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Thread: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

  1. #76
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    like a good hangover/headache...I'm going to go to bed and all this will just go away. There is no way that we are going to get that bent over. There can't be.
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  2. #77

    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    If it comes down to it, for me atleast, Lamar Odom does not have to be included. Andrew Bynum does.

    I would say if no Odom in the deal then go for something like this.

    Pacers Get:
    - Andrew Bynum (2.1 million next year)
    - Kwame Brown (9 million)
    - Brian Cook (3.5 million)
    - 07 1rst Round Draft Pick, plus 2 future 1rsts
    - Cash (3 million)

    Lakers Get:
    - Jermaine O'Neal (19.7 million)

    That would be about the only deal that would work without Lamar Odom. No way that the Pacers take on Vladimir unless the Lakers take Dunleavy or Murphy.

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    i think dd is correct - lakers no doubt would prefer not to give up both bynum and odom.

    from pacers viewpoint though, i would insist on bynum + shedding salary - which is numerically possible only if both odom and kwame are in the deal.

    so who blinks first? my guess is that a compromise would be reached, where lakers give up all we ask (bynum, odom, kwame, 1st) but get back some additional assets as well (chiefly, foster). here's one possible scenario:

    pacers trade:
    jermaine
    foster
    dunleavy (i think lakers would prefer dun over murph or tins)
    harrison

    for:
    bynum
    lamar
    kwame
    #19
    filler (cook/evans/vujacic)

    foster also makes sense because lakers are trading away all their big men in the scenario.
    I totally agree. To me Murph and Bynum are the 2 things that must happen if you do this deal, and if you get the #19 as well and have a shot at Law so much the better.

    Then you suck next year (seems extremely likely) and pick up a pretty solid PG in the 2008 draft.

    The goal is playoffs 08-09 and contender 09-10, at least in my opinion. I don't think the team would have to be down as long as Able fears (though his concern is 100% legit when you look at other "rebuilds") because they do have a quality group of players that have showed some improvement, and it would appear to be a balanced group if it goes as I suggest (meaning you add a PG and SG in the next 2 drafts).


    I think I'm a bit more in the salary dump camp, moving Murph and distributing JO's cost over a few players puts the team in a better position to adjust. The fact is that with the current payroll they did NOT make the playoffs. I love JO and hate him being moved, but if this team has reached the end of the road as configured then they absolutely need to reduce costs.

    Staying put IMO means no playoffs for years to come anyway. Obviously some fans feel better about the current group and aren't as bothered by the financials, so they aren't that interested in seeing JO moved or perhaps many moves at all. I just think TPTB turned down a dead-end and are looking to bite the bullet in order to get out.

  4. #79

    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Bynum, Odom, and Farmar have to be included.

    I just can't see the Lakers accepting Tinsley, since he seems to be the polar opposite of everything Phil Jackson seeks in a triangle offense point guard.

    Tinsley can't shoot worth a lick and needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He's the anti-triangle.
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I totally agree. To me Murph and Bynum are the 2 things that must happen if you do this deal, and if you get the #19 as well and have a shot at Law so much the better.

    Then you suck next year (seems extremely likely) and pick up a pretty solid PG in the 2008 draft.

    The goal is playoffs 08-09 and contender 09-10, at least in my opinion. I don't think the team would have to be down as long as Able fears (though his concern is 100% legit when you look at other "rebuilds") because they do have a quality group of players that have showed some improvement, and it would appear to be a balanced group if it goes as I suggest (meaning you add a PG and SG in the next 2 drafts).


    I think I'm a bit more in the salary dump camp, moving Murph and distributing JO's cost over a few players puts the team in a better position to adjust. The fact is that with the current payroll they did NOT make the playoffs. I love JO and hate him being moved, but if this team has reached the end of the road as configured then they absolutely need to reduce costs.

    Staying put IMO means no playoffs for years to come anyway. Obviously some fans feel better about the current group and aren't as bothered by the financials, so they aren't that interested in seeing JO moved or perhaps many moves at all. I just think TPTB turned down a dead-end and are looking to bite the bullet in order to get out.
    i'd like to move murphy but i don't know how likely it is - though more likely to the lakers than dunleavy because they have walton who is essentially the same player but with a better 3pt shot. but the JO trade needs to happen for all of the reasons you suggested, along with his decreasing value as more injuries and age take their toll. i think the perspective we have to take as an organization is: we're probably not going to be in the playoffs or at least be in them very long for the next few years, lets get a head start on rebuilding.

    i would argue though that at #19 law won't be available (too many teams in the 10-18 range that would need a PG....clips come to mind).
    This is the darkest timeline.

  6. #81

    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    If we do acquire Lamar Odom, I'd try to send him to Milwaukee for the 6th pick. This would give us a shot at drafting Corey Brewer or Mike Conley. We would likely have to take on Bobby Simmons' contract to make that happen, which is 2 years longer and a lot less productive.
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by himikey View Post
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    If we do acquire Lamar Odom, I'd try to send him to Milwaukee for the 6th pick. This would give us a shot at drafting Corey Brewer or Mike Conley. We would likely have to take on Bobby Simmons' contract to make that happen, which is 2 years longer and a lot less productive.
    better to the celtics for theo's exp. and the #5. celts would probably do it for the same reasons they'd want JO.
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    The Lakers fans on RealGM have gotten wind of these two proposals and are practically laughing at us for considering taking either one, especially the second offer.

  9. #84
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh4d3 View Post
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    The Lakers fans on RealGM have gotten wind of these two proposals and are practically laughing at us for considering taking either one, especially the second offer.
    PHEW! glad I'm not the only one then.
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  10. #85
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The goal is playoffs 08-09 and contender 09-10, at least in my opinion. I don't think the team would have to be down as long as Able fears (though his concern is 100% legit when you look at other "rebuilds") because they do have a quality group of players that have showed some improvement, and it would appear to be a balanced group if it goes as I suggest (meaning you add a PG and SG in the next 2 drafts).
    yup.

    the difference between a long rebuild and a short one is really down to the gm moves. draft the right players, get the right free agents, and bingo, you're back in the playoffs. of course, luck sometimes factors in (like if you win the draft lottery), but surprisingly not very often.

    it should be noted that donnie walsh has faced a similar situation before - the famous rebuild-on-the-fly. back then, the outlook was nearly as bad as it is now, but the team did get back to contender status within 3 seasons, however briefly it lasted. let's see if tptb can recreate that magic.

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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    yup.

    the difference between a long rebuild and a short one is really down to the gm moves. draft the right players, get the right free agents, and bingo, you're back in the playoffs. of course, luck sometimes factors in (like if you win the draft lottery), but surprisingly not very often.

    it should be noted that donnie walsh has faced a similar situation before - the famous rebuild-on-the-fly. back then, the outlook was nearly as bad as it is now, but the team did get back to contender status within 3 seasons, however briefly it lasted. let's see if tptb can recreate that magic.
    Reggie came out on the mic before the 00-01 home opener and asked the fans to ride it out and stay with them and he promised that while it might not go well that they would at least bring the effort.

    So yeah, that outlook wasn't too good even from a player's perspective. I think JO surprised them (and me to be honest).

  12. #87
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh4d3 View Post
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    The Lakers fans on RealGM have gotten wind of these two proposals and are practically laughing at us for considering taking either one, especially the second offer.
    Laughing as in they think they would be taking advantage of us? Or laughing as in they would never give up those players for JO? I was reading some other Lakers forum and they seemed to think that JO wasnt worth much.

  13. #88
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I totally agree. To me Murph and Bynum are the 2 things that must happen if you do this deal, and if you get the #19 as well and have a shot at Law so much the better.

    Then you suck next year (seems extremely likely) and pick up a pretty solid PG in the 2008 draft.

    The goal is playoffs 08-09 and contender 09-10, at least in my opinion. I don't think the team would have to be down as long as Able fears (though his concern is 100% legit when you look at other "rebuilds") because they do have a quality group of players that have showed some improvement, and it would appear to be a balanced group if it goes as I suggest (meaning you add a PG and SG in the next 2 drafts).


    I think I'm a bit more in the salary dump camp, moving Murph and distributing JO's cost over a few players puts the team in a better position to adjust. The fact is that with the current payroll they did NOT make the playoffs. I love JO and hate him being moved, but if this team has reached the end of the road as configured then they absolutely need to reduce costs.

    Staying put IMO means no playoffs for years to come anyway. Obviously some fans feel better about the current group and aren't as bothered by the financials, so they aren't that interested in seeing JO moved or perhaps many moves at all. I just think TPTB turned down a dead-end and are looking to bite the bullet in order to get out.
    I am running the #s and I can't come up with any trade that includes Murphy where we do not get every player NOT named Odom or Kobe.

    It would pretty much boil down to JONeal+Murphy for ( pretty much ) the majority of the Lakers roster MINUS Odom and Kobe. On top of that...we would have to take back VladRad's contract that is owed $6-6.8 mil per year until 2010. The only other scenarios that work would be ones involving S&T of Smush Parker and/or Chris Mihm.

    Honestly....I would hope to wait until the draft to see if anyone else can beat that.
    Last edited by CableKC; 06-01-2007 at 02:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    I went to some Lakers forum and they think that Orien should be their staring PG if the trade happens. LOLING

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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    At the end of the day, we're never going to get 'talent' that many PD fans think is equal to JO. That's because this board generally has an inflated value attached to him. A more realistic assessment has to include his shortcomings. For example, he's not really a low-post player. He's a back-to-the-basket, turn-around jump shooter who incidentally shoots a low percentage on his primary shot. He's often out of position so he isn't a strong offensive rebounder. Yes, he blocks a lot of shots but he plays defense with his hands instead of his feet. He doesn't make the players around him better. He's not a 'team leader' as far as anyone can tell. Oh, and "no", I don't hate him. I'm just listing his 'negatives' because it's important when determining fair trade. The bottom line: JO's not worth both Odom and Bynum. If TPTB want either of them, then a deal can be made. Otherwise, it's not going to happen.

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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac View Post
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    I went to some Lakers forum and they think that Orien should be their staring PG if the trade happens. LOLING
    Ok maybe Id actually like to see this trade go down now, just so I could see that debacle. Yes I hate the Lakers that much.

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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    I could start at PG for the Lakers with JO and Kobe on the same team.

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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by madison View Post
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    At the end of the day, we're never going to get 'talent' that many PD fans think is equal to JO. That's because this board generally has an inflated value attached to him. A more realistic assessment has to include his shortcomings. For example, he's not really a low-post player. He's a back-to-the-basket, turn-around jump shooter who incidentally shoots a low percentage on his primary shot. He's often out of position so he isn't a strong offensive rebounder. Yes, he blocks a lot of shots but he plays defense with his hands instead of his feet. He doesn't make the players around him better. He's not a 'team leader' as far as anyone can tell. Oh, and "no", I don't hate him. I'm just listing his 'negatives' because it's important when determining fair trade. The bottom line: JO's not worth both Odom and Bynum. If TPTB want either of them, then a deal can be made. Otherwise, it's not going to happen.
    That's all true. I'm not a JO hater either...in fact he used to be my favorite player on the team. ...but the truth simply cannot be denied.

    JO only plays 55-60 games a year where half of them are on one leg. Whether it's his ankle, knee, leg or shoulder...he is terribly prone to injury. I cannot see him ever playing more than 70 games, and that's simply not enough for an 18+M/yr franchise player. ...and it could get much worse if he pulls a Bender and decides to retire before he cannot walk any longer.

    ...and related to your assessment, JO is not exactly a "banger" ala Carlos Boozer. He will never shoot for a high percentage until he's willing to go through and over guys to stuff it....and that will never happen. JO fears reinjuring that right shoulder too much.

    JO has quickness and length, but certainly not the toughness to really dominate the paint. Remember how Kenyon Martin used to man handle him? Kenyon would beat him up and shut him down anytime he wanted to. That's really the problem with JO. He is able to out quick some players to dominate, but he is generally pretty soft.

  19. #94
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    Default Re: Real trade offers Lakers for JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac View Post
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    I could start at PG for the Lakers with JO and Kobe on the same team.
    I bet...and I bet you wouldn't touch the ball at all...lol
    it's gonna be a 2 man show...It's going to be hillarious
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