 3 years from now and would add an absolutely horrible player who thinks he deserves lots of playing time into the mix.

    It would actually be two years (instead of four for Dunleavy).

    So we would be cutting Dun's contract in half.

    I still say it is a good move, especially if we can get Miami to throw in a warm body or some second rounders or something.

    I will say that I would much prefer they take Murphy. He has four years left, also.

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    I will say that I would much prefer they take Murphy. He has four years left, also.
    thats the only scenario in which i would consider it but miami probably wouldn't. walker makes less per year than murphy and has two less years. not sure what miami gets out of it other than moving a malcontent.

    i hate crybaby walker. always have, always will. but from a financial standpoint i would at least consider murphy for walker.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Another possibility is Tinsley for Williams. Jamaal has four years left and Jason has only one.

    Maybe Jamaal and Troy for Williams and Walker? Then we would have three bad contract years instead of 8.

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Fatoine is better then Murphy and Dunleavy. I would trade those 2 for any player in the NBA with a little bit of a better contract then them, any player. If a NBA player goes to jail and he has a better contract then Dunleavy I would trade Dunleavy for that player.

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Hell no, I don't want any part of Fatoine and his declining ***. **** that.

    At his peak he was never anything special and certainly nothing Pacers fans are looking for. Now he's rapidly declined and his statistics from last year don't even reflect how terrible he looks on the floor.

    I don't want Murphy or Dunleavy and I'm already sick of them, but I don't want Fatoine under any circumstances.

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac View Post
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    Fatoine is better then Murphy and Dunleavy. I would trade those 2 for any player in the NBA with a little bit of a better contract then them, any player. If a NBA player goes to jail and he has a better contract then Dunleavy I would trade Dunleavy for that player.
    Clearly thats how Golden State felt. Of course we also gave them Al and Powell. And not to mention Jack at least has talent.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Agreed. But Mike will never be an asset on an NBA team. He is solid, but he doesn't add anything in particular and can be replaced fairly easily. Therefore, I am in favor of doing whatever to clear his salary off the books.

    8 million in cap room is more important to this team than a 28% 3-pt shooting SG.
    Are you talking bang for the buck, or just straight skill level? Dunleavy isn't a star, but to say that he can't benefit an NBA team is crazy. He's suffered from star expectation more than anything. Golden State took him sky high in the draft, and then dumped on him because he wasn't a star player. What was he supposed to do...tear up the contract because he wasn't worth it? If anything, dump on these gm's with itchy contract writing fingers. Don't blame Dunleavy for taking the money, nor for the Pacers bringing him in. He has a great all around skill set that we would greatly benefit from if used correctly. I'll bet he really blosoms under O'Brien.

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    For as much as people harp on Dunleavy being so bad if you look at stats the swap of Al for Dunleavy is pretty close to being fair.

    Al's salary 7,625,000

    Dun's salary 7,438,016

    Year Team FG% 3P% FT% Off Def Tot APG A/TO PPG
    2006-07 .458 .458 .713 2.0 4.3 6.3 1.4 2.5 15.9

    Year Team FG% 3P% FT% Off Def Tot APG A/TO PPG
    2006-07 .454 .283 .792 1.0 4.7 5.7 2.6 1.4 14.0
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    Are you talking bang for the buck, or just straight skill level? Dunleavy isn't a star, but to say that he can't benefit an NBA team is crazy. He's suffered from star expectation more than anything. Golden State took him sky high in the draft, and then dumped on him because he wasn't a star player. What was he supposed to do...tear up the contract because he wasn't worth it? If anything, dump on these gm's with itchy contract writing fingers. Don't blame Dunleavy for taking the money, nor for the Pacers bringing him in. He has a great all around skill set that we would greatly benefit from if used correctly. I'll bet he really blosoms under O'Brien.
    I certainly hope he does, and I think there is a chance. But right now he could be replaced by any number of SGs in the game, and I'm not sure that just cutting his salary wouldn't be good.

    Ever read moneyball? I think Mike can be functionally replaced by a second-year shooting guard that spent all four years in college. That would save us 6-7 million a year.

    And let me clarify:

    Can Mike be a part of a very good NBA team? Sure.

    On that theoretical very good NBA team, could he be unoticeably replaced by just about any starting shooting guard in the league? Oh yeah.

    There are only two things that make Mike distinctive: Above average rebounds for a shooting guard, and a very good ability to hit mid-range jumpers.

    I will say that a smart coach could make Mike into a mini Rip Hamilton, since the only real thing Rip can do is hit mid-range jumpers, too. So there is hope.

    But why is Mike any better than Charlie Bell? Or Luther Head? Or DeShaun Stevenson? Wouldn't you rather be paying that kind of player 1 million instead of 8 million?

  19. #19
    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    But why is Mike any better than Charlie Bell? Or Luther Head? Or DeShaun Stevenson? Wouldn't you rather be paying that kind of player 1 million instead of 8 million?
    I don't know that I would agree that Dunleavy is a 1 million dollar level player. Stevenson is athletic..nothing special. Luther Head is a good 3rd guard. Charlie Bell...about the same..nothing special. And while I don't think that Dunleavy is All-star level, I certainly wouldn't drop his value down around the level of the above mentioned players. He's worth much more. I think he struggled as a catch and shoot player somewhat..in Rick's offense. Certainly someone like a Brent Barry would have fit much better feeding off O'neal. But if we're moving O'neal and going to more of a motion offense..Dunleavy's passing ability and scoring ability fit much better.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybegood View Post
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    I don't know that I would agree that Dunleavy is a 1 million dollar level player. Stevenson is athletic..nothing special. Luther Head is a good 3rd guard. Charlie Bell...about the same..nothing special. And while I don't think that Dunleavy is All-star level, I certainly wouldn't drop his value down around the level of the above mentioned players. He's worth much more. I think he struggled as a catch and shoot player somewhat..in Rick's offense. Certainly someone like a Brent Barry would have fit much better feeding off O'neal. But if we're moving O'neal and going to more of a motion offense..Dunleavy's passing ability and scoring ability fit much better.
    I'm not necessarily saying that Dunleavy is worth a million. All I am saying is that I can find three players without much effort that are at least as good as Dunleavy that are making a million. Maybe your gut says Mike could become better, but there is no statistical evidence yet to back that up.

    Again, I hope you are right, and like I said Mike has some potential to be a Rip Hamilton-esque player. But looking at what he has proven to be so far, I see no reason to keep Mike if we have a chance to get rid of him.


    As a fan, I do hope you are proven correct.

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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B



    Dunleavy, Sr: "So Larry, how did Mike work out for you this season?"
    Bird: "I'm at the lottery, how the **** do you think it went?"


    That being said, Dunleavy is an incredibly mediocre player and I'd agree with FlavaDave's comparisons. His massive contract is what garners the most criticism - if he wasn't paid so much, then his results wouldn't seem so lackluster.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    I'd trade Trophy for Walker. In a heartbeat.
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Wow, I am really suprised at how much people dislike Antoine Walker.

    We would have Antoine for 2 years, 2 years assuming we wouldn't exercise a team opition for the 09-10 season and if that would be the case we would have him one more year after that.

    We will see Murphy and Dunleavy 4 more years each. Do the math.

    Murphy is defiantly not better than Antoine. Dunleavy and Antoine are about the same just different styles but Antoine's style and contract fits in better with this team. With OB as our coach a role player like Dunleavy won't do us that much good. Especially if we trade Jermaine for Lamar/Bynum we could really use Antoine because he can be a scorer for us.

    Antoine hasn't filled up the stat sheet in Miami but what do you expect? He is playing with Dwyane Wade and Shaqiule O'Neal, two of the most ball dominate players in the NBA. Walker is player who needs the ball himself.

    This team is looking like we are re building. You know that OB and Bird still want to make the playoffs though and Walker can help us do that.

    IMO, Walker can help us more than Dunleavy or Murphy.

    We still would have a problem with an overload of forwards but atleast we will only have that problem for 2 years instead of 4.

    People just need to get over their dislike for Walker. You can't dislike him as much as I grew to dislike Artest. Walker isn't my favorite player by any means but given who our new coach is and knowing the style he wants to play (and the contract status) we defiantly should try and get Walker for Murphy or Dunleavy.

    Let me go on record by saying I don't think it will ever happen unless it is Murphy, then MAYBE the Pacers would do it. But I don't think the Heat have any use for Murphy and I can't see Donnie or Larry trading Dunleavy after half a season unless OB really wants to.

  24. #24
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Walker shot 40% and 28% last season, Murphy shot 46% and 40%. Murphy also didn't get suspended for failing a physical.

    No. Thank. You.

    [edit] Also, as for the notion that he needs to ball to be effective, Shaq and Wade were hurt this year. He shot 44% and 36% the previous season when they were healthy. And I just looked at his FT%. 44% last year, 64% for his career.

    Again. No. Thank. You.
    Last edited by Kegboy; 06-04-2007 at 03:32 PM.
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  25. #25
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Antoine Walker and O'B

    Walker's a 3 time all-star, NBA Champion, 10th all time in 3 pointers made, his diminished stats are still as good as MDJ's best years and he has 60 playoff games under belt. He has 2 more guaranteed years left on his contract and has a relationship with the coach. I see no downsides. I also don't see why the Heat would touch MDJ or Troy.

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